GG Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 @tompelissero Per league source, the NFL's review determined officials should've flagged Brandon Marshall for his blow to Cam Newton's head last night. Shocking
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 well, the ball was already out. i doubt they call the grounding if he was hit in the face and THEN just kind of pushed the ball forward meekly. offsetting there is not pretty/satisfying but makes sense. im honestly not sure the precedent on ejections with hits like that so i wont comment. you can be sure its a fine coming. What's odd is that there are exceptions to offsetting rule, but I think it only applies to 15/5. In other words, if one team has a 15 yard penalty and the other a 5, I don't think they fully offset. It wouldn't surprise me if they expand the exception to basically say personal foul won't be offset.
Wayne Arnold Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) What's odd is that there are exceptions to offsetting rule, but I think it only applies to 15/5. In other words, if one team has a 15 yard penalty and the other a 5, I don't think they fully offset. It wouldn't surprise me if they expand the exception to basically say personal foul won't be offset. There should be a difference between a 15 yard pass interference and a 15 yard ejection-worthy personal foul/unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. They shouldn't be treated equal. If that shot had occurred after the whistle they would have applied the penalty and then the personal foul and it would have been first-down Panthers. That's what they should do. Treat the personal foul like its own entity and not part of the game, regardless of when it occurs. Edited September 9, 2016 by Wayne Arnold
NoSaint Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 What's odd is that there are exceptions to offsetting rule, but I think it only applies to 15/5. In other words, if one team has a 15 yard penalty and the other a 5, I don't think they fully offset. It wouldn't surprise me if they expand the exception to basically say personal foul won't be offset. but those are based on scope of the penalties being so far off, not motivation behind having the rule. i dont think them offsetting here is that upsetting once you back away from the emotional reaction.
KD in CA Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I agree, but I tend to think if it isn't anyone except Brady Cam, if it's Brady, he gets that call. Let's not leave the impression Newton is treated differently than 90% of the other quarterbacks in the league. And since when has the NFL ever ejected someone for a hit during a play?
GunnerBill Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Think of it this way: They enforced the legitimate intentional grounding. Which pinned them back and lost them a down so it's 3rd and extremely long. Then they enforced the personal foul penalty, which gave them an extra down and the yardage they lost back. Do you feel better now? No because the only punishment to the defense really for a hit like that was having to defend 1 extra down. I think what is legitimate is to ask wheter a non dangerous infringement should be capabl of cancelling out an illegal hit to the head given the focus on concussions etc.
mannc Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 And since when has the NFL ever ejected someone for a hit during a play? Good question. I can't recall it happening, but I'm pretty sure the refs have the authority to do so. It's another very good argument for the expansion of video replay. In the NBA (and I think in CFB, too) the refs can go to the video after a dirty play and mete out punishment based on what they see, since often the flagrant nature of the conduct can't be detected in real-time. No reason there should not be such video review in the NFL--just more proof that Goodell is an empty suit.
Freddie's Dead Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 It was a penalty but it was offset. Should have been an ejection. There were more: That was the one that got me riled up. Roby should have been ejected.
Wayne Arnold Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 That was the one that got me riled up. Roby should have been ejected. Funny. That's the one that was legit.
CommonCents Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Cam lowered his head and shoulder in an attempt to truck Robey. What are you looking at? Robey is flying in and his angle is below Cam's shoulder until Cam dips. This was 5 yards down the field, the QB is now a runner....plays like this happen all the time. That is not a flag.
NoSaint Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) That was the one that got me riled up. Roby should have been ejected.would you be yelling that gilmore should be ejected on that same play? its a tough hit but that would be a hard one to stomach losing a guy on Cam lowered his head and shoulder in an attempt to truck Robey. What are you looking at? Robey is flying in and his angle is below Cam's shoulder until Cam dips. This was 5 yards down the field, the QB is now a runner....plays like this happen all the time. That is not a flag.yea, this has been an incredibly common hit in the league. i can get wanting to legislate it out but when the runner drops, it makes it hard on the defender. the uproar for ejection surprises me given how rare ejections are. when robey initiates his tackling move it would have been shoulder to midsection. the 50 lbs heavier runner tried to lower a shoulder into him. shoulder to shoulder quickly becomes head to head. Edited September 9, 2016 by NoSaint
mannc Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Cam lowered his head and shoulder in an attempt to truck Robey. What are you looking at? Robey is flying in and his angle is below Cam's shoulder until Cam dips. This was 5 yards down the field, the QB is now a runner....plays like this happen all the time. That is not a flag. I disagree. Cam lowered his head to protect himself from the blow. Other than run out of bounds, what was Cam supposed to do? Stand up straight and let Robey blast his ribs? Robey launched himself (making no effort to wrap his arms around the ball carrier) and delivered a blow to the side of Newton's helmet with the crown of his helmet. Aside from being dangerous and illegal, it was a very poor form tackle by Robey. yea, this has been an incredibly common hit in the league. i can get wanting to legislate it out but when the runner drops, it makes it hard on the defender. the uproar for ejection surprises me given how rare ejections are. I agree that Robey's is a common hit in the league, but it shouldn't be. That being said, I think the Stewart hit merited an immediate ejection, but not this one. The problem could be solved by simply requiring the defender to at least attempt to wrap his arms around the ball-carrier. Edited September 9, 2016 by mannc
CommonCents Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 would you be yelling that gilmore should be ejected on that same play? its a tough hit but that would be a hard one to stomach losing a guy on yea, this has been an incredibly common hit in the league. i can get wanting to legislate it out but when the runner drops, it makes it hard on the defender. the uproar for ejection surprises me given how rare ejections are. To legislate that hit out of football would require it to be played at a lower speed. Robey is flying in and takes as much if not worse of an impact on that play as Cam does. This is how Denver won the Super Bowl and beat the Patriots. Their safeties and cornerbacks played lights out and hit everything that moved. Anyone remember TJ Ward flying over Edelman as he slide down to avoid being wrecked? Outside of the stupid Bmarsh play last night and the helmet to helmet on Stewart I hope our D has that intensity. How about that hit from Stewart on Tolbert, man that was football. Just leave out the cheap shots I have no taste for that. Cam's talking and flossing sure brings the attention on himself though, the game was going his way. Why push Ward when he is pumping up the crowd? Once his maturity level matches his talent he will win something.
NoSaint Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I disagree. Cam lowered his head to protect himself from the blow. Other than run out of bounds, what was Cam supposed to do? Stand up straight and let Robey blast his ribs? Robey launched himself (making no effort to wrap his arms around the ball carrier) and delivered a blow to the side of Newton's helmet with the crown of his helmet. Aside from being dangerous and illegal, it was a very poor form tackle by Robey. I agree that Robey's is a common hit in the league, but it shouldn't be. That being said, I think the Stewart hit merited an immediate ejection, but not this one. but you hit it on the head here -- he went for a shoulder to rib hit and cam (whether protecting, or trying to hit) made it shoulder to shoulder (and by proxy head to head). robey started into the hit before cam dropped the shoulder. what is robey supposed to do there? hes 50+ lbs lighter and trying to lay enough of a hit to make impact and coming in at a tough angle against a very good runner. it didnt look like there was any intent to hit his head, and very limited recklessness.
mannc Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 To legislate that hit out of football would require it to be played at a lower speed. Robey is flying in and takes as much if not worse of an impact on that play as Cam does. Absolutely untrue. The solution is simple: require the defender to at least attempt to wrap his arms around the ball-carrier, as in rugby. This won't eliminate all concussions, but it will eliminate the most severe blows to the head. It is my understanding that the Seahawks have brought in a rugby coach to help the team with tackling technique and that they are now taught to always wrap up the ball carrier. but you hit it on the head here -- he went for a shoulder to rib hit and cam (whether protecting, or trying to hit) made it shoulder to shoulder (and by proxy head to head). robey started into the hit before cam dropped the shoulder. what is robey supposed to do there? hes 50+ lbs lighter and trying to lay enough of a hit to make impact and coming in at a tough angle against a very good runner. it didnt look like there was any intent to hit his head, and very limited recklessness. Robey had his head down, led with the crown of the helmet, and he made no effort to wrap up the ball-carrier. That's what he did wrong.
CommonCents Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Absolutely untrue. The solution is simple: require the defender to at least attempt to wrap his arms around the ball-carrier, as in rugby. This won't eliminate all concussions, but it will eliminate the most severe blows to the head. It is my understanding that the Seahawks have brought in a rugby coach to help the team with tackling technique and that they are now taught to always wrap up the ball carrier. Robey had his head down, led with the crown of the helmet, and he made no effort to wrap up the ball-carrier. That's what he did wrong. So a league wide mandate that requires all players to wrap up while tackling, how would that be enforced? How are you going to feel about that rule when Gronk is dragging Darby, Gilmore, Roby, and Rob Ryan down the field because you couldn't blow through his legs you had to wrap him up? Different scenarios call for different tackles, most of those are dictated by the size and speed of the player your tackling. A QB can always slide and avoid the haymakers that they will receive in the open field. Cam knows full well he is going to get blasted running like that, he spends the majority of his time doing it to others. Roby leads with his shoulder, I have no idea what your looking at.
mannc Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 So a league wide mandate that requires all players to wrap up while tackling, how would that be enforced? How are you going to feel about that rule when Gronk is dragging Darby, Gilmore, Roby, and Rob Ryan down the field because you couldn't blow through his legs you had to wrap him up? You're acting like there is no precedent for this. The rule would be enforced the same way it's enforced in rugby: if you don't make an attempt to wrap up, it's penalty. It's good tackling technique anyway; there are very few situations where it's not feasible to at least attempt to wrap up, even when you are going low on the ball carrier. And I suppose you could also have an exception in the "tackle box", like there is now for head-to-head contact. Roby leads with his shoulder, I have no idea what your looking at. Robey had his head down and delivered the blow with the crown of his helmet; he was leading with his head. I have no idea what you're looking at.
AdamK Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Absolutely untrue. The solution is simple: require the defender to at least attempt to wrap his arms around the ball-carrier, as in rugby. This won't eliminate all concussions, but it will eliminate the most severe blows to the head. It is my understanding that the Seahawks have brought in a rugby coach to help the team with tackling technique and that they are now taught to always wrap up the ball carrier. Robey had his head down, led with the crown of the helmet, and he made no effort to wrap up the ball-carrier. That's what he did wrong. What are you looking at? The rule states "forcible contact with the crown of the helmet". (The crown of the helmet is the top of his helmet.) It never touches Cam. (The side of his helmet does, but that's not the crown.)
CommonCents Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 You're acting like there is no precedent for this. The rule would be enforced the same way it's enforced in rugby: if you don't make an attempt to wrap up, it's penalty. It's good tackling technique anyway; there are very few situations where it's not feasible to at least attempt to wrap up, even when you are going low on the ball carrier. And I suppose you could also have an exception in the "tackle box", like there is now for head-to-head contact. When rugby's popularity rises to that of the NFL then they should consider adopting some rules. The barbaric nature of the NFL is a major part of its appeal, are we all supposed to deny that now that CTE and other findings have been revealed? That's why we have seen such gradual changes to affect player safety, they are trying to do so without totally transforming the game and thus losing its appeal. No one wants to watch rugby, no one wants to watch flag football. I'm all about making the game as safe as possible and developing equipment that will better prevent head injuries but there is a line where you would transform the game. If it's really all about the safety of players then they would eliminate contact entirely. You're acting like there is no precedent for this. The rule would be enforced the same way it's enforced in rugby: if you don't make an attempt to wrap up, it's penalty. It's good tackling technique anyway; there are very few situations where it's not feasible to at least attempt to wrap up, even when you are going low on the ball carrier. And I suppose you could also have an exception in the "tackle box", like there is now for head-to-head contact. Robey had his head down and delivered the blow with the crown of his helmet; he was leading with his head. I have no idea what you're looking at. Your so wrong about having his head down and using the crown of his helmet, his head is up....see what your hitting....that's what I was always taught. Weren't we all? When someone says head was down that implies they are using their helmet to lead, this hit is not that. His head is up, he tries to lay a big hit on Newton with his shoulder and pays a price.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 That last shot Cam took should have been flagged but when he is running he is just like any other runner and if you take a head shot you take one. Could you imagine if they threw a flag every time a running back got hit in the head? We'd be all up in arms about how the league is ruining the game. I do think all QBs should be treated this way and normally QBs get way too much referee protection but I liked the way the game was called for the most part and hope they keep calling it this way so football can be football again. The only bad part of this game was that Krapernick wasn't get hit, wish he was starting so he could get knocked out a few times.
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