This Is What a Good GM Looks Like - Elway vs. Whaley

[LeGOATski]

Is it true that Whaley wanted to hire Hue Jackson, but the Pegulas wanted Rex?

No idea, but Whaley took credit for being part of the hiring process when it happened. Take that for what it's worth.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Whaley wanted someone else, initially, but was persuaded by the Pegulas and Russ to get behind Rex.

 

Not really worth speculating on.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You're right. I stand down. Poor put-upon Doug Whaley has assembled a Super Bowl roster. It isn't his fault that he lacks the gravitas to stand up to the Trumpian force that is the Pegulas, or to Hurricane Rex and the Rexettes. He is a leader ready to emerge as soon as he grows a pair.

 

Now this is just dorky, the posting equivalent of Roman's play-call on 4th down

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The problem with Whaley is that he has not been given the full GM role yet (As far as being the only one to hire, manage and dismiss the HC; the direct reporting relationship is not there). Upfront he should have been given those responsibilities, but he wasn't (Russ was calling the shots, whether intentional or not he was the "owner"). Whaley has real no "power" in this organization other than being in charge of scouting (pro and college).If the Pegulas gave it to him when Marrone left, fine; but they didn't. All you can grade him on is the talent he brings in and even that is dependent on if the coaches can grow a player or not.

 

I can't find an up-to-date article about it, but the bottom line is that the NFL is not uniform on what a "full GM role" means. In some franchises, the GM role is as you say, with the coach reporting to the GM.

In other franchises, the coach and GM both report to the President/CEO. In some franchises, the coach has control over the 53 man roster and the GM is basically a talent scout.

 

Since some of the teams using each model are successful, I don't think we can say which is the "full" or "best" GM role is.

[Reed83HOF]

 

I can't find an up-to-date article about it, but the bottom line is that the NFL is not uniform on what a "full GM role" means. In some franchises, the GM role is as you say, with the coach reporting to the GM.

In other franchises, the coach and GM both report to the President/CEO. In some franchises, the coach has control over the 53 man roster and the GM is basically a talent scout.

 

Since some of the teams using each model are successful, I don't think we can say which is the "full" or "best" GM role is.

 

It obviously depends on the owner some are meddling, others aren't. You generally end up in a bad situation when you have both reporting to the owner; history is littered with these examples. For the Bills, they need a powerful and respected GM coming in, hiring his own coach and running the football side of the business. The other approach has been in place here and is part of the reason why we have issues...

[CardinalScotts]

quit pointing out these werent whaley's picks i doesn't fit the arguement

 

 

your off the mark and wrong

[sullim4]

I'm convinced that this team could have drafted Andrew Luck and we'd still be cellar dwellers. Likewise, who knows, EJ could have been drafted by a competent organization and might be starting QB material.

 

We have never had a coaching staff capable of developing young players. When you're in a situation like that, quite honestly, we could have every single first round pick in a single draft and STILL strike out most of the time.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Sorry man, disagree with almost everything you say here, or disagree with the comparisons. Jerry Hughes is/has been Justin Houston, no one would argue he is JJ Watt. Clay is tough to judge given the performance of our OC and QB. Watkins, same thing (although the injuries are getting annoying, but not sure any GM could predict that).

 

But now you're nit-picking individual players and comparing them to the absolute best at their position. No team has GREAT players at every position. But we do have plenty of strong players. As many as most other teams.

Not to pick on you but ... no, Jerry Hughes is not Justin Houston. He has never come within .5 sack of the all-time season record. Maybe someone like Chandler Jones is a good comp. Hughes is not the kind of guy who can singlehandedly disrupt the opposition's passing game. Overrating our own players is one thing for the fans, but it looks to me like management does it too and has unrealistic expectations for what a Jerry Hughes or a Charles Clay can do.

Edited September 18, 2016 by The Frankish Reich

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Let's focus on homegrown - drafted or undrafted free agents - currently on each team's roster. Offensive/Defensive Starters in Week 1 (2016) in bold:

 

Broncos:

 

- 1st round picks: 6. Demaryius Thomas, Von Miller, Sylvester Williams, Shane Ray, Bradley Roby, Paxton Lynch

 

- 2nd round picks: 4. Derek Wolfe, Cody Latimer, Ty Sambrailo, Adam Gotsis

 

- 3rd round picks: 4 Jeff Heuerman, Michael Scofield, Kayvon Webster, Justin Simmons

 

- 4th round picks: 2 Devontae Booker, Max Garcia

 

- 5th round picks: 2 Connor McGovern, Lorenzo Doss

 

- 6th round picks: 4 Andy Janovich, Matt Paradis, Darius Kilgo, Will Parks

 

- 7th round picks: 4 Trevor Siemien, Virgil Green, Corey Nelson, Riley Dixon

 

- UDFA: 13 CJ Anderson, Kapri Bibbs, Bennie Fowler, Jordan Norwood, Jordan Taylor, Shaq Barrett, Chris Harris Jr, Darian Stewart, Darrion Weems, Kyle Peko, Todd Davis, Brandon McManus, Zaire Anderson

 

13 of 22 opening week starters were drafted or signed by the Broncos. A total of 39 homegrown players on the roster.

 

Bills:

 

1st round picks: 6 EJ, Dareus*, Watkins, Glenn, Wood, Gilmore (*counted as a starter although suspended)

 

2nd round picks: 5 Woods, Miller, Koundjio, Aaron Williams, Darby

 

3rd round picks: 4 Goodwin, Miller, Alphonso, Preston Brown

 

4th round picks: 2 Cardale, Duke

 

5th round picks: 3 J Williams, Kyle Williams, Meeks

 

6th round picks: 1 O'Leary

 

7th round picks: 2 Seymour, Seantrel

 

UDFA: 2 Albright, Robey-Coleman

 

That's 13 starters, just like the Broncos, but a total of only 25 homegrown players. In particular, look at the low-round (6th/7th) and UDFA starters. The Broncos start 7 such guys, including major contributors like CJ Anderson and Chris Harris Jr. The Bills start zero. And there's tons of homegrown depth on the Broncos. Not so much on the Bills.

 

Whaley has to do better on that front. Actually, I think he has to be gone.

 

 

 

 

Elway has been great but who can we get to do as good of a job as him?

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Elway has been great but who can we get to do as good of a job as him?

I vote for the Buffalo Barbarian. Or maybe the Frankish Reich. We seem to think we know an awful lot ...

[The Frankish Reich]

By the way, since he's at the top of Barbarian's prospect sig line -- I love watching Christian McCaffrey. Absolutely every time he touches the ball I expect something big to happen. I don't know if he'll be one of those great college players whose skills don't quite translate to the NFL, but every week he plays I find myself more and more convinced that he will excel.

[CommonCents]

By the way, since he's at the top of Barbarian's prospect sig line -- I love watching Christian McCaffrey. Absolutely every time he touches the ball I expect something big to happen. I don't know if he'll be one of those great college players whose skills don't quite translate to the NFL, but every week he plays I find myself more and more convinced that he will excel.

A prettier version of Danny Woodhead at the next level. Fun to watch.

[The Frankish Reich]

A prettier version of Danny Woodhead at the next level. Fun to watch.

I don't know. Danny Woodhead is certainly pretty I guess. But I can't see a downside below an Anglo Reggie Bush -- the Saints version, not this imposter in a Reggie Bush jersey. And the upside? Really hard to tell, but his skills as a receiver are impressive too. A Julian Edelman if a team chooses to use him that way? You just want to get the ball in his hands about 15 times a game and good things will happen.

[DrDawkinstein]

Not to pick on you but ... no, Jerry Hughes is not Justin Houston. He has never come within .5 sack of the all-time season record. Maybe someone like Chandler Jones is a good comp. Hughes is not the kind of guy who can singlehandedly disrupt the opposition's passing game. Overrating our own players is one thing for the fans, but it looks to me like management does it too and has unrealistic expectations for what a Jerry Hughes or a Charles Clay can do.

 

No picking taken

 

If this franchise could ever get some coaching stability (with coaches worth stabilizing around) Jerry Hughes would be mentioned right up there with the best at the position. Hughes, Houston, and Miller are all the same size, same age, and play the same game.

 

Houston and Miller have benefited by not changing Coordinators and schemes every year, and having coaches that utilize them to the best of their abilities. It's all about putting guys in positions to succeed, and the Bills just don't do that consistently.

 

I'll give you that Hughes hasn't had their success yet, but I feel swapping them around through their different franchises would yield the same result at each team.

[Nick the Greek]

Whaley had no part in drafting Kyle Williams.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I vote for the Buffalo Barbarian. Or maybe the Frankish Reich. We seem to think we know an awful lot ...

 

Yep we would look good with Wentz