ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I could sign an affidavit that I didn't cheat on my taxes, if you promise to leave me alone. It's a great right and privledge, and I feel it's OK to require at least some minimal effort to exercise it. What is the picture id going to do. I look nothing like my id from 2 years ago.
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I doubt the authenticity, but 300 cases out of millions and millions of votes is rampant? Yeah, okay, I got it. So let's recap. You think voter ID laws are designed to keep blacks from voting because it's too difficult for them go to get an ID. Is that your point?
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 It's a poll tax if id costs even one penny.
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Lastly, the data here comes from The Heritage Foundation, a Republican think tank, rather than a neutral source. But let's assume their numbers are accurate. This would still mean that voter fraud is probably near .00000013. So tell me: precisely what do you think a voter ID law would do that would keep you from supporting one?
Kemp Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah, okay, I got it. So let's recap. You think voter ID laws are designed to keep blacks from voting because it's too difficult for them go to get an ID. Is that your point? The courts in these Red States decided it was to keep blacks from voting.
Augie Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 What is the picture id going to do. I look nothing like my id from 2 years ago. And yet, despite never having set eyes on you, I bet any observant clown could tell if I tried to use your ID. And it just might deter some stupid behavior. If you're too lazy to get valid ID, you can forfeit the right to vote.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 And yet, despite never having set eyes on you, I bet any observant clown could tell if I tried to use your ID. And it just might deter some stupid behavior. If you're too lazy to get valid ID, you can forfeit the right to vote. Should homeless be denied vote. There is no stupid behavior outside 300 in a couple hundred million. Not worth the hassle.
IDBillzFan Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 The courts in these Red States decided it was to keep blacks from voting. How does it keep blacks from voting? Please be specific.
Magox Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that the voting fraud convictions is an accurate depiction of what is truly going on in regards to voter fraud. Raise your hand if you ever cheated in school. C'mon, you know many of you have. Did you get caught? Over 70% of students of all students have cheated at some point in their lives while attending school and only 5% have ever been caught. I know I had and just about all my friends had but I can't seem to remember anyone ever getting caught. Mind you, logic dictates that getting caught cheating in school is much easier than fraudulent voting. If you don't have to bring an ID, how the hell do you get caught? Let's just put that aside for a second. What in the hell is wrong with having to provide an ID to go out and vote? We are talking about something that is kinda important, you need it to buy cigs, alcohol, lotto tickets, Democratic convention, clubs etc etc etc. So if we are talking about protecting the integrity of our Democracy by helping ensure that elections are not partaking in fraudulent activities and asking for voters to not provide something that isn't onerous at all, then why the fuss? Poll after poll after poll after poll after poll shows that the Vast majority of Americans believe you should have to provide an ID to vote. Even African Americans and Democrats. We aren't talking about slim majorities, we are talking about around 80%. So who are these people that are so opposed to voter ID's? Partisans, Democratic politicians (because they know that they can rile up their voters if they paint the opposition as wanting to take away their voting rights) and activists. A common excuse that I hear from some people's opposition to having to provide an ID to vote is that the Republicans motives for these laws are to suppress turnout. You know what? That may be true in some of the cases, when it comes to politics, people from both parties will do what it takes to get out votes. I don't doubt that some people harbor these motives. But who cares? That's not to say that most people feel that way and neither you nor I know whats in everyone's heart and what motives they hold. For me, I want people to vote but at the same time I want to make sure that only people who are supposed to vote, vote. Providing an ID, is not an arduous or burdensome task for the vast majority of people to go out and vote. There are services that are provided for people to get out to the polling stations for those that have issues in Rural America. Forget what you believe the motives are, we can sit here all day play the guessing game what the evil opposing parties intentions are, lets just focus on the policy. Providing an ID to go and vote is good policy and 80% of Americans agree.
Kemp Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 So tell me: precisely what do you think a voter ID law would do that would keep you from supporting one? I refuted your theory and statistics and you've moved on to another topic. The problem isn't just the voter ID laws, but looking just at that we know that in the states in question, what constitutes a valid ID is dependent on which groups use which IDs. Then there are the issues of shutting down polling places in poor, black neighborhoods and closing the polls on weekends when it's much easier for many poor blacks to vote. What do you think the reasons are for all of these things when taken together? How does it keep blacks from voting? Please be specific. Don't be lazy. Read the court's decisions. It's easy to find with Google.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 How does Oregon check who is who with voting. They mail in. I could easily vote for a bunch of people in my household.
Augie Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Should homeless be denied vote. There is no stupid behavior outside 300 in a couple hundred million. Not worth the hassle. Homeless should NOT be denied. ID is available to everyone. Want to accept an affidavit, do that on one saying you are indigent and can't afford ID. At least then there is a record of who you are. But even one bad vote is unacceptable. And how do we know it's only 300? That's crazy to just accept that. Without protection against it, it's just a matter of time before it becomes abused far, far more.
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Then I suggest buying a new hearing aid. you have little sense of humor. or do you?
JohnC Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 I'm saying voter fraud instances are extremely rare. In these voter id laws courts have been asking for proof and the states who have been trying to get these laws through have provided none. Part of why these disguised voter suppression tactics have been overturned or severely restricted. You should stop parroting and trafficking in nonsense like this that has been debunked. A couple of years ago Pennsylvania with a republican governor was defending their new voter ID laws in court. Their argument was that although they couldn't cite any examples of fraud theoretically it could be a problem. In other words they were vigorously proposing a solution to a problem that didn't exist. The irony is that where fraud is most likely to occur, in absentee ballots, the ID laws that are usually proposed to address fraud don't deal with absentee ballots. It's not surprising that once the Supreme Court in a ruling last year or a couple of years ago ruled that more stringent ID laws were permissible and that scrutiny of states with a history of discrimination by the civil rights section of the Department of Justice were loosened there was an immediate run on more restrictive ID laws by states that had republican legislatures.
Augie Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 So, clearly we have an imperfect voting system. I was in FL when the hanging chad thing went down. This really should be looked at, right after we get term limits. Or before. Does one exclude the other?
GG Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 A couple of years ago Pennsylvania with a republican governor was defending their new voter ID laws in court. Their argument was that although they couldn't cite any examples of fraud theoretically it could be a problem. In other words they were vigorously proposing a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Now doesn't that sound familiar?
3rdand12 Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 The right is not trying to take that right away. They are trying to protect it because voter fraud is so rampant. It stuns me, sometimes, how unbelievably uninformed our electorate is. who told you this. I thinks its time to link up. If voter fraud is rampant, it sure aint folks who actually vote. because that would be a felony. And I have never once in my life read where A voter voted fraudulently. stuffing boxes is something driven by politicians and their masters .Are the cubans infiltrating the polls again? it is unbelievable what people believe . I agree with that. and to all a good night
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 A couple of years ago Pennsylvania with a republican governor was defending their new voter ID laws in court. Their argument was that although they couldn't cite any examples of fraud theoretically it could be a problem. In other words they were vigorously proposing a solution to a problem that didn't exist. The irony is that where fraud is most likely to occur, in absentee ballots, the ID laws that are usually proposed to address fraud don't deal with absentee ballots. It's not surprising that once the Supreme Court in a ruling last year or a couple of years ago ruled that more stringent ID laws were permissible and that scrutiny of states with a history of discrimination by the civil rights section of the Department of Justice were loosened there was an immediate run on more restrictive ID laws by states that had republican legislatures. Everybody vote absentee... That is where the fraud is. More repubs vote absentee I take? I am a for voter id if they abolish a absentee voting.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 30, 2016 Author Posted August 30, 2016 Yeah, okay, I got it. So let's recap. You think voter ID laws are designed to keep blacks from voting because it's too difficult for them go to get an ID. Is that your point? Might I suggest you read the court finding that slapped down the North Carolina Voter ID (Suppression) Law.
WotAGuy Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Voter fraud is not our most pressing problem. Russian hackers infiltrating our electoral IT systems is a far greater threat
Recommended Posts