Big Turk Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 What evidence? Far too many players have spoken out about this for it to be some random occurrence
Mr. WEO Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 That's irrelevant. The pressure they faced to clear the players to get back on the field during that era of the NFL was overwhelming, and clearly many of them acted with the team's benefit rather than the player's benefit in mind. Far too much evidence exists to simply say otherwise Yeah what evidence (player's anecdotal stories years later when they are trying to make up for squandered fortunes doesn't count)?
Big Turk Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 Yeah what evidence (player's anecdotal stories years later when they are trying to make up for squandered fortunes doesn't count)? Yeah, I'm sure ALL the players who talk about this are ALL trying to gain something from it. Way to generalize and lump them in together.
Mr. WEO Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 Yeah, I'm sure ALL the players who talk about this are ALL trying to gain something from it. Way to generalize and lump them in together. I didn't do that. I said "players", just as you did. You made the generalization. You said "far too many" have accused their team doctors of this. How many are required to make such claims in order to define "tremendous pressure" to ignore their own professional judgment for the honor of being listed as a team doctor?
Saxum Posted September 2, 2016 Author Posted September 2, 2016 That's irrelevant. The pressure they faced to clear the players to get back on the field during that era of the NFL was overwhelming, and clearly many of them acted with the team's benefit rather than the player's benefit in mind. Far too much evidence exists to simply say otherwis What evidence? Far too many players have spoken out about this for it to be some random occurrence So you are saying it is a illegal attempt at extortion? Yeah what evidence (player's anecdotal stories years later when they are trying to make up for squandered fortunes doesn't count)? Yeah, I'm sure ALL the players who talk about this are ALL trying to gain something from it. Way to generalize and lump them in together. Like lumping together all of the doctors without evidence? I didn't do that. I said "players", just as you did. You made the generalization. You said "far too many" have accused their team doctors of this. How many are required to make such claims in order to define "tremendous pressure" to ignore their own professional judgment for the honor of being listed as a team doctor? Too many is defined by how many NFLPA wants to have to try to bleed money out of the league.
Malazan Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) Far too many players have spoken out about this for it to be some random occurrence That's not evidence. The CBA for example, guarantees the right for a 2nd opinion from a doctor of the player's choice paid for by the team. The only requirement is they see the team physician first. They also have the right to not see the team doctor and pay a doctor of their choice for medical treatment with the only requirement being the team is provided a copy of medical reports. If this was such a concern for the player, why didn't he bring this up in the media at the time? He says he knew he was getting bad advice, but he took no action? Like I always say, the NFL should give the players a dose of what they say they want. Have players be done after 1 concussion. After all, it's so risky to their long term health. Give them automatic second opinions from NFLPA doctors paid for by the NFLPA and if either doctors says they should sit then they sit with no exceptions. Let them take whatever drugs they want. It's shocking how these concerns always become concerns after the fact. Usually, when the money is getting tight. Edited September 2, 2016 by jeremy2020
bbb Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 Ex-NFL RB Fred Taylor accuses doctors of failing to disclose injuries to him http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/ex-nfl-rb-fred-taylor-accuses-doctors-of-failing-to-disclose-injuries-to-him-083116That 'Fragile Freddy' name still ticks him off, too I had both of my labrum, one in each shoulder, fully torn from snow shovelling and it is a B word to recover from surgery. I do not know what 'partially torn' means though - how severe of a torn were each of them and how could you not tell other than being on painkillers for other issues. I don't really care about Fred - what I am interested in is how you tore BOTH shoulders up shoveling?!?
Packerland Bills Fan Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 I remember him well. He killed a loaded fantasy football team I had one year.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 That's not evidence. The CBA for example, guarantees the right for a 2nd opinion from a doctor of the player's choice paid for by the team. The only requirement is they see the team physician first. They also have the right to not see the team doctor and pay a doctor of their choice for medical treatment with the only requirement being the team is provided a copy of medical reports. If this was such a concern for the player, why didn't he bring this up in the media at the time? He says he knew he was getting bad advice, but he took no action? Like I always say, the NFL should give the players a dose of what they say they want. Have players be done after 1 concussion. After all, it's so risky to their long term health. Give them automatic second opinions from NFLPA doctors paid for by the NFLPA and if either doctors says they should sit then they sit with no exceptions. Let them take whatever drugs they want. It's shocking how these concerns always become concerns after the fact. Usually, when the money is getting tight. I really liked this at 1st, put it on the NFLPA then there could be no excuses. Then I started to wonder when close to CBA time if anyone these players would be held out as bargaining chips. Guess I don't trust either side.
Saxum Posted September 2, 2016 Author Posted September 2, 2016 I don't really care about Fred - what I am interested in is how you tore BOTH shoulders up shoveling?!? Doctor said I should have given up when I started having pain from shoveling but always do but never enough to stop me before. My pain tolerance is pretty high and I finished a football game once with broken lower arm with both bones broke clean thru. Evidently I tore the labrums and then I made it worse by subsequent work on house. I was trying to sell my rental property and was told by agent it needed to be done. Both were surgically repaired at different times with both requiring bone shaving. Like I always say, the NFL should give the players a dose of what they say they want. Have players be done after 1 concussion. After all, it's so risky to their long term health. Give them automatic second opinions from NFLPA doctors paid for by the NFLPA and if either doctors says they should sit then they sit with no exceptions. Let them take whatever drugs they want. Yes the NFLPA should be the ones responsible for having players go to doctors except they will not do ANYTHING about it when players sandbag season to avoid playing under tag like Byrd do. Likewise they defend players from penalties from blatant dirty plays so they have a bit of conflict of interest here.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 The "fragile" term used by the OP is, frankly, stupid. Taylor rushed for nearly 12,000 yards in the NFL. This board sometimes ...
Saint Doug Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 The "fragile" term used by the OP is, frankly, stupid. Taylor rushed for nearly 12,000 yards in the NFL. This board sometimes ... The OP didn't coin the term. He was just repeating what was stated in the article.
bbb Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 Doctor said I should have given up when I started having pain from shoveling but always do but never enough to stop me before. My pain tolerance is pretty high and I finished a football game once with broken lower arm with both bones broke clean thru. Evidently I tore the labrums and then I made it worse by subsequent work on house. I was trying to sell my rental property and was told by agent it needed to be done. Both were surgically repaired at different times with both requiring bone shaving. Jeez - I guess you do have a high pain tolerance level!
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 The OP didn't coin the term. He was just repeating what was stated in the article. Thank you. Duly noted.
Saxum Posted September 3, 2016 Author Posted September 3, 2016 The OP didn't coin the term. He was just repeating what was stated in the article. Thank you. Duly noted. I'd have posted the article title but it was too long so I used catch phrase from the article and posted the title on the first line. Freddie was making the NFL doctors worse than James Woods character in "Any Given Sunday". Kevin Branson: Cherubini's down. Dr. Harvey Mandrake: Cherubini! What did he fall off the bench? Of course if it was the Bills it would be: Intern: Cassel's down. Bills Doctor: Cassel! What did he fall on the matts?
Big Turk Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 (edited) That's not evidence. The CBA for example, guarantees the right for a 2nd opinion from a doctor of the player's choice paid for by the team. The only requirement is they see the team physician first. They also have the right to not see the team doctor and pay a doctor of their choice for medical treatment with the only requirement being the team is provided a copy of medical reports. If this was such a concern for the player, why didn't he bring this up in the media at the time? He says he knew he was getting bad advice, but he took no action? Like I always say, the NFL should give the players a dose of what they say they want. Have players be done after 1 concussion. After all, it's so risky to their long term health. Give them automatic second opinions from NFLPA doctors paid for by the NFLPA and if either doctors says they should sit then they sit with no exceptions. Let them take whatever drugs they want. It's shocking how these concerns always become concerns after the fact. Usually, when the money is getting tight. This seems like pretty good evidence from players CURRENTLY playing...but I'm sure you'll figure out a way to discredit it so you can continue on believing what you've already decided you'll believe. Let me guess, the players are too dumb and don't know what they are talking about either, right? The most telling part? The longer the player plays, the more likely he is to say the team, doctors and trainers don't have the players best interest in mind...as they gain experience they become less naive to what's really happening "Its their job to make you playable", Detroit Lions safety Don Carey said. "Theres a lot of pressure on them to keep guys on the field." http://pro32.ap.org/article/ap-survey-nfl-players-question-teams%E2%80%99-attitudes-health Edited September 3, 2016 by matter2003
jester43 Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 i get the feeling a lot of you would have blamed the christians for allowing themselves to be eaten by the lions.
Mr. WEO Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 This seems like pretty good evidence from players CURRENTLY playing...but I'm sure you'll figure out a way to discredit it so you can continue on believing what you've already decided you'll believe. Let me guess, the players are too dumb and don't know what they are talking about either, right? The most telling part? The longer the player plays, the more likely he is to say the team, doctors and trainers don't have the players best interest in mind...as they gain experience they become less naive to what's really happening "Its their job to make you playable", Detroit Lions safety Don Carey said. "Theres a lot of pressure on them to keep guys on the field." http://pro32.ap.org/article/ap-survey-nfl-players-question-teams%E2%80%99-attitudes-health 39 out of 100 players said "no", and the question was whether "the team, the coaches and the doctors" have their best interests in mind. It makes bio sense to lump the doctor with the owner and the HC for that question. It doesn't matter anyway. Players are free (and certainly have the means) to hire any number of people they think will keep them healthy ("IVs"???). Some do, there rest don't see the need for those people, obviously. So...even if 100% of the respondents said they did;t trust the team doctor...so what? They can have another doctor. This whole argument is therefore pretty silly. Also, how many players would agree to Jeremy2020's excellent thought exercise where players would be made to miss games with much stricter outside medical reviews enforced? I'm better close to 0% of players would rather be told when they could not play for injuries they currently play with.
Saxum Posted September 3, 2016 Author Posted September 3, 2016 Also, how many players would agree to Jeremy2020's excellent thought exercise where players would be made to miss games with much stricter outside medical reviews enforced? I'm better close to 0% of players would rather be told when they could not play for injuries they currently play with. Byrd would agree to any proposal which he got paid and not have to play. There are a lot of those players including those who signed deals because they had little leverage. As soon as teams were out of players its' players would start bringing notes from doctor saying they could not play but they were medically fit enough to continue to receive paychecks.
Mr. WEO Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 Byrd would agree to any proposal which he got paid and not have to play. There are a lot of those players including those who signed deals because they had little leverage. As soon as teams were out of players its' players would start bringing notes from doctor saying they could not play but they were medically fit enough to continue to receive paychecks. Nonsense. Any player with a reputation of being in the whirlpool too much gets cut and he's done. What these guys who blew their fortunes in their 40's DON'T want to tell you is that...THEY wanted to get back on the field. The team doc handed the vicodin and said "OK".
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