The waiver claim of Vitale got me thinking...

[OCinBuffalo]

To all: I said this was a hypothesis. I'm not sure about it. I am sure that direct snapping to a FB, having the QB turn his back to the LOS, and faking/making the handoff to the QB...every single play, or 3 plays in a row...would be at the very least, highly entertaining. Yeah its scary for the QB to take his eyes off of the field, but, not as scary as the LB who bites on the fake, and then, leaves the middle of the field wide open, for anybody to run into, then receive the ball on the run. What would Sammy do to people if he is in single coverage with no inside help for 10-15 yards around him?

 

I merely said it was a logical explanation. As far as getting a rookie 6th rounder? They made a waiver claim on Vitale for a roster spot. They didn't just sign him to the PS. This indicates to me that they had their eye on him...for some reason.

 

My reason: this type of formation, or, like I said, something similar has been part of Roman's plans for quite some time. When you see a guy that fits, you go and get him...rather than having to compete to sign him.

 

This thinking, and as I see above, I'm not alone in it, is sorta like what the Sabres did coming out of the lockout: build a team that is the polar opposite of what everybody else has on their roster. Danny Briere was a castoff, before he came to Buffalo, and found a system that played to his strengths.

Let me express one concern regarding this back to the 80s football that we are discussing: Salary Cap.

 

It is generally accepted that it takes more good players to run the football consistently than to pass it. You need a good OL, good TE, good QB and at least one good WR to keep teams honest and of course a of very good RB. In the NFL where defensive players have great range, you pretty much need to successfully block 8 or 9 guys on all running plays for them to work so they are hard- especially out of the tight formations that you are talking about.

 

So how can you possible keep a team with enough good players to make this kind of football work in the salary cap era? You still need a strong defense, right?

I see this the exact opposite way: you aren't depending on a few elite blockers/skill players. Rather, you are spreading out the responsibilities. So, you don't need to pay your LT what a normal franchise LT makes. Each player doesn't have to be the very best at his position. Obviously you want everybody to be as good as you can make them. But, your entire season doesn't depend on the #1 WR/#1 RB/ #1 QB and a pro-bowl LT.

 

It's really a case of supply and demand. If everybody is looking for elite LTs, then you can get great value for this scheme, by taking merely a good one, in the 3rd round, instead. Few want the best people for your scheme, so you are getting starters in the 5th round, while everybody else is fighting over backups. Same is true in FA. You don't have to pay top $ for the best, you can spread that $ out and get a lot of good players....which is how you get to the 8-9 guys you are talking about.

 

More importantly, it's how you get the next 3-4 guys than can replace them, without a huge drop-off in talent.

 

This does a lot towards injury-proofing your team, as well as minimizing the impact of FA losses. When it comes down to it: having our bigger guys block their smaller guys? They are going to be injured a lot more than we are. And, a good guy, who fits our scheme, is more likely to stick around, because there won't be as much demand for him: he's just a good guy, not a great guy.

Edited September 5, 2016 by OCinBuffalo

[PromoTheRobot]

It's a passing league, until somebody starts steamrolling LBs and DBs with big guys running out of unbalanced and confusing formations. I like it.

It's wrong until someone's right.

[Nanker]

Agreed but this kid has great hands from what I have heard.

So does Baby Gronk. It'll be innarestin' to see how they're both used this year.

 

It's wrong until someone's right.

Exactly. And The Bills aren't ever going back to the playoffs until they are.

[Saxum]

Keep in mine this guy is a 6th round rookie.

So was Brady. It greatly has to do with scouts and whose scouts do best job of fitting players to scheme.

 

Now Rex's scheme is known for being very complicated and it appears the single wing described is very complicated; is it possible they are over estimating the intellegence of the players?

 

Thinking of quote from "Any Given Sunday" stated by DC played by ex-NFL player Jim Brown:

When I'm talking about defense, you're dumb enough, we made it simple. We made this **** real f*king simple

[K D]

Clay played the same position in college and everyone was excited by the possibilities. But so far he has strictly been a lightly used TE. We hear about all of these creative ideas with these versatile players. Let's actually see it on the field now

[Hapless Bills Fan]

...yes, it's always a danger to many when I start thinking, I know.

 

(....lotsa careful explanation deleted.....)

 

I dunno about all this, but there has to be a reason we would pick this guy up, and right now, running the single wing, against defenses that are designed to blitz and cover, with smaller, faster guys? When you have bigger guys that are going to move the point of attack away from where the D wants it to be? And, you have a running QB, who is also athletic enough to run, then set his feet, then throw 60 yards down the field, as we saw against the Giants?

 

This seems like a logical explanation, at least.

 

What were his ST like in Tampa? A strong, athletic fearless guy should be pretty good. If so, an alternative explanation might be, if they're concerned about AW and they don't want to be able to hold one of the safeties off, they think he can help them at ST.

[The Frankish Reich]

It's wrong until someone's right.

I like signing this kid - there's something to be said for bringing in a talented athlete and figuring out how to use him, rather than sticking with a completely one-dimensional football player like Felton or (dare I mention him?) Mulligan. As for the power running formations working, one word: Tebow! No, I'm not turning this into a "sign Tebow" thread. I'm just saying that the Broncos tried the power running formations with Tebow out of necessity, and it was interesting to watch the fits that it gave certain defenses at certain times. It wasn't a recipe for long-term all-the-time success obviously, but it proved the point other posters are making here: modern NFL defenses aren't built to stop that kind of old-school power attack.

[Rubes]

I have to say, I love this thread.

[John from Riverside]

Keep in mine this guy is a 6th round rookie.

Thank you for reminding us of this

 

Now back under your bridge

[NoSaint]

 

 

Most of the leading rushers last year were 220#-240# backs.

 

Electrifying smaller backs are an endangered species because defenses are faster and can cover and take away the outside run.

 

RIP Cluster McFuxter.

 

It wasn't that long ago that having smaller LB's was something that just sounded good in theory........see Bryan Scott.........but then guys with skills like our own Zach Brown started coming into the league that could really outrun RB's to the edge.

 

A lot of these guys are on defense because the running game became de-emphasized and the opportunities were on the other side of the ball.

 

I think it's a good thing.......it used to be that probably 3-4 of your top 8-10 athletes were RB's and 3 of them hardly ever played.

 

Now these guys are playing and we get to see a lot of really good matchups in the pass game.

 

The power run game is cheaper to implement and big backs would really be running wild if it weren't for the difficulty of constructing an OL and the ridiculous amount of huge DT's that have entered the league.

Despite you being kind of a schmuck, I do appreciate having a group here that delves into discussion of the changing value and distribution of athletic talents/skill sets around the league and in the youth pipeline- and you are definitely thoughtful with that.

[John from Riverside]

I have to say, I love this thread.

It is a good thread.....discussing actual football is good other then trying to figure out why the team WONT succeed.

 

People need to understand....its not just Rex that needed players to scheme fit his defense.....Roman has his own ideas of what a successful offense looks like and he may not necessarily have had all of HIS pieces in year 1.

 

Its my opinion....but I think Roman wants to throw more then we saw last year....but he wants to do it out of formations that HE puts together......show the ability to smash it........but throw out of those formations to guys that can actually catch the ball.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It is a good thread.....discussing actual football is good other then trying to figure out why the team WONT succeed.

 

People need to understand....its not just Rex that needed players to scheme fit his defense.....Roman has his own ideas of what a successful offense looks like and he may not necessarily have had all of HIS pieces in year 1.

 

Its my opinion....but I think Roman wants to throw more then we saw last year....but he wants to do it out of formations that HE puts together......show the ability to smash it........but throw out of those formations to guys that can actually catch the ball.

 

This is an interesting point. The counter-point is that 4 of 6 draft choices last year were offense, as were the principal FA signings - Taylor, Felton, Clay, Incognito. Assuming Roman had input into all, he certainly was provided the opportunity through both draft and FA to acquire pieces he wanted, much more so than the D which was assumed (and had previous year's results to demonstrate) that it contained sufficient talent to succeed.

 

In any event, if it's true that G-Ro didn't have all the pieces he needed, he took an offense that performed poorly the previous year and improved it significantly in his first year, which speaks very well for him.

[Rubes]

 

This is an interesting point. The counter-point is that 4 of 6 draft choices last year were offense, as were the principal FA signings - Taylor, Felton, Clay, Incognito. Assuming Roman had input into all, he certainly was provided the opportunity through both draft and FA to acquire pieces he wanted, much more so than the D which was assumed (and had previous year's results to demonstrate) that it contained sufficient talent to succeed.

 

In any event, if it's true that G-Ro didn't have all the pieces he needed, he took an offense that performed poorly the previous year and improved it significantly in his first year, which speaks very well for him.

 

Plus, it takes more than one year to fully implement an offense to take full advantage of its scheme.

[John from Riverside]

 

This is an interesting point. The counter-point is that 4 of 6 draft choices last year were offense, as were the principal FA signings - Taylor, Felton, Clay, Incognito. Assuming Roman had input into all, he certainly was provided the opportunity through both draft and FA to acquire pieces he wanted, much more so than the D which was assumed (and had previous year's results to demonstrate) that it contained sufficient talent to succeed.

 

In any event, if it's true that G-Ro didn't have all the pieces he needed, he took an offense that performed poorly the previous year and improved it significantly in his first year, which speaks very well for him.

Hopeful...no doubt. I think that a lot of players do not show their true worth in year 1....sometimes it takes some time.

 

In any event......it really is all about....or a majority of......Tyrod Taylor.

 

Having a good qb cures a lot of ills

[BuffaninATL]

Great thread but if this the intended direction, please remember the season opener is less than 1 week away....unless this offense will evolve over time with a guy like Vitale

[3rdand12]

 

Plus, it takes more than one year to fully implement an offense to take full advantage of its scheme.

yes and yes

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Hopeful...no doubt. I think that a lot of players do not show their true worth in year 1....sometimes it takes some time.

 

In any event......it really is all about....or a majority of......Tyrod Taylor.

 

Having a good qb cures a lot of ills

 

True dat.

 

In any event, valid point that for all the talk about Rex and his complex D that took time to learn....just as true that Roman introduced a totally new offensive system, blocking schemes, 1st year starter QB, all things that take time to develop

[NorthBuffaloKid]

It is a good thread.....discussing actual football is good other then trying to figure out why the team WONT succeed.

 

People need to understand....its not just Rex that needed players to scheme fit his defense.....Roman has his own ideas of what a successful offense looks like and he may not necessarily have had all of HIS pieces in year 1.

 

Its my opinion....but I think Roman wants to throw more then we saw last year....but he wants to do it out of formations that HE puts together......show the ability to smash it........but throw out of those formations to guys that can actually catch the ball.

 

Not sure about that one. We were the #1 rushing offense last year. With the defense as injury riddled as it is, I would think that Roman would like to run the ball, if the line can open the holes for the backs.

[John from Riverside]

 

Not sure about that one. We were the #1 rushing offense last year. With the defense as injury riddled as it is, I would think that Roman would like to run the ball, if the line can open the holes for the backs.

The D is not that injury riddled.....we dont have rookies playing for us and replaced them with vets really early in camp....who knows how well they would have played in their 1st year.

 

But...regardless....one good way to cover up a suspect D is to score a lot of points. We have our QB.....Watkins, Clay, Shady....that might be the thinking of the team.

[3rdand12]

 

True dat.

 

In any event, valid point that for all the talk about Rex and his complex D that took time to learn....just as true that Roman introduced a totally new offensive system, blocking schemes, 1st year starter QB, all things that take time to develop

I have been adamant in asking for patience with the Bills on both sides of the ball.

 

New Team really, now coming into the second season and a full off season of Coaching continuity.

 

I am a huge fan of this assemblage of these Coaches. A lot of experience and talent within building right now.

getting a structure in place and then finding the strengths and weaknesses does not happen in one season.

I remain Hopeful.

 

Not sure about that one. We were the #1 rushing offense last year. With the defense as injury riddled as it is, I would think that Roman would like to run the ball, if the line can open the holes for the backs.

Could be both.

How about Roman would like to have a successful pass game? That could easily and likely improve the run game.