Deranged Rhino Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We're less than two weeks out from the anniversary of September 11th, arguably the most significant historical event in our lifetime. The events of that day forever changed this country and the world. We lost more than just 2,996 mothers, fathers, sons and daughters -- we also seemed to have lost our way as a country. Constitutional protections were rolled back, multiple wars were launched and continue to this day, national treasure was spent at an almost unprecedented rate, hundreds of thousands of additional lives were snuffed out, countries fell, and global stability was shaken to its core. The world we're left with today is at times unrecognizable from the world that was on September 10th, 2001. We're more cynical, more divided, more radicalized along partisan lines on nearly every issue, the EU is crumbling, the Bear and Dragon are working together more closely than ever, and in a perverse twist of geopolitical fate America is now funding, arming and training the very organization that attacked New York and Washington 15 years ago. These twists and turns have ultimately brought the American people a manufactured election designed to put into power a person who will continue down this same confused and dangerous path. Historians will be analyzing the events of the past 15 years for decades if not centuries, trying to answer the slew of still unanswered questions about that day in September when the world changed. As we approach the anniversary, TV and print journalism in all forms are covering the anniversary with specials and op eds -- many of these are challenging the narrative we've been told. Europhysics News kicked the anniversary coverage into high gear this week with the release of this controversial article: "15 years later: On the physics of high-rise building collapses." http://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf It's worth the read, despite Dr. Jones' dubious work on this subject at times. The article calls into question the official findings of the NIST, specifically those in relations to Building 7's collapse. Building 7 became a famous flash point in conspiracy circles because of its total collapse despite not being hit by a plane and of course the strange coverage the BBC gave that infamous morning, discussing the collapse of Building 7 twenty minutes before the building actually collapsed. In fact, the woman reporting the story for the BBC gives her report in front of the still standing Building 7 -- until the broadcast was cut off that is: (forgive the hyperbolics of the text in the video -- the raw clip has been made difficult to find for obvious reasons) While I certainly expect a lot of guff for posting this, I do think the coverage of the anniversary of 9/11 is going to become a bigger news story as we get closer and wanted to kick off a thread about it with some food for thought. I also wish to make my own views on this issue clear: I've never been a big believer in the various conspiracy theories surrounding this topic and still would define my views as such. I'm not offering this article as proof of anything, just fodder for discussion on a difficult topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Do you remember where you were when you heard... that jet fuel can't melt steel beams??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) I can appreciate the first three paragraphs of your post DR. It's hard to believe that it has been fifteen years. I hope that this thread can be used to give our varied accounts and feelings about that fateful day. That being said, I will confess to being disappointed with your inclusion of the completely debunked Tower 7 conspiracy. Why does anyone choose to believe the more unlikely conspiracy story which suggests that at least some reporters of some news organizations were given a script? Especially when, much more logically, miscommunication could easily explain the video. Why in the WORLD would they need to give the reporters a head's up??? Why wouldn't they just blow the building up and let them report the collapse as they would have normally? What most likely, logically happened: While investigating and updating information on the collapse of the towers, someone at the BBC was given a report/press release that building 7 was going to collapse. According to the fire department, by 2:00PM they knew the building would soon collapse. Reporters KNEW this well before the collapse because there are videos of reporters talking about it before it happened. So we KNOW reporters were given information on WTC 7's imminent demise. We can conclude from this evidence that the fire department relayed information to reporters that the building was going to collapse. By the time the report reached the reporter at the BBC, it may have simply been miscommunicated from "About to collapse" to "Has collapsed". She even starts out by saying "Details are very, very sketchy". That alone should put this to rest. She didn't say 'Sketchy'. She didn't say 'very sketchy'. She said "very, very sketchy". CNN, CBS, NBC, BBC and MSNBC , everyone knew the building was going to collapse. NBC Reporter at WTC 7: “That is the building that is going to go down next!”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STOJz9qCQ1A CNN’s Aaron Brown announced WTC 7’s collapse at 4:14 p.m. EDT, one hour and six minutes before it occurred. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1LetB0z8_o A little critical thinking is all that's needed to debunk this nonsense. The downright absurdity of this conspiracy story: The government told many reporters to report something they would have reported anyway after the building collapsed. ADDED: BBC's response... http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html I know that DC Tom has referenced his seeing Flight #77 hit the Pentagon, but I wonder if he would indulge us with a more detailed repetition of his experience? Edited August 31, 2016 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Yeah the whole thing is a nightmare for anyone who likes Occam's Razor. Dr. Jones' ridiculous grabs over the years have gone from humorous to downright pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I can appreciate the first three paragraphs of your post DR. It's hard to believe that it has been fifteen years. I hope that this thread can be used to give our varied accounts and feelings about that fateful day. Agreed. That is my hope and intention with starting the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 FWIW, the video I posted above is a crock. The outward blasts of dust happened because the roof fell down on the floor at each level. The windows were blown out and the dust with it. The added weight of each floor just added more force to the cycle of step and repeat. The top four floors received their maximum stress when that group hit the ground and its fall was no longer buffered by the successive collapsing of the floors below. Like the man said when the elevator cable snaps - it's not the fall that'll kill ya. It's the sudden stop when you get to the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 DR I rather enjoyed your first half of the post. Its very unfortunate that as a country we really have lost our way and our government's power has dramatically increased since that tragic day. I don't believe the 9/11 conspiracies out there but I also wouldn't want to believe it could be true. To even think that they are the result of a conspiracy is beyond chilling. But I once read "the bigger the lie the more likely they are to believe it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We're less than two weeks out from the anniversary of September 11th, arguably the most significant historical event in our lifetime. Why do people who bring up the erroneous reports of the early collapse of 7 WTC, but ignore the erroneous reports of the collapses of One Liberty Plaza & Deutsche Bank buildings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 We're less than two weeks out from the anniversary of September 11th, arguably the most significant historical event in our lifetime. The events of that day forever changed this country and the world. We lost more than just 2,996 mothers, fathers, sons and daughters -- we also seemed to have lost our way as a country. Constitutional protections were rolled back, multiple wars were launched and continue to this day, national treasure was spent at an almost unprecedented rate, hundreds of thousands of additional lives were snuffed out, countries fell, and global stability was shaken to its core. The world we're left with today is at times unrecognizable from the world that was on September 10th, 2001. We're more cynical, more divided, more radicalized along partisan lines on nearly every issue, the EU is crumbling, the Bear and Dragon are working together more closely than ever, and in a perverse twist of geopolitical fate America is now funding, arming and training the very organization that attacked New York and Washington 15 years ago. These twists and turns have ultimately brought the American people a manufactured election designed to put into power a person who will continue down this same confused and dangerous path. Historians will be analyzing the events of the past 15 years for decades if not centuries, trying to answer the slew of still unanswered questions about that day in September when the world changed. As we approach the anniversary, TV and print journalism in all forms are covering the anniversary with specials and op eds -- many of these are challenging the narrative we've been told. Europhysics News kicked the anniversary coverage into high gear this week with the release of this controversial article: "15 years later: On the physics of high-rise building collapses." http://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf It's worth the read, despite Dr. Jones' dubious work on this subject at times. The article calls into question the official findings of the NIST, specifically those in relations to Building 7's collapse. Building 7 became a famous flash point in conspiracy circles because of its total collapse despite not being hit by a plane and of course the strange coverage the BBC gave that infamous morning, discussing the collapse of Building 7 twenty minutes before the building actually collapsed. In fact, the woman reporting the story for the BBC gives her report in front of the still standing Building 7 -- until the broadcast was cut off that is: (forgive the hyperbolics of the text in the video -- the raw clip has been made difficult to find for obvious reasons) While I certainly expect a lot of guff for posting this, I do think the coverage of the anniversary of 9/11 is going to become a bigger news story as we get closer and wanted to kick off a thread about it with some food for thought. I also wish to make my own views on this issue clear: I've never been a big believer in the various conspiracy theories surrounding this topic and still would define my views as such. I'm not offering this article as proof of anything, just fodder for discussion on a difficult topic. Certainly not from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 DR I rather enjoyed your first half of the post. Its very unfortunate that as a country we really have lost our way and our government's power has dramatically increased since that tragic day. I don't believe the 9/11 conspiracies out there but I also wouldn't want to believe it could be true. To even think that they are the result of a conspiracy is beyond chilling. But I once read "the bigger the lie the more likely they are to believe it" The bolded has always been my thinking as well. I'm sure most people on this board had a personal connection to the tragedy that day, because of my own being too painful I never really wanted to dig into that particular rabbit hole. Why do people who bring up the erroneous reports of the early collapse of 7 WTC, but ignore the erroneous reports of the collapses of One Liberty Plaza & Deutsche Bank buildings? Couldn't say. I haven't done much, if any, of my own investigation into the fringe theories about that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The bolded has always been my thinking as well. I'm sure most people on this board had a personal connection to the tragedy that day, because of my own being too painful I never really wanted to dig into that particular rabbit hole. Couldn't say. I haven't done much, if any, of my own investigation into the fringe theories about that day. I'm very glad that 9/11 is on a Sunday this year and I won't be tempted again to take a sledgehammer to the truthers' heads as they line up outside WTC perimeter. The story of the early collapse of 7 WTC is one of the truthers' cogs. Yet they don't pick up on the other 100 things that were not properly reported. Everybody was in a state of panic that day, yet truthers think it was all part of the conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I'm very glad that 9/11 is on a Sunday this year and I won't be tempted again to take a sledgehammer to the truthers' heads as they line up outside WTC perimeter. The story of the early collapse of 7 WTC is one of the truthers' cogs. Yet they don't pick up on the other 100 things that were not properly reported. Everybody was in a state of panic that day, yet truthers think it was all part of the conspiracy. B-Man's explanation above makes sense, as does yours. It's certainly a more plausible explanation. The only conspiracy theories I've really delved into on this topic were ones that hypothesized the intelligence services let it happen on purpose (a similar argument made by some historians about FDR and Pearl Harbor) -- but in those incidents I wound up disagreeing with that premise in its entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 B-Man's explanation above makes sense, as does yours. It's certainly a more plausible explanation. The only conspiracy theories I've really delved into on this topic were ones that hypothesized the intelligence services let it happen on purpose (a similar argument made by some historians about FDR and Pearl Harbor) -- but in those incidents I wound up disagreeing with that premise in its entirety. Our government is so honorable and transparent. Only a kook would dare call it a conspiracy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 B-Man's explanation above makes sense, as does yours. It's certainly a more plausible explanation. The only conspiracy theories I've really delved into on this topic were ones that hypothesized the intelligence services let it happen on purpose (a similar argument made by some historians about FDR and Pearl Harbor) -- but in those incidents I wound up disagreeing with that premise in its entirety. And I go back to the obvious reason that it's not a conspiracy, the vast amount of planning, execution and cover up has to involve thousands of people and involve dozens different agencies, many of whom despise one another. Are we ready to believe that a die hard Democratic NY State organizations would fall in line to support Bush & Cheney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 And I go back to the obvious reason that it's not a conspiracy, the vast amount of planning, execution and cover up has to involve thousands of people and involve dozens different agencies, many of whom despise one another. Are we ready to believe that a die hard Democratic NY State organizations would fall in line to support Bush & Cheney. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 And I go back to the obvious reason that it's not a conspiracy, the vast amount of planning, execution and cover up has to involve thousands of people and involve dozens different agencies, many of whom despise one another. Are we ready to believe that a die hard Democratic NY State organizations would fall in line to support Bush & Cheney. To quote me, three can keep a secret if two are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Anybody really think The Agency would destroy one of their own main enclaves? Porquoi? Seen too much "Homeland" perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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