Fan in Chicago Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 yea, i think this is a spot where there are two sides of the coin..... he was a good enough OC to be among the highest paid, came with a bit of track record, and did accomplish a bump --- but there were issues and questions too. To the naked eye, every coordinator will have his strengths and flaws. It is easy to reconcile a coordinator being fired when his unit hasnt been doing very well. But we will find out by mid-season if the flaws were due to Roman or due to the players (McCoy, TT, Clay). And I dont mean the next 2 games - every new coordinator manages a bump upwards due to the opposing team's unfamiliarity wit his schemes. We need to judge Lynn and the offense after about 6-8 games.
The Big Cat Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Not sure I understand the question. I definitely agree that players should be held accountable and that coaches unfairly take the blame. Re the Jets game, there was lot of single coverage by corners that simply didn't work. In my unprofessional opinion, they seemed to be thinking that if they stopped the run (which they did a somewhat decent job except around the goal line), Fitz wouldn't be able to beat him. Based on his past history vs. Rex, that made sense. It's not how it played out in the game though. The single coverage didn't hold up when he consistently made accurate throws to a good cast of receivers. The question was: when are players accountable for getting beat? Your answer: they should have had safety help. Am I getting that? All reliable analysts (YardsPerPass, Cover1, Sal) have crunched the all-22's and come out and said that scheme wasn't an issue, that adjustments were being made throughout the game, but losing one on one matchups is what cost the defense. How do you respond to that?
dave mcbride Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 The question was: when are players accountable for getting beat? Your answer: they should have had safety help. Am I getting that? All reliable analysts (YardsPerPass, Cover1, Sal) have crunched the all-22's and come out and said that scheme wasn't an issue, that adjustments were being made throughout the game, but losing one on one matchups is what cost the defense. How do you respond to that? I saw very little safety help on the deeper throws. Were my eyes deceiving me? Honestly, if the basic plan was to stop the run and take away shorter passes while playing the odds that Fitz would stink on deeper throws, that's actually not a bad bet given past experience. It simply didn't work. Fitz played lights out and was extremely accurate. So yeah, the CBs didn't win their one-on-one matchups, but it was as much good performance by the offense as bad performance by them overall. Again, it seemed to me that they wanted to make Fitz beat them on deeper stuff. That approach has always worked for Rex in the past. Not on Thursday though.
Bill from NYC Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 If they are so awful, please explain how the franchise won 17 games in the last two seasons. Mediocre? Absolutely. Awful is taking it too far. IMOSure 26! Last year they won 8 games. And, they did it with 21 qb sacks, more than a 60% decline. Dareus was often back in coverage and sometimes when he was not, he was often standing around the LOS jumping and dancing. Rex couldn't even get production from Mario Williams in a 4/3. WE had 54 sacks before Rex got here. How many do you expect this seaon? How about the seemingly non-stop penalties? And btw, did Gilmore even try last week? These are just some of the ways Rex destroyed the team, and none are OK. This team is now, imo, awful. I said it before the season started. Whaley had a few good draft picks. Great!!! Fine thanks, but he also continues to overpay some players and peddle away draft picks. I make the case that we need a coach and a GM who are good at their jobs Bro. Whaley and Rex ARE simply awful imo.
thebandit27 Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Sure 26! Last year they won 8 games. And, they did it with 21 qb sacks, more than a 60% decline. Dareus was often back in coverage and sometimes when he was not, he was often standing around the LOS jumping and dancing. Rex couldn't even get production from Mario Williams in a 4/3. WE had 54 sacks before Rex got here. How many do you expect this seaon? How about the seemingly non-stop penalties? And btw, did Gilmore even try last week? These are just some of the ways Rex destroyed the team, and none are OK. This team is now, imo, awful. I said it before the season started. Whaley had a few good draft picks. Great!!! Fine thanks, but he also continues to overpay some players and peddle away draft picks. I make the case that we need a coach and a GM who are good at their jobs Bro. Whaley and Rex ARE simply awful imo. Not sure how you define "often", but just for reference, Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 5 times in 2015. http://www.cover1.net/2016/02/20161212015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line/
Coach Tuesday Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 I saw very little safety help on the deeper throws. Were my eyes deceiving me? Honestly, if the basic plan was to stop the run and take away shorter passes while playing the odds that Fitz would stink on deeper throws, that's actually not a bad bet given past experience. It simply didn't work. Fitz played lights out and was extremely accurate. So yeah, the CBs didn't win their one-on-one matchups, but it was as much good performance by the offense as bad performance by them overall. Again, it seemed to me that they wanted to make Fitz beat them on deeper stuff. That approach has always worked for Rex in the past. Not on Thursday though. That's what I saw as well. Fitz played out of his mind and he's willing to throw it up and let his receivers make plays. That said, to my mind the issue was the passrush - I don't care about sacks, but Fitz wasn't forced to move and reset as much as he should've been given his deficiencies when he has to do that kind of thing. That's where the adjustments were needed.
The Big Cat Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 That's what I saw as well. Fitz played out of his mind and he's willing to throw it up and let his receivers make plays. That said, to my mind the issue was the passrush - I don't care about sacks, but Fitz wasn't forced to move and reset as much as he should've been given his deficiencies when he has to do that kind of thing. That's where the adjustments were needed. Okay. But how are you going to make those adjustments? Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly always has. If you send the house, he's very good at throwing into the blitz to the open receives. Always has been. They're without Dareus, Hughes spent time on the bench and by now I think it's clear that Shaq will be an upgrade. Where could they have done better on 1v1 matchups? So what is it? You can't just say ME WANT PASS RUSH and not substantiate how you'd do it without further exposing your players who couldn't win a 1v1 matchup to save their lives.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Okay. But how are you going to make those adjustments? Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly always has. If you send the house, he's very good at throwing into the blitz to the open receives. Always has been. They're without Dareus, Hughes spent time on the bench and by now I think it's clear that Shaq will be an upgrade. Where could they have done better on 1v1 matchups? So what is it? You can't just say ME WANT PASS RUSH and not substantiate how you'd do it without further exposing your players who couldn't win a 1v1 matchup to save their lives. I don't know man - I'm not paid to run a defense and I'm no expert on how to do it. One approach is to use the a-gaps to create chaos right in front of the QB's face - let him have to move left or right and re-set before throwing. You can leave your corners off a bit and get the safeties out of the box. You might give up the easy 6-8 yard throw but then you rely on your backend defenders to make the tackle short of the sticks. It certainly wasn't working to leave the corners in straight man and to give Fitz time to survey and throw downfield. Rex has never had a problem manufacturing pressure against a passing game looking for shots downfield, as opposed to the Patriots' 2.5-seconds-or-less release.
Gordio Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Can't argue with that, but this is Rex's last gasp effort to make it work. I do think the defense improved a lot and will continue to get better. But the offense was a concern and a change needed to be made. Granted there's less than 50% chance it will get better, but staying status quo was worse. As I said before it's relative to the expectation. To the naked eye, the offense regressed. Apparently it also regressed to the inside eye as well. The offense carried this team last year, but needed to get better to get them over the hump. How can you possibly say that after watching old noodle arm throw for nearly 400 yards against us Thursday night?
ALF Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Anthony Lynn 28 carries for 177 yards playing career. http://www.nfl.com/player/anthonylynn/2501823/profile RB coach. Maybe he's over qualified to be OC
K-9 Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Anthony Lynn 28 carries for 177 yards playing career. http://www.nfl.com/player/anthonylynn/2501823/profile RB coach. Maybe he's over qualified to be OC This strikes me as a bit specious. Take any of the top OCs today or in history, by whatever criteria you choose, and you'll see a profound lack of impact as a player at any level, let alone the NFL. Or that their previous position coaching jobs weren't indicative of anything. All that matters is what he observed and absorbed during all those meetings over the years and whether he can scheme that knowledge in a way that relates to his players. None of it matters anyway if TT doesn't get his head out of his a$$.
boyst Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Sure 26! Last year they won 8 games. And, they did it with 21 qb sacks, more than a 60% decline. Dareus was often back in coverage and sometimes when he was not, he was often standing around the LOS jumping and dancing. Rex couldn't even get production from Mario Williams in a 4/3. WE had 54 sacks before Rex got here. How many do you expect this seaon? How about the seemingly non-stop penalties? And btw, did Gilmore even try last week? These are just some of the ways Rex destroyed the team, and none are OK. This team is now, imo, awful. I said it before the season started. Whaley had a few good draft picks. Great!!! Fine thanks, but he also continues to overpay some players and peddle away draft picks. I make the case that we need a coach and a GM who are good at their jobs Bro. Whaley and Rex ARE simply awful imo. this. What rex did this team is awful Okay. But how are you going to make those adjustments? Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly always has. If you send the house, he's very good at throwing into the blitz to the open receives. Always has been. They're without Dareus, Hughes spent time on the bench and by now I think it's clear that Shaq will be an upgrade. Where could they have done better on 1v1 matchups? So what is it? You can't just say ME WANT PASS RUSH and not substantiate how you'd do it without further exposing your players who couldn't win a 1v1 matchup to save their lives.you make it sound impossible it would have been easy to stop fitz Anthony Lynn 28 carries for 177 yards playing career. http://www.nfl.com/player/anthonylynn/2501823/profile RB coach. Maybe he's over qualified to be OC George siefert: 79% completion, 63,254 yards back when passing was hardBelichick: avg 1000 carries for 7 yrs and topped 2,000 yards and 30 TDs back to back seasons. Lombardi: 6 straight years recording 15+ sacks and has 21 INT's for a DT in his 11 yr career for the Rams Parcells: 23 yrs at safety, NFL's fastest man 4 times. 4 yrs straight having 5+ returns for TD's and 5+ pick sixes. Has over 2000 tackles on his career, once chasing down Bo Jackson 93 yards for a strip tackle fumble
4merper4mer Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Okay. But how are you going to make those adjustments? Fitz gets rid of the ball quickly always has. If you send the house, he's very good at throwing into the blitz to the open receives. Always has been. They're without Dareus, Hughes spent time on the bench and by now I think it's clear that Shaq will be an upgrade. Where could they have done better on 1v1 matchups? So what is it? You can't just say ME WANT PASS RUSH and not substantiate how you'd do it without further exposing your players who couldn't win a 1v1 matchup to save their lives. Are there other QBs we will face this season that are as impossible to beat as Fitz? We Have 3 west coast trips facing Carr, Wilson and whoever plays for the Rams. Should we save on flight costs and just forfeit? Will any other team in the league be able to beat the impermeable Fitz without 11 future HOFers on their D? Geez dude what a joke. How many years in a row will it be all the players' fault?
The Big Cat Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 this. What rex did this team is awful you make it sound impossible it would have been easy to stop fitz George siefert: 79% completion, 63,254 yards back when passing was hard Belichick: avg 1000 carries for 7 yrs and topped 2,000 yards and 30 TDs back to back seasons. Lombardi: 6 straight years recording 15+ sacks and has 21 INT's for a DT in his 11 yr career for the Rams Parcells: 23 yrs at safety, NFL's fastest man 4 times. 4 yrs straight having 5+ returns for TD's and 5+ pick sixes. Has over 2000 tackles on his career, once chasing down Bo Jackson 93 yards for a strip tackle fumble Some times players just have phenomenal games. I understand that Fitz is somewhat of a punchline around here, but you don't get to be a streaky QB without catching fire every once in a while. He did big time on TNF and he never cooled off. Pair that with a very big, talented, veteran savvy receiving corps and two CBs that timed their worst collective performance juuuuuuuust right and then suddenly, yes, stopping Fitz was impossible. Are there other QBs we will face this season that are as impossible to beat as Fitz? We Have 3 west coast trips facing Carr, Wilson and whoever plays for the Rams. Should we save on flight costs and just forfeit? Will any other team in the league be able to beat the impermeable Fitz without 11 future HOFers on their D? Geez dude what a joke. How many years in a row will it be all the players' fault? Well you're setting up a pretty weak strawman here, so instead I'll ask you: do you think Fitz played well? When will it stop being the players' fault? When they stop sucking, probably.
4merper4mer Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Some times players just have phenomenal games. I understand that Fitz is somewhat of a punchline around here, but you don't get to be a streaky QB without catching fire every once in a while. He did big time on TNF and he never cooled off. Pair that with a very big, talented, veteran savvy receiving corps and two CBs that timed their worst collective performance juuuuuuuust right and then suddenly, yes, stopping Fitz was impossible. IYHO Rex designed a good game plan and made proper adjustments on Thursday?
The Big Cat Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Or perhaps our defense and defensive coaching sucks? By the way, is it some sort of coincidence our players on defense starting sucking as soon as Rex and co got here? Hahahahaha good one. Right, NOBODY has ever has their druthers with Gilmore before. IYHO Rex designed a good game plan and made proper adjustments on Thursday? Find me an all-22 that says otherwise.
boyst Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Some times players just have phenomenal games. I understand that Fitz is somewhat of a punchline around here, but you don't get to be a streaky QB without catching fire every once in a while. He did big time on TNF and he never cooled off. Pair that with a very big, talented, veteran savvy receiving corps and two CBs that timed their worst collective performance juuuuuuuust right and then suddenly, yes, stopping Fitz was impossible. Well you're setting up a pretty weak strawman here, so instead I'll ask you: do you think Fitz played well? When will it stop being the players' fault? When they stop sucking, probably. Anyone going into tnag game not realizing it was going to be a pass and catch exhibition of a decent qb and two big WR's that are very good is on drugs. We have no pass rush to a better OL than our DL. Even with Dareus little would ha e changed because our LB's had to stay home to stop forte. As this is how the retard Ryan's stop offense. Next take in to our inept safeties ability to get beat like a plow mule and see that they were pulled down too much. I said walking in to the game and before I wish I had Fitz on my fantasy team.
4merper4mer Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Find me an all-22 that says otherwise. So unless someone can prove a negative you will continue to think that Rex makes good plans and adjustments? Not since his mom has someone used such a forgiving standard with Rex.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 So unless someone can prove a negative you will continue to think that Rex makes good plans and adjustments? Not since his mom has someone used such a forgiving standard with Rex. Big Cat always sides with the coach. He's a management-over-labor guy.
Bill from NYC Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Not sure how you define "often", but just for reference, Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 5 times in 2015. http://www.cover1.net/2016/02/20161212015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line/ Bro, what about the dancing and waving. The guy probably weighs between 340 and 350 lbs. Are you really going to tell me that you approve of the way our 350 million dollar front 4 was used last season?
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