May Day 10 Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 People forget what was tied to the selling of those luxury boxes: the $69m state dollars for the renovation. No pressure there your first year on the job. Nope, none at all. People also forget the utter lack of sponsors prior to Brandon's arrival. It was night and day walking into that stadium before and after he arrived. That corporate sponsorship translated to a ton of unshared revenue and it was no easy task in the face of a WNY economy that wasn't so robust at the time. And people wonder why Mr. Wilson valued him so much. Brandon brought us into the 21st century in terms of a sustainable sports marketing model. Clueless people like to pooh-pooh that aspect of his expertise, as if those corporate deals could have just taken care of themselves through some organic process. Right. But hey, he's the "one constant" so that's all that matters. From a corporate sponsorship point of view, yes, they were awful. Pitiful and a league laughing stock, actually. I know, it was so easy that even you or a caveman could have done it. It is worth mentioning that the sales were sluggish and things werent looking good until flutie magic started.
K-9 Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 (edited) It is worth mentioning that the sales were sluggish and things werent looking good until flutie magic started. You mean to tell me that on field success is related to selling luxury suites and corporate sponsors? I'm shocked. The trick is to make it sustainable in the face of a perennially losing product on the field. That is no easy task and no matter how you slice it, Brandon has been damned good at it. Especially in the kind of fiscal structure imposed by Detroit all those years. I'm amazed people are shocked that his success in that area earlier on would impress his superiors and pave the way for the promotions he has seen since. Edited September 15, 2016 by K-9
TSOL Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 Condescending comments aside. This discussion isnt going away anytime soon. Not until this team starts winning. Luxery boxes be damned, fans just want an exciting team we can be proud of. Not having ESPN laughing at Rexs lapband
Reed83HOF Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 billy cheat for czar It burns me to say this, but yup...
May Day 10 Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 (edited) Condescending comments aside. This discussion isnt going away anytime soon. Not until this team starts winning. Luxery boxes be damned, fans just want an exciting team we can be proud of. Not having ESPN laughing at Rexs lapband All splitting hairs and arguing aside.... If this team fails this year to the tune of 0-6 wins... would anyone object the bills throwing open a window and letting in fresh air (21st century nfl)? Would pegula searching and finding a completely outside person to fully and without interference head up the football program really set the bills back? Edited September 15, 2016 by May Day 10
Mr. WEO Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 You mean to tell me that on field success is related to selling luxury suites and corporate sponsors? I'm shocked. The trick is to make it sustainable in the face of a perennially losing product on the field. That is no easy task and no matter how you slice it, Brandon has been damned good at it. Especially in the kind of fiscal structure imposed by Detroit all those years. I'm amazed people are shocked that his success in that area earlier on would impress his superiors and pave the way for the promotions he has seen since. I and others were hoping you could point specifically to what Brandon has done to sell tickets to Buffalo fans (is it a really tough sell)? Was it the SJF camp move? That sounds like a plus. Was it the Toronto games? A case study in marketing disaster (but I suspect it was never about marketing given how badly he executed it). What else?
Kirby Jackson Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 Condescending comments aside. This discussion isnt going away anytime soon. Not until this team starts winning. Luxery boxes be damned, fans just want an exciting team we can be proud of. Not having ESPN laughing at Rexs lapband We all agree with this. The problem is that people don't understand where to direct their anger. If you don't like the team it falls on the football operations department. It is coaching, scouting and the GM. "A team that we can be proud of" has zero to do with ticket sales, sponsorship sales, marketing, etc... There is a very large lack of understanding around here which is why these conversations arise so often. If people had a better understanding of the job duties within an organization they would better comprehend where to direct their anger. As an example, a lot of people have been mad at Overdorf at different times "because he has been here." Overdorf deals with the cap. IMO, the Bills are really good at cap management. They pay the right people, structure deals in a team friendly manner or in a manner which is needed to get a deal done. There aren't many people in the business better at cap management than Jim Overdorf. If you want a comparison, Mickey Loomis is in charge of the cap in New Orleans. Go take a look at their dead money and ask yourself, "what type of production did the Saints get from those guys?" If we want to sharpen our pitchforks we need to understand the people that we are going after.
K-9 Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 I and others were hoping you could point specifically to what Brandon has done to sell tickets to Buffalo fans (is it a really tough sell)? Was it the SJF camp move? That sounds like a plus. Was it the Toronto games? A case study in marketing disaster (but I suspect it was never about marketing given how badly he executed it). What else? We aren't talking about just selling tickets to fans here. We are talking about selling paid corporate sponsorship and then sustaining that over the long haul in a depressed market at a time when such sales were directly tied to the release of nearly $70m by the state for the next phase of stadium renovation and afterward in the midst of piss poor performances on the field and under the constraints of tight budget controls imposed by Detroit. That's just for starters. But yeah, you could have just walked in and done that, too. 'Cause you know, football in WNY is just so easy. Well, before Brandon showed up the Bills had no where near the corporate sponsorship he brought in and they were considered a laughing stock in that regard in league circles. As usual, I have no desire to enter the abyss of a WEO rabbit hole so I'm done with you on this subject. If you need to learn more about it, do your own homework.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 (edited) I and others were hoping you could point specifically to what Brandon has done to sell tickets to Buffalo fans (is it a really tough sell)? Was it the SJF camp move? That sounds like a plus. Was it the Toronto games? A case study in marketing disaster (but I suspect it was never about marketing given how badly he executed it). What else? The stadium rebuild in 1998 is the largest. They turned a $57M investment into $130M+ in suite revenue to date (based on my dated information). It may be significantly higher. I would say that almost tripling your investment in an 18 year period is a win. No? Edited September 15, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
K-9 Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 We all agree with this. The problem is that people don't understand where to direct their anger. If you don't like the team it falls on the football operations department. It is coaching, scouting and the GM. "A team that we can be proud of" has zero to do with ticket sales, sponsorship sales, marketing, etc... There is a very large lack of understanding around here which is why these conversations arise so often. If people had a better understanding of the job duties within an organization they would better comprehend where to direct their anger. As an example, a lot of people have been mad at Overdorf at different times "because he has been here." Overdorf deals with the cap. IMO, the Bills are really good at cap management. They pay the right people, structure deals in a team friendly manner or in a manner which is needed to get a deal done. There aren't many people in the business better at cap management than Jim Overdorf. If you want a comparison, Mickey Loomis is in charge of the cap in New Orleans. Go take a look at their dead money and ask yourself, "what type of production did the Saints get from those guys?" If we want to sharpen our pitchforks we need to understand the people that we are going after. Good post, Kirby. But I'm not surprised given your experience. No dude. You need to do your own research... Either do the research or continue to pretend you know what you're talking about regarding the subject. But WEO already knows everything about everything so I'm not sure he can be edified. There may be hope for you.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 Good post, Kirby. But I'm not surprised given your experience. Thanks K-9 I try to stay out of conversations like this but at some point I feel a need to chime in. We all have different opinions of the biggest problem. For me, it is still coaching but I am warming to the idea that the Bills take too many chances on the personnel side. I certainly don't see a problem with how they are running the business.
Nihilarian Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 If they say Brandon has no part in Football Ops, and then he's in the room making personnel decisions on cut day, that's a big deal. One thing you hoped the Pegulas were going to bring to the table was more transparency and credibility. The later Ralph years were ominous and dark, and you just had no idea what exactly was going on. Then they go and hire a GM that has credibility outside the organization, and then a coach who has had _some_ success. You think it's going to be different. But then you get Brandon back in the room. Seriously, this has to be a problem. Why? Because they went _way_ out of their way to make sure everyone knew a year or so ago that he was not in Football Ops anymore. They knew he was tainted with the fan base, whether for good reason or not. So they made sure to do that - again, that's all a PR type move too. It would not surprise me if Rex talked about Russ in the cut meeting intentionally. After how his term ended with the Jets, I can't imagine he's happy about a suit who knows very little about football giving advice on how his roster is put together. And he's gotta know that the fans would not be happy about it. Good points! While Russ Brandon didn't himself make the actual choices for players over the last 7 years. It's the fact that because he was in that top position of power as de facto GM / team president he allowed some really stupid moves to happen. Russ Brandon didn't draft Aaron Maybin but he was in the room when it happened and what's more, he allowed it to happen as de facto GM. He was part of that process then and now and that is a constant. The one other real constant over the last 10 years has been this team lacking a top NFL football mind at the top of the org chart and until that happens this team will keep going around in circles. While spinning wheels and changing out schemes and players to fit those schemes.
QB Bills Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 We all agree with this. The problem is that people don't understand where to direct their anger. If you don't like the team it falls on the football operations department. It is coaching, scouting and the GM. "A team that we can be proud of" has zero to do with ticket sales, sponsorship sales, marketing, etc... There is a very large lack of understanding around here which is why these conversations arise so often. If people had a better understanding of the job duties within an organization they would better comprehend where to direct their anger. As an example, a lot of people have been mad at Overdorf at different times "because he has been here." Overdorf deals with the cap. IMO, the Bills are really good at cap management. They pay the right people, structure deals in a team friendly manner or in a manner which is needed to get a deal done. There aren't many people in the business better at cap management than Jim Overdorf. If you want a comparison, Mickey Loomis is in charge of the cap in New Orleans. Go take a look at their dead money and ask yourself, "what type of production did the Saints get from those guys?" If we want to sharpen our pitchforks we need to understand the people that we are going after. People understand just fine. I think it's you who doesn't get it. The whole gist of the discussion is that the marketing guy isn't just a marketing guy.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 People understand just fine. I think it's you who doesn't get it. The whole gist of the discussion is that the marketing guy isn't just a marketing guy. I spent 8 years in a front office (in a management capacity) with 2 different pro teams. I understand the way that it works, as well, or better than pretty much everyone here.
TheFunPolice Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 Most offensive lines in the NFL are mediocre at best... That ought to be clear to anyone who watches football around the league
Nihilarian Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 I spent 8 years in a front office (in a management capacity) with 2 different pro teams. I understand the way that it works, as well, or better than pretty much everyone here. Yea, well. When was the last time you saw the team president / marketing guy of those two pro teams in the teams cut room meetings? Was he really on the phone with UDFA's?
TheFunPolice Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 I blame the lack of a QB. Belichick is Rex with a QB
QB Bills Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 I spent 8 years in a front office (in a management capacity) with 2 different pro teams. I understand the way that it works, as well, or better than pretty much everyone here. well first off, can you get me a job? just so i know how nice i should be in my response
Kirby Jackson Posted September 15, 2016 Posted September 15, 2016 Yea, well. When was the last time you saw the team president / marketing guy of those two pro teams in the teams cut room meetings? Was he really on the phone with UDFA's? I worked with 4 different regimes in total (3 owners in the NBA) and that was the case in all 4 situations.
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