GG Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Hmmmm. J Edgar Hoover's FBI and the CIA would never do that. Do what? Conspire to keep an entire race as second tier citizens?
boyst Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 So you don't read the articles that you quote from? That's a good idea. People should listen to you more.my point was not the article but that 26cb prefers vanity, and family circus and auto trader links but will bash bretbeit and all these other links. Basically, LABIllz has it right. And proof is in the response given to go back to PPP. There is no need to sit there and constantly flame away peoples opinions because they differ from yours. That's all 26 has done. It looks...awful.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 Do what? Conspire to keep an entire race as second tier citizens? I invite you to research the history of J. Edgar Hoover and the counter intelligence program and get back. Either you know or you do not.
White Linen Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I don't understand your question, but I think we can assume that the "problem" of illegal immigrants voting in Alabama is a non-existent one. Alabama has such a sterling history of facilitating minority voting rights . . . I'm wondering if minorities not being able to vote is a larger epidemic than fraudulent/illegals voting nation wide?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 my point was not the article but that 26cb prefers vanity, and family circus and auto trader links but will bash bretbeit and all these other links. Basically, LABIllz has it right. And proof is in the response given to go back to PPP. There is no need to sit there and constantly flame away peoples opinions because they differ from yours. That's all 26 has done. It looks...awful. He bashed a link that took a picture of Osama Bin Laden and put Colin Kaepernick inside the turbin. Family Circus and Auto Trader have substantially more credibility as non-partisan political commentary than that.
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I have presented plenty of substance in this thread including some that blunted your views. But it's okay if you can't handle it. So in addition to having a poor understanding of the importance of voter ID laws, you also have a poor understanding of what it means to provide substance. Good to know for future tail-chasing.
boyst Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I saw that and it would be shut down if it we a profile as possible. Of course you missed the joke that referenced Kaepernick sitting down. No surprise. again. Resorting to insults. Is it necessary? Or just that you actually can't function without imposing your belief of higher intelligence? Further, answer the question of what these people are doing for jobs? You must present 2 valid forms of ID to get a job. Usually a birth certificate... and a license. If you don't have a license because you're a poor black oppressed by the government are you using your passport, your high school yearbook photo? Wait you shifted the argument already because you said it was not necessary for an issue that is not an issue of voter fraud. Of course, this is your opinion and by offering such insubstantial opinions with no real factual basis you conveniently shift the argument to something you can actually grasp with your understanding of the subject. So again, I'm not insulting you and I just want to know, how are these folks being kept down by a government systematically from getting an ID?
GG Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I invite you to research the history of J. Edgar Hoover and the counter intelligence program and get back. Either you know or you do not. You mean a sexually conflicted staunch anti-communist would go to great lengths to investigate and subvert organizations that received support from the KGB in the 1950s & 1960s? And let's revisit the point again. Most of the things that you bring up happened two generations ago. Over that time many groups who were oppressed and were subject to extreme discrimination have moved on and prospered. Here's a good summary of the benefits of introspection, if it qualifies as good source material for you. Not everything bad that happens to a group of people is the fault of others. Bernard Lewis once made the point that there are two basic ways in which people and nations respond to adversity and decline. The first, the great historian wrote in 2002, is to ask “Who did this to us?” The second is, “What did we do wrong?” One question leads to self-pity; the other to self-help. One disavows personal responsibility and moral agency; the other commands them. One is a recipe for economic failure and political squalor; the other for success.
boyst Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I invite you to research the history of J. Edgar Hoover and the counter intelligence program and get back. Either you know or you do not. that's not how an argument works. You presented the idea and basis of such and you now must provide the research as such. Because, as arguments go with you that when he finds something you will mock the source. You will mock authenticity. You will dismiss it.Bring something to the party if you want to play
Magox Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I invite you to research the history of J. Edgar Hoover and the counter intelligence program and get back. Either you know or you do not. I think you need to research it. That program was not inspired by racial tensions but rather as a counter to any sort of political movement that they saw as disruptive. The racial component that you speak of was simply a byproduct of what the program encompassed. I'm not agreeing with the program, I'm disagreeing with the premise of your beliefs regarding the program.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 again. Resorting to insults. Is it necessary? Or just that you actually can't function without imposing your belief of higher intelligence? Further, answer the question of what these people are doing for jobs? You must present 2 valid forms of ID to get a job. Usually a birth certificate... and a license. If you don't have a license because you're a poor black oppressed by the government are you using your passport, your high school yearbook photo? Wait you shifted the argument already because you said it was not necessary for an issue that is not an issue of voter fraud. Of course, this is your opinion and by offering such insubstantial opinions with no real factual basis you conveniently shift the argument to something you can actually grasp with your understanding of the subject. So again, I'm not insulting you and I just want to know, how are these folks being kept down by a government systematically from getting an ID? 1st of all, the person that you are defending began a response to a post of mine by calling me ignorant. Yet, I do not see you attacking him for that. I have already stated the reason why I believe voter ID is unnecessary bureaucracy on multiple occasions. It doesn't matter how many ways you try to frame the question, my answer is not going to change. It's a solution in search of a non-existent problem. That is all.
boyst Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 He bashed a link that took a picture of Osama Bin Laden and put Colin Kaepernick inside the turbin. Family Circus and Auto Trader have substantially more credibility as non-partisan political commentary than that.there were two earlier he mocked. The watch.org or something like that. And another much further up showing information LABillz provided about voter laws,etc
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 again. Resorting to insults. Is it necessary? Or just that you actually can't function without imposing your belief of higher intelligence? Further, answer the question of what these people are doing for jobs? You must present 2 valid forms of ID to get a job. Usually a birth certificate... and a license. If you don't have a license because you're a poor black oppressed by the government are you using your passport, your high school yearbook photo? Wait you shifted the argument already because you said it was not necessary for an issue that is not an issue of voter fraud. Of course, this is your opinion and by offering such insubstantial opinions with no real factual basis you conveniently shift the argument to something you can actually grasp with your understanding of the subject. So again, I'm not insulting you and I just want to know, how are these folks being kept down by a government systematically from getting an ID? They don't have jobs either.
JohnC Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 And yet, in my state, all voting is by mail (with no ID requirement at all) and voter fraud has been all but non-existent. How do you explain that? From the Oregonian newspaper: Statutes pertaining to Oregon election laws run for pages and pages. But, for the most part, voter fraud and related illegalities are exceedingly rare, according to Oregon Secretary of State Jeanne P. Atkins. "I've been in this job since last March (2015)," she said. "And I've had only four or five of those come across my desk. I'd call it a relative rarity." What scant voter malfeasance exists almost always involves one family member signing the ballot envelope of another — something that's strictly prohibited by law. Isn't the voting period for the mail-in votes in Oregon a month? In Maryland when you go to vote they don't ask for ID. The person at the receiving table will ask you what your date of birth is and may ask you where you live. Then you are directed to a voting machine. I have not heard of any cases of voting fraud. Why would an individual risk a criminal charge for their one vote? What is lost in this discussion is not only the issue of IDs but also the limiting of early voting days and the closing of voting locations that make it difficult for people to get to their voting sites. The clear intention with the added hurdles to voting is to suppress the vote for specified groups rather than encourage it.
Deranged Rhino Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I think you need to research it. That program was not inspired by racial tensions but rather as a counter to any sort of political movement that they saw as disruptive. The racial component that you speak of was simply a byproduct of what the program encompassed. I'm not agreeing with the program, I'm disagreeing with the premise of your beliefs regarding the program. It's funny how often the "racial component" of these controversial issues are "simply a byproduct" of something else. It happens so often it makes you wonder if it's really just a byproduct or something else.
Prickly Pete Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Now Watkins gets involved. It would be glorious if a high percentage of players refused to stand, and the fans reacted by plummeting TV ratings and attendance.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Now Watkins gets involved. It would be glorious if a high percentage of players refused to stand, and the fans reacted by plummeting TV ratings and attendance. Yeah, that would be great.
mannc Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Isn't the voting period for the mail-in votes in Oregon a month? In Maryland when you go to vote they don't ask for ID. The person at the receiving table will ask you what your date of birth is and may ask you where you live. Then you are directed to a voting machine. I have not heard of any cases of voting fraud. Why would an individual risk a criminal charge for their one vote? What is lost in this discussion is not only the issue of IDs but also the limiting of early voting days and the closing of voting locations that make it difficult for people to get to their voting sites. The clear intention with the added hurdles to voting is to suppress the vote for specified groups rather than encourage it. Ballots go out in the mail about 3-4 weeks before Election Day and can be returned (by mail or in person) any time up until Election Day. Voters have to foot the 55-cent bill for their own stamp, unless they want to hand-deliver. There was a lot of hand-wringing when vote-by-mail went into effect about 20 years ago, but pretty much everyone out here agrees that it's been a very good thing. One of the benefits is that there are paper ballots that make it relatively easy to audit the vote, if necessary. Also makes it impossible for anyone to hack the election, which is actually a very real concern in states that use electronic voting machines. And yes, the idea that a foreign national or anyone else would risk a felony conviction or deportation in order to illegally vote in an election is ludicrous. Edited August 30, 2016 by mannc
Magox Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 It's funny how often the "racial component" of these controversial issues are "simply a byproduct" of something else. It happens so often it makes you wonder if it's really just a byproduct or something else. Greg, you're fishing. The program existed well before they surveilled the Black Panthers or any of the Civil rights related groups.
Deranged Rhino Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Greg, you're fishing. The program existed well before they surveilled the Black Panthers or any of the Civil rights related groups. I'm making a general statement. It's curious how often controversial programs use that excuse to explain away the racial consequences of their existence. Like voter ID laws we've morphed this topic into (thanks, Boyst!). Sure, in theory it's noble and the argument you've been making for them does make total sense. But when put into practice, these laws have adversely impacted the working poor, minorities, and the elderly. Some would say that's just a byproduct of assuring our elections appear fair. And maybe it is. But it's funny how the practical implications of these sorts of controversial programs and laws, however noble they may be when they're pitched to the public, have the same recurring "byproduct". Just makes you wonder.
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