thebandit27 Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 When did this happen? The week between Regier and Murray? It didn't. Russ wasn't put in charge of the hockey team until well after Murray was hired.
Jauronimo Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) That's not how big business works, I don't mean to sound condescending about it but there is a widespread belief that hiring outside consultants for a limited, defined time period and scope, is a good way to measure your business's progress and strategy. So the Czar is purely an interim gig who assesses the organization and then advises on the selection of a GM. Who selects the Czar? Edited September 14, 2016 by Jauronimo
Nihilarian Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) Here is an article from when the "hired" Buddy Nix. It is a good read and shows you how nothing has changed. Also, these discussions were happening before then and became so loud, they were 'forced' to hire a GM. Its not a "blame game" for me. I have had this point of view for about 10 years now. (the article is funny too because it mentions Whaley as a guy who should have gotten consideration). http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/ “Russ [brandon] and I scanned a list of possible candidates,” Wilson said Thursday, per Sullivan. “We didn’t know them. I didn’t know them. I don’t think Russ did. We narrowed it down to two candidates for the job of general manager of football, two in-house candidates.” And we wonder whether Wilson took into account the fact Brandon has a strong interest in avoiding an outsider whose first order of business might have been to marginalize Brandon and/or eventually lobby for his termination. It’s a common dynamic in situations like this; last year in Detroit, for example, an 0-16 finish resulted in Martin Mayhew being promoted to the job of G.M., likely due to the significant influence that Tom Lewand has over ownership." WoW, Bills fans really need to read that entire article. That article was written in 2010. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/ "And we wonder whether Wilson took into account the fact Brandon has a strong interest in avoiding an outsider whose first order of business might have been to marginalize Brandon and/or eventually lobby for his termination. " "Regardless of whether Brandon nudged the process toward Nix or Guy in order to preserve Brandon’s turf, one league insider expressed strong opinions regarding the decision to go with Nix." "“Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East." Now look back to what happened after Doug Marrone decided to walk away from the team and shortly thereafter Bill Polian backed away from the Czar job stating that some in the Bills org were bad mouthing him. From the Tim Graham report that the Bills "power Jockeys'' were badmouthing Bill Polian. "Marrone left, though, at least in part because he has been dissatisfied with the Bills' front-office structure. With a three-day exit clause expiring at midnight, Polian wasn't under contract, and the Pegulas couldn't assure Marrone their organizational changes would be substantial enough for Marrone's liking. On his way out the door, Marrone apparently shared some insight with Polian. The source told me Marrone excoriated the organization to Polian. Channel 2 sports director Adam Benigni reported the same. The criticism likely included many of the points raised on the Press Coverage blog in February, thatMarrone had little respect for many executives who wanted their fingerprints all over football operations. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/01/doug-marrone-bill-polian-turned-unintentional-package-deal/ It is kinda easy to see that Marrone quit the Buffalo Bills because he didn't like the front office structure. It was also reported that Marrone walked out of the draft room after the team used two first round picks on Watkins. It was also known that Marrone had a shouting match with Whaley and Brandon over areas of the team at one point. Edited September 14, 2016 by Nihilarian
Coach Tuesday Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 So the Czar is purely an interim gig who assesses the organization and then advises on the selection of a GM. Who selects the Czar? Yes, selection of a GM, rebuilding of other departments as necessary, and development of a strategic vision that the entire organization is structured around and focused on. The Pegulas select the Czar, and they tried to do just this last offseason but weren't able to.
Jauronimo Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Yes, selection of a GM, rebuilding of other departments as necessary, and development of a strategic vision that the entire organization is structured around and focused on. The Pegulas select the Czar, and they tried to do just this last offseason but weren't able to. If the Pegulas are picking GMs and coaches that you want fired how can you trust them to choose a Czar? Maybe we need a Czar to guide in the selection of a Czar? Or perhaps a 3rd Czar to assist in the selection of the Czar that selects the Czar? I estimate we need at least 30 Czars to get this thing done right. I hope they can all fit in a small "Czar Car" for the comedic effect of watching them all get out at OBD.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 If the Pegulas are picking GMs and coaches that you want fired how can you trust them to choose a Czar? Maybe we need a Czar to guide in the selection of a Czar? Or perhaps a 3rd Czar to assist in the selection of the Czar that selects the Czar? I estimate we need at least 30 Czars to get this thing done right. I hope they can all fit in a small "Czar Car" for the comedic effect of watching them all get out at OBD. Alright man - have it your way. I'm telling you this is how businesses often work. Consultants come in with an objective perspective and comparative analytics and advise the board/ownership where changes could be made to improve performance. Don't be surprised if that's exactly what the Pegulas do in December/January.
fridge Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 If the Pegulas are picking GMs and coaches that you want fired how can you trust them to choose a Czar? Maybe we need a Czar to guide in the selection of a Czar? Or perhaps a 3rd Czar to assist in the selection of the Czar that selects the Czar? I estimate we need at least 30 Czars to get this thing done right. I hope they can all fit in a small "Czar Car" for the comedic effect of watching them all get out at OBD. Why do we need to get out in the weeds so far when it comes to this? I'm not sure why Coach Tuesday thinks we need to bring in a Czar, but do you really think that we'd be better without an outside person consulting the organization? Someone with experience to step in briefly, analyze our operations, and determine how it could be run more efficiently? My gut would tell me that the top of their clean-up list would be, "Get the marketing turd out of your UDFA signing meetings or you'll wind up with Rob Gronkowski's midget brother on your starting line-up".
thebandit27 Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 WoW, Bills fans really need to read that entire article. That article was written in 2010. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/ "And we wonder whether Wilson took into account the fact Brandon has a strong interest in avoiding an outsider whose first order of business might have been to marginalize Brandon and/or eventually lobby for his termination. " "Regardless of whether Brandon nudged the process toward Nix or Guy in order to preserve Brandons turf, one league insider expressed strong opinions regarding the decision to go with Nix." "Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East." Now look back to what happened after Doug Marrone decided to walk away from the team and shortly thereafter Bill Polian backed away from the Czar job stating that some in the Bills org were bad mouthing him. From the Tim Graham report that the Bills "power Jockeys'' were badmouthing Bill Polian. "Marrone left, though, at least in part because he has been dissatisfied with the Bills' front-office structure. With a three-day exit clause expiring at midnight, Polian wasn't under contract, and the Pegulas couldn't assure Marrone their organizational changes would be substantial enough for Marrone's liking. On his way out the door, Marrone apparently shared some insight with Polian. The source told me Marrone excoriated the organization to Polian. Channel 2 sports director Adam Benigni reported the same. The criticism likely included many of the points raised on the Press Coverage blog in February, thatMarrone had little respect for many executives who wanted their fingerprints all over football operations. Question: If Russ has all of this influence, and the Pegulas run both the Bills and Sabres, does Russ get credit for things like drafting Jack Eichel, trading for Ryan O'Reilly, and signing Kyle Okposo? No reason to suspect they'd run two teams in such a dramatically different fashion, so I have to assume Russ has that much control over personnel with the Sabres too...he's got that team turned in the right direction!
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Alright man - have it your way. I'm telling you this is how businesses often work. Consultants come in with an objective perspective and comparative analytics and advise the board/ownership where changes could be made to improve performance. Don't be surprised if that's exactly what the Pegulas do in December/January. Consultants often come in also and come to the conclusion they are the perfect person for the job. Trust me I've seen it happen.
thebandit27 Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Why do we need to get out in the weeds so far when it comes to this? I'm not sure why Coach Tuesday thinks we need to bring in a Czar, but do you really think that we'd be better without an outside person consulting the organization? Someone with experience to step in briefly, analyze our operations, and determine how it could be run more efficiently? My gut would tell me that the top of their clean-up list would be, "Get the marketing turd out of your UDFA signing meetings or you'll wind up with Rob Gronkowski's midget brother on your starting line-up". Wait, this is getting silly--what amazing UDFA did we miss out on because Russ made calls at Whaley's request? Look back at Coach Tuesday's post about why he doesn't like Russ--THAT is a salient argument
TSOL Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Yes, selection of a GM, rebuilding of other departments as necessary, and development of a strategic vision that the entire organization is structured around and focused on. The Pegulas select the Czar, and they tried to do just this last offseason but weren't able to. And what happens when a consultant (i cant stand the word Czar, sounds communist) recommends that Brandon sits down and shuts up on personnel descisions?
Coach Tuesday Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Consultants often come in also and come to the conclusion they are the perfect person for the job. Trust me I've seen it happen. Yes they do. That's why I might go outside of the sports world - just hire McKinsey, not Ron Wolf. They're smart enough to figure this out. And what happens when a consultant (i cant stand the word Czar, sounds communist) recommends that Brandon sits down and shuts up on personnel descisions? The owners can chose to listen to the recommendation or not to - it's obviously up to them.
Nihilarian Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Alright man - have it your way. I'm telling you this is how businesses often work. Consultants come in with an objective perspective and comparative analytics and advise the board/ownership where changes could be made to improve performance. Don't be surprised if that's exactly what the Pegulas do in December/January. Man, i hope they do it sooner rather than later. Some Bills fans can joke about hiring a senior consultant or consultants as that is what Bill Polian was going to do before he was bad mouthed by the "power jockeys" Me, I want to see this team win the division again and actually have a shot at getting to a Super Bowl and that won't happen with the status quo.
nucci Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 I don't think he has a say in personnel. This is just my opinion but I believe he was responsible for hiring Marrone and Ryan.
TSOL Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Well, someones gotta right the ship, cause its going sideways and i see icebergs up ahead.
fridge Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Wait, this is getting silly--what amazing UDFA did we miss out on because Russ made calls at Whaley's request? Look back at Coach Tuesday's post about why he doesn't like Russ--THAT is a salient argument Okay, you do realize that you're over simplifying my point there, right? When asked who was there at final roster cut downs, Rex said it was Rex, Whaley and Russ. According to your only approved dissenting opinion with a twist of salience, Coach Tuesday's post mentions the misleading operations as one of his main reasons. This is that. It's misleading. One day, "Hi Russ Brandon has nothing to do with football operations", next day, "Russ was one of the final 3 people making cuts". The point, the only point or argument (I see you conveniently ignored my longer post in the thread where I really explain why it's nonsense for Bills fans to even want this guy around) is that it's not the best way to run the team. If he wants to let the football guys be football guys and mean it, then he has to just accept all of their decisions. You really think he's just sitting there silently waiting for his chance to call the guy and tell him he's on the team? And don't mention the Seattle guy again, please. There's an exception to every rule. Sadly, Russ is not very exceptional, is he (See: Losses, 16 consecutive years of)?
Nihilarian Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Question: If Russ has all of this influence, and the Pegulas run both the Bills and Sabres, does Russ get credit for things like drafting Jack Eichel, trading for Ryan O'Reilly, and signing Kyle Okposo? No reason to suspect they'd run two teams in such a dramatically different fashion, so I have to assume Russ has that much control over personnel with the Sabres too...he's got that team turned in the right direction! C'mon man, stop running your disinformation BS. I don't want the guy fired or removed from the business side of the org, just the football side. Despite what you and other super homers say, the man is and has been involved in the football side. Doesn't the man have enough on his plate running both the Bills and Sabres that he needs to be in the Buffalo Bills team cut meetings?
TSOL Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 I don't think he has a say in personnel. This is just my opinion but I believe he was responsible for hiring Marrone and Ryan. And i think he has influence in personnel, but isnt the final word. I also think hes responsible for Whaley, Marrone and Ryan hire. Hes had huge influence in the overall climate of the team in the last 5 years.
Jauronimo Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Alright man - have it your way. I'm telling you this is how businesses often work. Consultants come in with an objective perspective and comparative analytics and advise the board/ownership where changes could be made to improve performance. Don't be surprised if that's exactly what the Pegulas do in December/January. I get it. I really do. Sorry for giving you a hard time, but I wanted to demonstrate that a Czar does not guarantee success, no matter how many on this board think Czar is some new age miracle salve. Ultimately, any organization needs to attract, hire, and retain talented personnel. Hire the wrong Czar and you can try again in 5 years.
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