Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Remind me again...are slavery and woman's suffrage still a thing? Thanks for making my point! Ummm... You said the country "was founded" on those rights, which, um, weren't really true at the time and apparently are still not completely true.
What a Tuel Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Yep. Except for that pesky slavery thing. Oh, and women. Slavery is something that existed long before the United States and still exists in some countries to date. While most people abhor it, the level American's hold ourselves to the wrongness of it is indicative of our culture. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/ By the way there are currently 60,000 underground slaves in the US (2013). But let's worry about the "epidemic" of unjustified police shootings per year that usually go to a trial. And by epidemic, I mean out of the 990 police shootings in the US last year, 730 were during an attack in progress. That leaves 260 cases that may or may not have been justified across all races. Out of hundreds of millions of encounters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/ The BLM movement is so backwards it isn't even funny. It is railing against an establishment that can't defend itself because through the hundreds of millions of police encounters each year, there are bound to be a few that go bad. And each one is picked up by the media and picked apart for hours and dissected and fed to the masses as some type of problem because it is good ratings. It makes me sick. Edited August 28, 2016 by What a Tuel
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 And that's why it's totally disingenuous for a star black athlete who hasn't been denied anything because of his race to pull out the race card. My guess is that he's gotten some nasty racist tweets because he lost his starting job, and thinks that is how the entire country thinks that way. His protest is juvenile. This is a very good point, but since I'm an anti-nationalist who LOATHES the celebrations of US militarism that are part and parcel of seemingly every NFL game, I'll take my small victories where I can find them, even if the representative isn't ideal (and they never are).
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 i might be mistaken, but having stood for enough anthems, i seem to recall the line about the "land of the free." so obviously heaven forbid someone having the freedom to express his or her opinion. jw Come home to Canada, you hoser!!
fansince88 Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 The whole national anthem/flag/military honor guard/military jet flyover thing that is now associated with sports in this country is flat out bizarre and really has nothing to do with watching sports. Some of it is flat out paid for by the military as a marketing ploy. Get rid of all of it.
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Come home to Canada, you hoser!! there's enough racism in canada to make me blush. jw
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 The whole national anthem/flag/military honor guard/military jet flyover thing that is now associated with sports in this country is flat out bizarre and really has nothing to do with watching sports. Some of it is flat out paid for by the military as a marketing ploy. Get rid of all of it. Couldn't have said it better myself. Good post.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Slavery is something that existed long before the United States and still exists in some countries to date. While most people abhor it, the level American's hold ourselves to the wrongness of it is indicative of our culture. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/ By the way there are currently 60,000 underground slaves in the US. But let's worry about the "epidemic" of unjustified police shootings per year that usually go to a trial. And by epidemic, I mean out of the 990 police shootings in the US last year, 730 were during an attack in progress. That leaves 260 cases that may or may not have been unjustified across all races. Out of hundreds of millions of encounters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/ The BLM movement is so backwards it isn't even funny. It is railing against an establishment that can't defend itself because through the hundreds of millions of police encounters each year, there are bound to be a few that go bad. And each one is picked up by the media and picked apart for hours and dissected and fed to the masses as some type of problem because it is good ratings. It makes me sick. The point is the poster was talking about the founding of the country, which was we the people, except blacks who are 75% (but if you round up...) And women are actually 100% people except for their rights as people. I agree and have said the BLM is ill-conceived and I am not a fan. Edited August 28, 2016 by Kelly the Dog
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Just because you think it is an empty gesture and some others here do, too, does not make it an empty gesture. In fact, just the fact that there is this wildly entertaining and sometimes informative thread PROVES just the opposite. He's a football player. He has a platform to some degree. His empty gesture begat discussions like this all across the country on football message boards and probably some that aren't just about football. If the value of his protest is the it begat an internet discussion, then it is hardly is worth mention. What does not beget discussion on the internet? And what about his protest has not been discussed in the last 12 months over and over and over? This "country" does not condone the killing of innocent citizens--particularly by police. If Kaepernick had an intelligent comment to make as to why he sits during the Anthem, he might seem more genuine. Instead, he sounds like a rich jock--a moron who is last in line to use his "platform" to beat a cliched dead horse. At the end of the home game "protest, he jumps into the Jag, heads to his 3 million dollar home to gaze unon his collection of several hundred pairs of Nike sneakers. so he can spare the rest of us his compulsion for "protest". Edited August 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Remind me again...are slavery and woman's suffrage still a thing? Thanks for making my point! same as it ever was. jw
bacarri and coke Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Interesting that a Nation that built it riches and power on the backs of slaves and gained it's lands by stealing them from natives has given those groups and the rest of us the right to voice our opinions about race and injustice.Quite ironic actually and Kap has this right but to what end I would ask him and does his action help or hurt his cause?This topic is best to be looked at with questions and reflection rather than absolutes.....on a separate note if you look up squidward from SpongeBob and squint you can see Collin Kapernick I swear. Edited August 28, 2016 by bacarri and coke
GottaRun Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Maybe not that one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
What a Tuel Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) The point is the poster was talking about the founding of the country, which was we the people, except blacks who are 75% (but if you round up...) And women we actually 100% people except for their rights as people. I agree and have said the BLM is ill-conceived and I am not a fan. My bad if I didn't understand the posters general point, but this notion that American's are unique in the fact that slavery was legal is off putting. (I know you didn't exactly say this) Yes we should condemn ourselves, and do our best to ensure equality but at some point you have to leave history to be history. This country has evolved based on those very principles, and have used the founding as a guideline for such adjustments. Edited August 28, 2016 by What a Tuel
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 The point is the poster was talking about the founding of the country, which was we the people, except blacks who are 75% (but if you round up...) And women are actually 100% people except for their rights as people. I agree and have said the BLM is ill-conceived and I am not a fan. Kelly - thought you might appreciate this piece (re blm) - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/opinion/black-activists-dont-ignore-crime.html?_r=0
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 If the value of his protest is the it begat an internet discussion, then it is hardly is worth mention. What does not beget discussion on the internet? And what about his protest ha not been discussed in the last 12 months over and over and over? This "country" does not condone the killing of innocent citizens--particularly by police. If Kaepernick had an intelligent comment to make as to why he sits during the Anthem, he might seems more genuine. Instead, he sounds like a rich jock--a moron who is last in line to use his "platform" to beat a cliched dead horse. At the end of the home game "protest, he jumps into the Jag, heads to his 3 million dollar home to gaze unon his collection of several hundred pairs of Nike sneakers. so he can spare the rest of us his compulsion for "protest". Which goes right back to your because he is rich he has no right to B word protest. And spare me and us the I didn't say that parsing, you did say it and you meant it. It's okay, it's your right to be wrong just like Kap is. Fwiw, I don't think he should do it that way, I think politics should stay out of the game. If he wants to do it outside of the actual game, good for him. I'm not a fan at all of what he did. I do think it's ridiculous to say that just because he is rich and black that his protest has no weight because he is going home to a million dollar house.
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 If the value of his protest is the it begat an internet discussion, then it is hardly is worth mention. What does not beget discussion on the internet? And what about his protest ha not been discussed in the last 12 months over and over and over? This "country" does not condone the killing of innocent citizens--particularly by police. If Kaepernick had an intelligent comment to make as to why he sits during the Anthem, he might seems more genuine. Instead, he sounds like a rich jock--a moron who is last in line to use his "platform" to beat a cliched dead horse. At the end of the home game "protest, he jumps into the Jag, heads to his 3 million dollar home to gaze unon his collection of several hundred pairs of Nike sneakers. so he can spare the rest of us his compulsion for "protest". right. so you're suggesting no one should take a stand unless they're an established star. and anyone who doesn't pass your muster should be eliminated for mere publicity seeker. the "moron" card, really. he's a less established star than you might suggest and has far more to lose. that he has taken a stand is admirable because far too many athletes refuse to. you'd rather have them naive and acquiesent? good for you if that nullifies the expansion of conversation. but let's play it safe and have our athletes be acquiescent than real. jw
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 right. so you're suggesting no one should take a stand unless they're an established star. and anyone who doesn't pass your muster should be eliminated for mere publicity seeker. the "moron" card, really. he's a less established star than you might suggest and has far more to lose. that he has taken a stand is admirable because far too many athletes refuse to. you'd rather have them naive and acquiesent? good for you if that nullifies the expansion of conversation. but let's play it safe and have our athletes be acquiescent than real. jw Good post.
stinky finger Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Kaepernick refusing to stand for national anthem is his right. Here's a Marine, who can't stand, because he defended it You are good...
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Which goes right back to your because he is rich he has no right to B word protest. And spare me and us the I didn't say that parsing, you did say it and you meant it. It's okay, it's your right to be wrong just like Kap is. Fwiw, I don't think he should do it that way, I think politics should stay out of the game. If he wants to do it outside of the actual game, good for him. I'm not a fan at all of what he did. I do think it's ridiculous to say that just because he is rich and black that his protest has no weight because he is going home to a million dollar house. Michael Brown and Eric Garner were killed in 2014. Freddy Gray was killed in 2015. Where was Kaep's protest back then? The NBA players came out and gave an eloquent "protest" speech at the ESPYs this year. The WNBA players did the same. NOW Kaep is going to school America with his highly visible platform on the same issue? Look, my point has, consistently, been that this act was all about Kaep and now about any protest. It was late, limp, lame. It was to draw attention to a petulant kid who's star is in free fall. You missed my point, but that was it. right. so you're suggesting no one should take a stand unless they're an established star. and anyone who doesn't pass your muster should be eliminated for mere publicity seeker. the "moron" card, really. he's a less established star than you might suggest and has far more to lose. that he has taken a stand is admirable because far too many athletes refuse to. you'd rather have them naive and acquiesent? good for you if that nullifies the expansion of conversation. but let's play it safe and have our athletes be acquiescent than real. jw see above. As a cynic, I recognize one when I see one--that's Kaepernick. Edited August 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO
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