Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 An OC that draws up slants and over-the-middle patterns and the smarts to utilize his talent properly to get match-ups, and a QB with the guts to anticipate and throw them open, were the main differences. I was one of those people that wouldnt swap Fitz for Tyrod. Was. Last week. After seeing Fitz throw it to guys that weren't open, but were going to come open. And after watching Tyrod hold the ball until guys were wide open, then pat it, then throw it... I'd take Fitz right now. The only reason I wouldnt is because we know what Fitz is and he isnt the long term solution or clutch player, but so far neither it Tyrod. That, I can definitely agree with. No one made plays (outside of the forced fumble and return). We certainly have a Von Miller in Jerry Hughes, no one has a "Gronk". I remember you giving me a bunch of guff about that. Glad to see you coming around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Whaley is not the problem. You can clearly see the difference in talent on this team over the last 3-4 years. The problem is the utilization of this talent. Schwartz got the most out of the defense. No one has gotten the most out of the offense as of yet. Until we have coaches that do so and a QB who doesn't look like JP Losman reincarnate we will be fair to middlen every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Gump Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) With all due respect, Vince Lombardi could not coach the Bills defensive roster to cover the Jets receivers. It was the most ridiculously lop sided personnel matchup I have ever seen. It wasn't last year with basically the same DB's. Edited September 17, 2016 by Bubba Gump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 If you want to have a running game, going out and getting one of the top rated running backs in the league makes a lot of sense. So, I applaud Whaley for getting the best back he could get his hands on. It is unbelievable that this staff can't get more production out of the running game with Shady as the running back, but maybe Shady isn't as good as he was in years past right now. Still, I don't see how anyone can blame him for getting a star running back if the intent was to be able to run the ball. As far as giving him a complete pass - I don't think the guy is perfect. I think he is top ten in terms of talent evaluators. I give him that praise based on his selection of free agents, trades and yes drafts too. Name me another GM who gets that trade done for Hughes while giving up a mostly unproductive Kelvin Sheppard? I am completely convinced Whaley will build a Superbowl team. I think he is well on his way. We are a quarterback short - as are most teams. If we could get players to lay off the weed and knock off the other personal life antics, this team would be much, better. Maybe that is Whaley's biggest fault - not paying enough attention to personal character. Other than that though, the guy has an eye for talent - He spots talent in players that are relatively unknown. I am confident that the injured guys he drafted this year will end up being good players and this team will be better yet. Getting rid of him would be dang foolish and would set this team back a lot unless they got someone else in here that could evaluate talent that well. And I really doubt they would. The Hughes trade was his finest moment. Other than that, what has he done that's so great? Nothing else wildly stands out from what the rest of the teams do. I've spent time on TSW defending Whaley, he seems alright. I don't see any reason to be broke up about it though if they want to reboot from the Ralph era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I don't disagree that Polian was a big loss. However, people who are super-nostalgic for Polian and the superbowl glory years need to remember that Polian was the Bills GM from 1986 to 1992. Unrestricted free agency replaced "Plan B" in 1992. While Polian had success in Carolina and Indy, it was never able to be as sustained as in Buffalo. Polian built the glory years teams. He was a huge loss when he step down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 where do we come up with this crap.....how are supposed to respect your opinion on other things when you post this stuff. 9-7 is competitive 8-8 is also competitive your laboring under the illusion we are going 1-15 or 2-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I remember you giving me a bunch of guff about that. Glad to see you coming around. Haha, unfortunately so I still would take Taylor over the long run, and Fitz is still a known commodity. But Fitz straight up out played Taylor Thursday night. Really put on a clinic on how to not be afraid to sling it. I hope Taylor watched closely. Not to digress too badly, but... In hindsight, I wonder if the right move back in 2013 would have been to keep Gailey and Fitz, still draft EJ, bring Pettine in as DC/AHC with a wink and nod that he'd have the HC in a couple years, let Gailey develop EJ while Fitz started for at least 2 more years, and see where we ended up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 The Hughes trade was his finest moment. Other than that, what has he done that's so great? Nothing else wildly stands out from what the rest of the teams do. I've spent time on TSW defending Whaley, he seems alright. I don't see any reason to be broke up about it though if they want to reboot from the Ralph era. The Hughes trade was his finest moment. Other than that, what has he done that's so great? Nothing else wildly stands out from what the rest of the teams do. I've spent time on TSW defending Whaley, he seems alright. I don't see any reason to be broke up about it though if they want to reboot from the Ralph era. It doesnt seem like much because the team doesnt have playoffs and winning records....you would feel differently probably if they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Haha, unfortunately so I still would take Taylor over the long run, and Fitz is still a known commodity. But Fitz straight up out played Taylor Thursday night. Really put on a clinic on how to not be afraid to sling it. I hope Taylor watched closely. Not to digress too badly, but... In hindsight, I wonder if the right move back in 2013 would have been to keep Gailey and Fitz, still draft EJ, bring Pettine in as DC/AHC with a wink and nod that he'd have the HC in a couple years, let Gailey develop EJ while Fitz started for at least 2 more years, and see where we ended up... While I agree about not being afraid to sling it, our defense really failed on breakup passes and ints that should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 While I agree about not being afraid to sling it, our defense really failed on breakup passes and ints that should have been. Yeah, I could NOT believe that we didnt force a pick. But that takes me back to my post about not blitzing and no safety help, which sets CBs up to jump routes. Definitely need guys to step up more and be playmakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 It wasn't last year with basically the same DB's. Quincy Enunwa torched the Bills corners in the first half. He was a rookie last year, didn't play in the first Bills game and was targeted only once in the second game. The Jets also self destructed more in the two games last season. In the off season Fitz and Chan learned a trick or two about how to play against the Bills- namely that the receivers do not need to run fancy routes to get separation- all they have to do is run the route, throw it high towards the receivers back shoulder and whether single covered, double coverage- whatever- they caught the ball at will as if the Bills corners were ghosts. This physical limitations of our corners were exposed for the entire league to see on National TV. The Bills had zero answer for their pass attack. It could become quite a blood bath from here on out, very scary stuff. Bottom line- the Bills corners are the wrong guys for the job- which is a dreadful understatement. The guy who hired them has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 2 games.....1 if which they played well This is a knee jerk reaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Whaley set this team up as a 4-3 defense. Rex screwed us by changing to a 3-4. If we were pressuring qbs our cbs wouldn't be this exposed Pressure on the QB did not matter in the Jets game. Fitz did not have to wait for the receivers to get separation. He threw the ball as soon as it was snapped and completed down field whether the receivers were open or double covered. It was really quite unbelievable, it was horrible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Pressure on the QB did not matter in the Jets game. Fitz did not have to wait for the receivers to get separation. He threw the ball as soon as it was snapped and completed down field whether the receivers were open or double covered. It was really quite unbelievable, it was horrible, Pats have done that to us with Gronk many times, but Rex seemed to have a plan last year, getting multiple guys on Gronk ... problem with the Jets is they have 2 really tall WRs in Marshall and Decker, and Enunwa is a big/physical WR too. That's where the league is headed (well, other than the Bills), and it's not just the Bills who don't have a strategy to stop it. I'm not looking forward to the Gronk-Martellus Bennett combo against us either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Last night was the nail in the coffin for Doug Whaley IMHO. He has failed to man a roster that is competitive within our division. The most blatant example is our relatively short corners trying to defend against the Jets towering receivers. Same issue with the Patriots that feature a fast tall tight end. Same with the Dolphins. An 8" height advantage for a receiver or TE is simply ridiculous. Most QBs in the league could complete passes to the Jets receivers vs. the Bills corners. Coaching did all they could to defense against the Jets offense - employing (7) DBs at one point. The accountability for the Bills performance lies with the GM. Our nickel is the shortest and he is short at 5'8", but Darby is 5'11" (not short) and Gilmore is 6'1" which is big for the position... Just FYI.... Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Our nickel is the shortest and he is short at 5'8", but Darby is 5'11" (not short) and Gilmore is 6'1" which is big for the position... Just FYI.... Sorry Yeah, other than Robey there's nothing unusual about the height of our corners. I think what we had going on was a couple things: (1) Rex's belief - perfectly reasonable, I might add - that Fitz wouldn't be able to make many of those throws to man-on-man covered Marshall and Decker, and that he'd probably get one or two picked off if he tried. Not only did he not get picked off; he actually made almost all of the throws. (2) Rex's focus on shutting down the run with limited Front 7 resources - no Dareus, depleted linebackers, etc, which meant he wanted to keep his safeties in the box. I don't blame him for starting the game this way, but certainly by halftime some kind of adjustment was in order ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Yeah, other than Robey there's nothing unusual about the height of our corners. I think what we had going on was a couple things: (1) Rex's belief - perfectly reasonable, I might add - that Fitz wouldn't be able to make many of those throws to man-on-man covered Marshall and Decker, and that he'd probably get one or two picked off if he tried. Not only did he not get picked off; he actually made almost all of the throws. (2) Rex's focus on shutting down the run with limited Front 7 resources - no Dareus, depleted linebackers, etc, which meant he wanted to keep his safeties in the box. I don't blame him for starting the game this way, but certainly by halftime some kind of adjustment was in order ... I encourage people to rewatch that game when they can stomach it... A couple days brings perspective... Fitz played out of his mind and made some incredible throws.... Watch some deep comebacks to Marshall... The throws the ball before Marshall even turns for it- kind of like a real QB should... He played a great game and you had to give it to him.... Maybe it was more him being on fire rather than we suck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Polian built the glory years teams. He was a huge loss when he step down He was, but the point is, people who are nostalgic for him and think his clone could walk in TBD tomorrow and build the same sort of sustained success, are reckoning without the salary cap and unrestricted free agency. I encourage people to rewatch that game when they can stomach it... A couple days brings perspective... Fitz played out of his mind and made some incredible throws.... Watch some deep comebacks to Marshall... The throws the ball before Marshall even turns for it- kind of like a real QB should... He played a great game and you had to give it to him.... Maybe it was more him being on fire rather than we suck.... How about he was on fire, AND we suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Last night was the nail in the coffin for Doug Whaley IMHO. He has failed to man a roster that is competitive within our division. The most blatant example is our relatively short corners trying to defend against the Jets towering receivers. Same issue with the Patriots that feature a fast tall tight end. Same with the Dolphins. An 8" height advantage for a receiver or TE is simply ridiculous. Most QBs in the league could complete passes to the Jets receivers vs. the Bills corners. Coaching did all they could to defense against the Jets offense - employing (7) DBs at one point. The accountability for the Bills performance lies with the GM. throw him in the volcano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 So what you are saying is despite doing some good, since Whaley didn't bat 1.000 he has to go? That is NOT what I said. What you've done is intentionally exaggerate what I said to make my statement seem unreasonable. What I actually said was that Whaley has been a mixed bag and that he hasn't done well enough to keep his job if the Bills badly falter and there is a housecleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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