Nanker Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 He'll wear #40. Or he'll wear nothing at all. Guess he won't be wearing #40 after all... he be gone.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 Or he'll wear nothing at all. Guess he won't be wearing #40 after all... he be gone. Manny Lawson's new number will be 40.
Saxum Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 I am good with tagging for two years and see what it looks like then. I suspect he won't still be as highly regarded in two years. Good player but this is why you have a franchise tag. Exactly. Some players will hit highs at contract time and then you end up paying that until you can afford to absorb cap hit. Players do not like it but THEIR union, NFLPA, agreed to it and if player is trying to get more than tag cost teams have right to use it. I don't love the idea of tagging a guy for 2 years; the tag often leads to lower participation in offseason work, which can lead to injury and/or lack of production, which is a bad investment for $14M guaranteed. Yes the Byrd situation where he held out, finally signed and exaggerated injury to avoid playing. But that strategy does not usually work for player if team is firm on right to use cap. There was one douche of an agent, now dead, who used to use another player's contract as bargaining chip and that was just wrong.
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 Exactly. Some players will hit highs at contract time and then you end up paying that until you can afford to absorb cap hit. Players do not like it but THEIR union, NFLPA, agreed to it and if player is trying to get more than tag cost teams have right to use it. Yes the Byrd situation where he held out, finally signed and exaggerated injury to avoid playing. But that strategy does not usually work for player if team is firm on right to use cap. There was one douche of an agent, now dead, who used to use another player's contract as bargaining chip and that was just wrong. There are many more cases besides Byrd.
Saxum Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 There are many more cases besides Byrd. Yes and not all as successful as it was for our ex-OT Jason Peters who the Bills should have stuck to their guns on making agents think they could have their clients hold out and get free agency.
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 Yes and not all as successful as it was for our ex-OT Jason Peters who the Bills should have stuck to their guns on making agents think they could have their clients hold out and get free agency. Jason Peters has never hit the FA market in his career. Actually, that was one great example of why you want your best players under market-level contracts. He held out, underperformed, and was traded.
GG Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 Jason Peters has never hit the FA market in his career. Actually, that was one great example of why you want your best players under market-level contracts. He held out, underperformed, and was traded. Technically, he was a free agent for a month
Cripple Creek Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 J. Williams to 31 not a reincarnation of a former J(D) Williams I hope
26CornerBlitz Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 not a reincarnation of a former J(D) Williams I hope Hope not. He was pretty much a waste except for ST contributions.
Cripple Creek Posted September 5, 2016 Posted September 5, 2016 Hope not. He was pretty much a waste except for ST contributions. He wore 31. Bad juju.
thebandit27 Posted September 6, 2016 Posted September 6, 2016 not a reincarnation of a former J(D) Williams I hope He wore 31. Bad juju. He ended up switching to 29 after 2 years though, I believe.
NoSaint Posted September 6, 2016 Posted September 6, 2016 I don't love the idea of tagging a guy for 2 years; the tag often leads to lower participation in offseason work, which can lead to injury and/or lack of production, which is a bad investment for $14M guaranteed. id be curious the actual stats on games missed by guys playing under the tag, vs tagged guys that sign an extension (just an easy way to normalize it out -- likewise cut kickers out).
thebandit27 Posted September 6, 2016 Posted September 6, 2016 id be curious the actual stats on games missed by guys playing under the tag, vs tagged guys that sign an extension (just an easy way to normalize it out -- likewise cut kickers out). Last 5 years (I removed kickers and punters because, well, they rarely ever get injured): 2015 Dallas Cowboys - Dez Bryant, WR: Missed 7 games Denver Broncos - Demaryius Thomas, WR: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Justin Houston, LB: Missed 5 games New York Giants - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE: Missed 8 games 2014 Carolina Panthers - Greg Hardy DE: Missed 15 games Washington Redskins - Brian Orakpo OLB: Missed 9 games New Orleans Saints - Jimmy Graham TE: Missed 0 games 2013 Buffalo Bills - Jairus Byrd S: Missed 5 games Chicago Bears - Henry Melton DT: Missed 13 games Cincinnati Bengals - Michael Johnson DE: Missed 1 game Dallas Cowboys - Anthony Spencer LB: Missed 15 games Denver Broncos - Ryan Clady OT: Missed 14 games Kansas City Chiefs - Brandon Albert OT: Missed 4 games Miami Dolphins - Randy Starks DT: Missed 0 games 2012 Philadelphia Eagles - DeSean Jackson WR: Missed 5 games Detroit Lions - Cliff Avril DE: Missed 0 games San Francisco 49ers - Dashon Goldson S: Missed 0 games Oakland Raiders - Tyvon Branch SS: Missed 2 games Atlanta Falcons - Brent Grimes CB: Missed 15 games Washington Redskins - Fred Davis TE: Missed 9 games Baltimore Ravens - Ray Rice RB: Missed 0 games Chicago Bears - Matt Forte RB: Missed 1 game Arizona Cardinals - Calais Campbell DE: Missed 3 games New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees QB: Missed 0 games Dallas Cowboys - Anthony Spencer LB: Missed 2 games New England Patriots - Wes Welker WR: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Dwayne Bowe WR: Missed 3 games 2011 New England Patriots - Logan Mankins G: Missed 1 game Philadelphia Eagles - Michael Vick QB: Missed 3 games New York Jets - David Harris LB: Missed 0 games San Diego Chargers - Vincent Jackson WR: Missed 0 games Baltimore Ravens - Haloti Ngata DT: Missed 0 games Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning QB: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Tamba Hali LB: Missed 0 games Minnesota Vikings - Chad Greenway LB: Missed 0 games Carolina Panthers - Ryan Kalil C: Missed 0 games Jacksonville Jaguars - Marcedes Lewis TE: Missed 1 game Miami Dolphins - Paul Soliai DT: Missed 0 games Oakland Raiders - Kamerion Wimbley LB: Missed 0 games
BADOLBILZ Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 Last 5 years (I removed kickers and punters because, well, they rarely ever get injured): 2015 Dallas Cowboys - Dez Bryant, WR: Missed 7 games Denver Broncos - Demaryius Thomas, WR: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Justin Houston, LB: Missed 5 games New York Giants - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE: Missed 8 games 2014 Carolina Panthers - Greg Hardy DE: Missed 15 games Washington Redskins - Brian Orakpo OLB: Missed 9 games New Orleans Saints - Jimmy Graham TE: Missed 0 games 2013 Buffalo Bills - Jairus Byrd S: Missed 5 games Chicago Bears - Henry Melton DT: Missed 13 games Cincinnati Bengals - Michael Johnson DE: Missed 1 game Dallas Cowboys - Anthony Spencer LB: Missed 15 games Denver Broncos - Ryan Clady OT: Missed 14 games Kansas City Chiefs - Brandon Albert OT: Missed 4 games Miami Dolphins - Randy Starks DT: Missed 0 games 2012 Philadelphia Eagles - DeSean Jackson WR: Missed 5 games Detroit Lions - Cliff Avril DE: Missed 0 games San Francisco 49ers - Dashon Goldson S: Missed 0 games Oakland Raiders - Tyvon Branch SS: Missed 2 games Atlanta Falcons - Brent Grimes CB: Missed 15 games Washington Redskins - Fred Davis TE: Missed 9 games Baltimore Ravens - Ray Rice RB: Missed 0 games Chicago Bears - Matt Forte RB: Missed 1 game Arizona Cardinals - Calais Campbell DE: Missed 3 games New Orleans Saints - Drew Brees QB: Missed 0 games Dallas Cowboys - Anthony Spencer LB: Missed 2 games New England Patriots - Wes Welker WR: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Dwayne Bowe WR: Missed 3 games 2011 New England Patriots - Logan Mankins G: Missed 1 game Philadelphia Eagles - Michael Vick QB: Missed 3 games New York Jets - David Harris LB: Missed 0 games San Diego Chargers - Vincent Jackson WR: Missed 0 games Baltimore Ravens - Haloti Ngata DT: Missed 0 games Indianapolis Colts - Peyton Manning QB: Missed 0 games Kansas City Chiefs - Tamba Hali LB: Missed 0 games Minnesota Vikings - Chad Greenway LB: Missed 0 games Carolina Panthers - Ryan Kalil C: Missed 0 games Jacksonville Jaguars - Marcedes Lewis TE: Missed 1 game Miami Dolphins - Paul Soliai DT: Missed 0 games Oakland Raiders - Kamerion Wimbley LB: Missed 0 games Good list. But what stands out to me is how many of those guys stars have fallen well below that franchise value in a very short amount of time. Gilmore wants a 5-7 year deal. But he has also played only 35 of the past 48 games.........and that doesn't account for the time missed in the games that he was injured. I think this guy is a PRIME example of someone you franchise.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 Good list. But what stands out to me is how many of those guys stars have fallen well below that franchise value in a very short amount of time. Gilmore wants a 5-7 year deal. But he has also played only 35 of the past 48 games.........and that doesn't account for the time missed in the games that he was injured. I think this guy is a PRIME example of someone you franchise. That certainly is the best business decision.
thebandit27 Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 Good list. But what stands out to me is how many of those guys stars have fallen well below that franchise value in a very short amount of time. Gilmore wants a 5-7 year deal. But he has also played only 35 of the past 48 games.........and that doesn't account for the time missed in the games that he was injured. I think this guy is a PRIME example of someone you franchise. That's a fair point about his ability to stay healthy. I'm not sure it entirely flies in the face of tagging him--my primary concern is that his injury issues will be exacerbated by a lack of offseason work should he decide not to sign the tag right away. I think the only long-term deal that makes sense would be a 5-year deal that he never sees the final 2 years of...I've drawn it up here before, but the basic idea is that his cap hit never gets above $13M in the first 3 years. The big perk there is that--assuming Darby plays well enough to earn his 2nd contract--Darby's extension would kick in in year 4 of Gilmore's deal, so they'll never be stuck paying 2 premium CB salaries. I agree that it's not an easy situation, but that it's definitely better for the team the longer they can keep him here.
PolishDave Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 I'm thinking they already had their minds made up about ditching Lawson coming into this season. Rex played him a lot hoping he would shine so they might get an offer for him. In other words, they were shopping him. Just a theory. I really doubt the decision was made after the last preseason game. Lawson made tackles and QB pressures. He looked like the best linebacker out there in that preseason game as he should have. For a stretch there during the game I remember thinking - geez - Manny keeps making plays. And I remember seeing him in there late in the game thinking - what are you doing playing this guy this late in the game if he is a starter? - Answer - He was never going to start. He was going to be gone regardless of how he played in that game.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 That's a fair point about his ability to stay healthy. I'm not sure it entirely flies in the face of tagging him--my primary concern is that his injury issues will be exacerbated by a lack of offseason work should he decide not to sign the tag right away. I think the only long-term deal that makes sense would be a 5-year deal that he never sees the final 2 years of...I've drawn it up here before, but the basic idea is that his cap hit never gets above $13M in the first 3 years. The big perk there is that--assuming Darby plays well enough to earn his 2nd contract--Darby's extension would kick in in year 4 of Gilmore's deal, so they'll never be stuck paying 2 premium CB salaries. I agree that it's not an easy situation, but that it's definitely better for the team the longer they can keep him here. The bigger issue with Gilmore is his tackling technique, which is terrible and stupid and results in injuries to him. It drives me nuts.
thebandit27 Posted September 8, 2016 Posted September 8, 2016 The bigger issue with Gilmore is his tackling technique, which is terrible and stupid and results in injuries to him. It drives me nuts. Yes, it's rather infuriating to watch him eschew the head-up-wrap-up tackling style that's been taught by every defensive coach over the last 45 years. That said, he can cover, and I'm willing to give up some wrap-up ability provided that (a) he continues to cover well and (b) he can put himself in the right position to at least turn plays back inside from the boundary.
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