Doug Whaley- Failure to Field a Competitive Roster

[Solomon Grundy]

It's true that Whaley had Hue Jackson as his #1 after the first round of interviews, and possibly after as well

It's also true, however, that Whaley got his run at Rex during the 2nd interview, and was on board with the hiring.

Whaley couldn't overrule the owners, could he?

[Protocal69]

Last night was the nail in the coffin for Doug Whaley IMHO. He has failed to man a roster that is competitive within our division. The most blatant example is our relatively short corners trying to defend against the Jets towering receivers. Same issue with the Patriots that feature a fast tall tight end. Same with the Dolphins.

An 8" height advantage for a receiver or TE is simply ridiculous. Most QBs in the league could complete passes to the Jets receivers vs. the Bills corners.

Coaching did all they could to defense against the Jets offense - employing (7) DBs at one point.

The accountability for the Bills performance lies with the GM.

You lost me when you said that Whaley didn't man a roster that can be competitive within the division when besides the PATS we have not lost a divisional game in 2.5years before Thursday.

 

Now what happened that our defense could not defend the JETS last night after holding them to 17 pts last year go figure. I would have to say lack of past rush especially in the 2nd half

[yungmack]

Really? My proprietary analytical projections that I do every year for fun has them around a 5-11 team and after the draft boosted their win record to 5.5 wins.

 

Doug Whaley is a complete failure as a GM. Ruined the roster and ruined the salary cap at the same time.

Whaley was building a fine roster...until he helped bring in Rex who began ripping apart the roster, misusing the players, hiring every rum dum yes man he ever employed in his life,failing to properly prepare his team mentally and physically, then topped all by hiring his idiot brother whose failed D from New Orleans was on full display Thursday in, I guess, a stubborn attempt by Rex to show Sean Payton he made a big mistake firing his "genius" slob of a sibling.

 

Whaley's mistake was hiring Rex and he's compounding it by not firing him immediately. There are no problems with anything else he's done. In fact, he's been a great GM otherwise.

[Rico]

Whaley couldn't overrule the owners, could he?

Whaley was lucky he still had a job. Brandon, being the ultimate yes man, was going to follow which ever way the wind was blowing. I put the decision to hire Rex squarely on the Pegs.

[yungmack]

It's true that Whaley had Hue Jackson as his #1 after the first round of interviews, and possibly after as well

It's also true, however, that Whaley got his run at Rex during the 2nd interview, and was on board with the hiring.

Of course he was onboard with the hire. When the owner says this is his guy, you either go along or you quit. Sheesh.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

 

Really? My proprietary analytical projections that I do every year for fun has them around a 5-11 team and after the draft boosted their win record to 5.5 wins.

 

Doug Whaley is a complete failure as a GM. Ruined the roster and ruined the salary cap at the same time.

how'd he ruin the cap? he's done great freeing up money this year.

I'm starting to go against DW myself but not for those reasons

[Mango]

How would you stop the Jets receivers?

 

The physical miss-match is the key. It was happening last season as well against teams with bigger tight ends and receivers. Whaley has failed to address the match-ups in our division. It really is as simple as that.

 

There is a good chance the team would replace Whaley with someone worse, agreed, and this is a huge risk. I do not want any more back slides either. But it could also work the other way too. I do believe that the current physical miss-matches are so blatantly obvious that Whaley and the Bills scouting staff could target larger corners in the next draft but it is almost too late to keep this ship from taking on more water- in the form of more losses and an early end to the season. I hope not.

 

they tried. somehow fitz was able to launch a 20 yard pass as soon as he took the snap in the shotgun. when the receivers are covered and can still catch the ball (easily) by towering over the corners, there is no need for a QB to wait to throw the ball. blitzing is not effective. the corners are too short and it was painful to watch.

This is absurd. Yes we need some better coverage LB's to deal with Gronk. But nobody in the NFL has been able to nuetralize him in god knows how long.

 

Your "short corner" narrative is just as silly. Our top 2 are 5'11. That isn't "short for the CB position. There are guys who have played well at much shorter. Are they Sherman height...no...but almost none are. Cromartie and Peterson come close. Revis is right around 6 foot. You also failed to note that these same corners handled Thursday's same receivers just fine.

 

 

You're on a crusade. Just stop.

 

Other posters are right. The defense that WHALEY ASSEMBLED was great. He was asked to by the coaching staff, with the approval of ownership, to lose some pieces, to add more scheme specific ones. I won't like it if Whaley is fired, because honestly, there is a very good chance we downgrade. But I will understand cleaning house.

 

My perfect situation is, Whaley has full confidence control over the new HC. He has yet to make his own hire. Rex was a Pegula-Brandon hire.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Mango

[The Frankish Reich]

This is absurd. Yes we need some better coverage LB's to deal with Gronk. But nobody in the NFL has been able to nuetralize him in god knows how long.

 

Your "short corner" narrative is just as silly. Our top 2 are 5'11. That isn't "short for the CB position. There are guys who have played well at much shorter. Are they Sherman height...no...but almost none are. Cromartie and Peterson come close. Revis is right around 6 foot. You also failed to note that these same corners handled Thursday's same receivers just fine.

 

 

You're on a crusade. Just stop.

 

Other posters are right. The defense that WHALEY ASSEMBLED was great. He was asked to by the coaching staff, with the approval of ownership, to lose some pieces, to add more scheme specific ones. I won't like it if Whaley is fired, because honestly, there is a very good chance we downgrade. But I will understand cleaning house.

 

My perfect situation is, Whaley has full confidence control over the new HC. He has yet to make his own hire. Rex was a Pegula-Brandon hire.

Nothing like having a weak GM who cannot convince ownership that he actually knows what he's doing! Sounds like a recipe for success. Oh, wait. Seems more like a recipe for:

 

6-10

9-7

8-8

(projected) 5-11

 

Keep up the good work! (Why do bad things keep happening to our poor put-upon GM?)

[yungmack]

Nothing like having a weak GM who cannot convince ownership that he actually knows what he's doing! Sounds like a recipe for success. Oh, wait. Seems more like a recipe for:

 

6-10

9-7

8-8

(projected) 5-11

 

Keep up the good work! (Why do bad things keep happening to our poor put-upon GM?)

Don't know you but based on your posts, you seem like you'd be a miserable boss or father and a classic "disgruntled employee." Are you by any chance a bill collector?

[Reed83HOF]

I saw somewhere on twitter last night, in 2015 we led the league in 3 and outs; we also paid out more money to players (like $166 million) than any other team....

[The Frankish Reich]

Don't know you but based on your posts, you seem like you'd be a miserable boss or father and a classic "disgruntled employee." Are you by any chance a bill collector?

I think I missed my true calling. But there's still time ...

 

... actually, I have been a boss, and I have fired people who didn't perform. I also hate yes men, and the people who are willing to argue a point with me because they have confidence in their knowledge of the business are the ones that I've respected.

[thebandit27]

Whaley couldn't overrule the owners, could he?

He wouldn't have to; if he was adamantly against the hire, the Pegulas would've listened and at least taken it into account

Of course he was onboard with the hire. When the owner says this is his guy, you either go along or you quit. Sheesh.

That's not how they operate.

[John from Riverside]

Last night was the nail in the coffin for Doug Whaley IMHO. He has failed to man a roster that is competitive within our division. The most blatant example is our relatively short corners trying to defend against the Jets towering receivers. Same issue with the Patriots that feature a fast tall tight end. Same with the Dolphins.

An 8" height advantage for a receiver or TE is simply ridiculous. Most QBs in the league could complete passes to the Jets receivers vs. the Bills corners.

Coaching did all they could to defense against the Jets offense - employing (7) DBs at one point.

The accountability for the Bills performance lies with the GM.

I know that people are frustrated....but this is all wrong

 

There is plenty of talent on this team......things that are NOT Whaley's fault

 

- Our blue chip D player is sitting on a 4 game suspension.......we are not getting interior pass rush pressure in the player we have a 100 million dollar contract in...he is also not there in crucial run stop situations which hurt us in this last game.

 

- Sammy Watkins is limited....injuries are not Whaley's fault especially when they did not a injury history in college.

 

- Shaq Lawson DID have an injury in college.....so you could blame him for that situation if you wanted to.....BUT....the jury is still out on this.....if Shaq comes back and that shoulder is fixed and he ends up being a force......then you should NOT blame him for that.

 

- Reggie Ragland was supposed to be a big part of this years defense.....you cant blame Whaley for that injury...and further more Z. Brown seems like he is a adequate replacement.....so he actually deserves credit here.

 

- Kujo......it has sure taken long enough....but Kujo no actually looks like a good swing tackle

 

- Lets not forget that this talent was good enough to go 4-2 in our own division last year

 

Talent is not the problem...how the talent is being used is the problem. Injuries are a problem.......

[The Frankish Reich]

I know that people are frustrated....but this is all wrong

 

There is plenty of talent on this team......things that are NOT Whaley's fault

 

- Our blue chip D player is sitting on a 4 game suspension.......we are not getting interior pass rush pressure in the player we have a 100 million dollar contract in...he is also not there in crucial run stop situations which hurt us in this last game.

 

- Sammy Watkins is limited....injuries are not Whaley's fault especially when they did not a injury history in college.

 

- Shaq Lawson DID have an injury in college.....so you could blame him for that situation if you wanted to.....BUT....the jury is still out on this.....if Shaq comes back and that shoulder is fixed and he ends up being a force......then you should NOT blame him for that.

 

- Reggie Ragland was supposed to be a big part of this years defense.....you cant blame Whaley for that injury...and further more Z. Brown seems like he is a adequate replacement.....so he actually deserves credit here.

 

- Kujo......it has sure taken long enough....but Kujo no actually looks like a good swing tackle

 

- Lets not forget that this talent was good enough to go 4-2 in our own division last year

 

Talent is not the problem...how the talent is being used is the problem. Injuries are a problem.......

1. Dareus. "Character" issues - including taking into account intel on a player's off the field activities - go into deciding whether to draft a player or to sign him to a big contract with guaranteed money. Don't tell me the GM isn't aware of these things. So no, Whaley isn't responsible for Dareus picking up another drug suspension, but it's not like he didn't have reason to believe this could certainly happen.

 

2. Sammy. Not his fault at all.

 

3. Lawson. Definitely on Whaley. He may turn out to be a great pick. But to the extent that he was a "we need to fill a defensive hole immediately because we're in a win-now philosophy", he was a really ill-advised pick.

 

4. Ragland. Not his fault at all. And I do think Whaley did a decent job in finding some decent players on the waiver wire to fill the gap, but this one really hurt.

 

5. Kujo. I disagree on this one. I haven't watched the All 22, and I don't pretend to be an expert here. But Kujo was certainly expected to seize a starting OT job by now, and it's telling that he's behind Jordan Mills on the depth chart.

 

And the idea that "talent is not the problem" remains the problem. I think we have middle of the road talent, right there with the Jets and Dolphins, but I consider that to be a problem -- for the last few years, the theory has been we can get a few lucky breaks and sneak into the playoffs. That's not a recipe for sustained success.

[Reed83HOF]

I know that people are frustrated....but this is all wrong

 

There is plenty of talent on this team......things that are NOT Whaley's fault

 

- Our blue chip D player is sitting on a 4 game suspension.......we are not getting interior pass rush pressure in the player we have a 100 million dollar contract in...he is also not there in crucial run stop situations which hurt us in this last game.

 

- Sammy Watkins is limited....injuries are not Whaley's fault especially when they did not a injury history in college.

 

- Shaq Lawson DID have an injury in college.....so you could blame him for that situation if you wanted to.....BUT....the jury is still out on this.....if Shaq comes back and that shoulder is fixed and he ends up being a force......then you should NOT blame him for that.

 

- Reggie Ragland was supposed to be a big part of this years defense.....you cant blame Whaley for that injury...and further more Z. Brown seems like he is a adequate replacement.....so he actually deserves credit here.

 

- Kujo......it has sure taken long enough....but Kujo no actually looks like a good swing tackle

 

- Lets not forget that this talent was good enough to go 4-2 in our own division last year

 

Talent is not the problem...how the talent is being used is the problem. Injuries are a problem.......

 

Weed is a problem...

 

I know we all would have crushed the FO to not re-sign Dareus, especially because we spent the 3rd pick of the draft on him, but he is a selfish prick who really hurt this team and is not worth the money at this point....

 

BY the time Ragland plays we will have a new coach and the player won't fit the scheme. I know that doesn't matter because we will have to re-do the D again for the 50th time this century....

[Nitro]

This roster has talent. It is up to the coaches to put them positions to excel. They. like half the other teams in the league, need a QB to carry the franchise ala Andrew Luck.

[goldenboy81]

This Whaley stuff has to stop. The only buffoon is Rex..

The playcalling is the reason they are 0-2, not Whaley..

Sure a franchise qb can make up for bad calls, but the jury is still out on Tyrod..

Doug put a decent roster together and has added depth in his time here..

I like his drafting and its the best since Polian..

 

Whaley didnt say run 4 and 1 behind groy

Whaley didnt say rush 3 but still have no safety help

Edited September 17, 2016 by goldenboy81

[PolishDave]

This Whaley stuff has to stop. The only buffoon is Rex..

The playcalling is the reason they are 0-2, not Whaley..

Sure a franchise qb can make up for bad calls, but the jury is still out on Tyrod..

Doug put a decent roster together and has added depth in his time here..

I like his drafting and its the best since Polian..

 

Whaley didnt say run 4 and 1 behind groy

Whaley didnt say rush 3 but still have no safety help

 

I think Doug Whaley is the best Gm the Bills have had since John Butler.

 

He has proven himself a savvy talent evaluator - which is the hardest part of his job position to get right in my opinion.

 

Good Gm's are not a dime a dozen. Whaley is bringing in talent here and this team will go far if the coach's figure out how to use the talent effectively. That is where the real problem is.

 

The only thing I could really fault Whaley for is signing guys who have questionable character at times - and then the team suffers for it - like with meat head Dareus and his big contract only to have him miss games each season since because he can't control himself in his personal life. I do miss the old days when people like Marv said how much character matters. I think that is part of the reason the Bills' teams of the 90's gelled so well.

 

But Whaley does know talent when he sees it. And I can't imagine the Bills finding a better talent evaluator to replace him. They would take a step backward in all likelihood.

Edited September 17, 2016 by PolishDave

[goldenboy81]

 

I think Doug Whaley is the best Gm the Bills have had since John Butler.

 

He has proven himself a savvy talent evaluator - which is the hardest part of his job position to get right in my opinion.

 

Good Gm's are not a dime a dozen. Whaley is bringing in talent here and this team will go far if the coach's figure out how to use the talent effectively. That is where the real problem is.

 

The only thing I could really fault Whaley for is signing guys who have questionable character at times - and then the team suffers for it - like with meat head Dareus and his big contract only to have him miss games each season since because he can't control himself in his personal life. I do miss the old days when people like Marv said how much character matters. I think that is part of the reason the Bills' teams of the 90's gelled so well.

 

But Whaley does know talent when he sees it. And I can't imagine the Bills finding a better talent evaluator to replace him. They would take a step backward in all likelihood.

Totally agree with you..

[John from Riverside]

1. Dareus. "Character" issues - including taking into account intel on a player's off the field activities - go into deciding whether to draft a player or to sign him to a big contract with guaranteed money. Don't tell me the GM isn't aware of these things. So no, Whaley isn't responsible for Dareus picking up another drug suspension, but it's not like he didn't have reason to believe this could certainly happen.

 

So what would you suggest here? There is not a GM in the league that is gonna let their "foundation blue chip player" walk....and said player would get picked up before the day was out. If Whaley made that mistake then ALL of the GM's are making that mistake.

 

2. Sammy. Not his fault at all.

 

3. Lawson. Definitely on Whaley. He may turn out to be a great pick. But to the extent that he was a "we need to fill a defensive hole immediately because we're in a win-now philosophy", he was a really ill-advised pick. Who should we have picked?

 

4. Ragland. Not his fault at all. And I do think Whaley did a decent job in finding some decent players on the waiver wire to fill the gap, but this one really hurt. Agreed...I this one REALLY hurt.

 

5. Kujo. I disagree on this one. I haven't watched the All 22, and I don't pretend to be an expert here. But Kujo was certainly expected to seize a starting OT job by now, and it's telling that he's behind Jordan Mills on the depth chart. I think there is a lot true to that "better left OT then right OT" stuff with Kujo. I am not saying he was a great pick.....but that he has improved every year and when from a player i didnt expect to make the roster to providing solid depth. GM's have to find those guys to.

 

And the idea that "talent is not the problem" remains the problem. I think we have middle of the road talent, right there with the Jets and Dolphins, but I consider that to be a problem -- for the last few years, the theory has been we can get a few lucky breaks and sneak into the playoffs. That's not a recipe for sustained success.

 

It was and still is about the QB.....Tyrod Taylor is getting crucified right now but look what is happening around him? THis offense was suppposed to be predicated on a run dominant offense...and THEY CANNOT RUN THE BALL.....

 

So lets see what the next game brings.....