Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 When you criticize someone like you did it's the equivalent of saying it's not okay in your mind. Not in the it's not legal way, but in the it's not right or moral way. Which is what you did. No I didn't. As GG said, I was saying that many think his "protest" rings hollow because of his status in society. What I "did" say is that you mischaracterized what he was protesting.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 At some point, is someone in the FO accountable?Lol. Good point. Outside of sidestepping the issue today, I wonder if they have an official Carmen Policy on this. No I didn't. As GG said, I was saying that many think his "protest" rings hollow because of his status in society. What I "did" say is that you mischaracterized what he was protesting. You weren't criticizing him. Got it.
BuffaloBaumer Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Visitor sideline fans will have plenty of time to come up with some doozies by 10/16
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Some interesting and rather ironic history about Francis Scott Key that I never knew about: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/wheres-debate-francis-scott-keys-slave-holding-legacy-180959550/?no-ist Edited August 28, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz
Alphadawg7 Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Seriously, what is the issue? The entire basis of this country is rooted in the freedoms of being able to say and express your beliefs. And those rights were established because the founders of our country were oppressed from their own country and felt we should always be allowed to speak out against our government and speak up for what we believe as citizens of this country. Those upset by his display clearly don't understand the very foundations of what this country was built on. They should be applauding this kid because not enough public people like him take a public stand for what they believe in. And besides, in this era how can anyone dispute or argue that the African American culture has not had a fair shake in this country not only in our past but still in our present? I don't blame him for making a symbolic gesture that means something to him. I saw a caucasion speaker a couple weeks ago at an event I was at talk about the divide between minorities and caucasians in this country, and it was astonishing. We already know about the appalling prejudice in our legal systems, however, he wanted to see the success rates. So he studied all kinds of things related to success. For instance, he looked at how often they become millionaires with Post Graduate Degrees, College Degrees, High School Diplomas, and No Diplomas. The closest they ever got was Caucasians succeeding to reach those levels at 10 times more frequency than Hispanics and African Americans, and that was with Post Graduate Degrees. The other levels the difference void grew massively from 40 times less likely to almost 100 times less likely for those minorities compared to Caucasians. And these numbers were not based on illegal immigrants, these were all based on American born citizens. This is just one example of about 30 different comparisons in many success studies where they were on equal footing where the lopsided difference was astonishing. The point is, there is mountains and mountains of statistical evidence about the lack of balance on so many levels between both the hispanic and African American communities compared to white americans. Now add in that hysteria that the Trump campaign has created in racial divide, the alarming number of unnecessary deaths at the hands of law enforcement caught on tape, etc etc...and its not hard to understand how a young African American can feel that his community, his family, his friends, his heritage, etc are not getting a fair shake. So why should anyone be offended that he feels there needs to be change across this country (which there absolutely does) and made a symbolic gesture about it? A LOT has happened since the last time he was on a football field. The things that frustrates me the most about all these hardcore "Americans" who get upset about this...they seem to forget the history of this country is VIOLENT...this country was built on the largest genocide in history of wiping out all the natives to this land. This country was then built on the backs of Asian and African American slaves. This country then fought itself in a civil war over the right to keep having slaves or not. This country is the only country in the world to ever use an Atomic Weapon...and we did it TWICE. This country still has a racist under belly present in both our communities and judicial systems. We may be the "greatest country" on Earth, but our hands are not free of blood...our closets aren't free of Skeletons...our Government and Judicial systems are not free of corruption...our citizens aren't free from injustices. But what we are free of, is the restriction of speech and expression...yet this kid is getting slammed unjustly for expressing his disappointment on how his people still face challenges in this country that others don't. Edited August 28, 2016 by Alphadawg7
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Some interesting and rather ironic history about Francis Scott Key that I never knew about: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/wheres-debate-francis-scott-keys-slave-holding-legacy-180959550/?no-ist Lol. Thanks for posting that. Love that kind of historical anecdote.
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 You weren't criticizing him. Got it. Let me try something else: You said: "It's not okay for a successful and wealthy person to criticize the fact, or even protest the fact that too many people in this country live in poverty?" I said, he can say what he wants--not criticizing him for that. I also pointed out that it's obvious that's not what he is protesting--his own words tell you this. "Assigning" one's self to an oppressed group that you are not a part of (let alone attributing the oppressive behavior to be sanctioned by this "country") is an empty gesture. Keep doesn't like that innocent black Americans have been killed by cops. Neither do I. Neither does anyone (I'm pretty sure) here at this board.
GunnerBill Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Okay so let me start by saying I love your national anthem. I enjoy the opportunity at the London games to sing along to it. However, I am not altogether comfortable with forcing it upon sporting occassions. It seems unnecessary to me to sing it at every NFL game. Championship games? Sure. Games played abroad? Of course. Veteran week games? No problem. But every game even in pre-season is overkill. I agree with what others have said. Kaepernick could have stood stayed stoney silent and not sung along. That is how I treat the UK's anthem about
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Get the !@#$ out then Colin you pos.....you always respect your country's anthem no matter what your view points.... A country that has provided him millions of dollars to sling a football in which he basically sucks at
Beef Jerky Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Okay so let me start by saying I love your national anthem. I enjoy the opportunity at the London games to sing along to it. However, I am not altogether comfortable with forcing it upon sporting occassions. It seems unnecessary to me to sing it at every NFL game. Championship games? Sure. Games played abroad? Of course. Veteran week games? No problem. But every game even in pre-season is overkill. I agree with what others have said. Kaepernick could have stood stayed stoney silent and not sung along. That is how I treat the UK's anthem about Baseball 7th inning stretch. Edited August 28, 2016 by Beef Jerky
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Let me try something else: You said: "It's not okay for a successful and wealthy person to criticize the fact, or even protest the fact that too many people in this country live in poverty?" I said, he can say what he wants--not criticizing him for that. I also pointed out that it's obvious that's not what he is protesting--his own words tell you this. "Assigning" one's self to an oppressed group that you are not a part of (let alone attributing the oppressive behavior to be sanctioned by this "country") is an empty gesture. Keep doesn't like that innocent black Americans have been killed by cops. Neither do I. Neither does anyone (I'm pretty sure) here at this board. Just because you think it is an empty gesture and some others here do, too, does not make it an empty gesture. In fact, just the fact that there is this wildly entertaining and sometimes informative thread PROVES just the opposite. He's a football player. He has a platform to some degree. His empty gesture begat discussions like this all across the country on football message boards and probably some that aren't just about football.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 @RapSheet "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color." https://t.co/CNnJJqG77R Cant wait till that white QB takes your job D-bag (don't forget you are half white yourself dumbazz) I understand & appreciate your POV, but he has the right to his as well. and we have a right to express ours and he can go find another country
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2016 Author Posted August 28, 2016 Cant wait till that white QB takes your job D-bag (don't forget you are half white yourself dumbazz) and we have a right to express ours and he can go find another country Wow! It seems as if the principles of freedom that the United States was founded upon are lost on you. What about the white abolitionists who championed the end of slavery?
GottaRun Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 National anthems before sporting events are a waste of time. Choose a team anthem and be done with it.
zonabb Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Good for him! Singing a national anthem before a sporting event is a joke. Never have sung it, never will. That's my right, provided me by the founding fathers. It's not that I don't appreciate them, nor both my family members who fought in WWII. I'm just not a flag waving, blind patriot who is willing to ignore the problems in this country for a few minutes before a game. If you want to, great. That's your right. If not, great, that's your right. The problem is, we're never allowed to criticize the country, the founding fathers (slave owners and oppressors), or law enforcement. They're untouchable in the minds of many and those who challenge these concepts are marginalized by those without the guts to Have an honest conversation. Not all cops are heroes, America as an ideal is not ideal, and the founding fathers were not altruistic free-thinkers, they were wealthy opportunists.
LI_Bills Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Good for him! Singing a national anthem before a sporting event is a joke. Never have sung it, never will. That's my right, provided me by the founding fathers. It's not that I don't appreciate them, nor both my family members who fought in WWII. I'm just not a flag waving, blind patriot who is willing to ignore the problems in this country for a few minutes before a game. If you want to, great. That's your right. If not, great, that's your right. The problem is, we're never allowed to criticize the country, the founding fathers (slave owners and oppressors), or law enforcement. They're untouchable in the minds of many and those who challenge these concepts are marginalized by those without the guts to Have an honest conversation. Not all cops are heroes, America as an ideal is not ideal, and the founding fathers were not altruistic free-thinkers, they were wealthy opportunists. Completely disagree that we are "never allowed to criticize the country". The country was founded on the opposite precept : "by the people, for the people" and freedom of speech as a basic right.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Completely disagree that we are "never allowed to criticize the country". The country was founded on the opposite precept : "by the people, for the people" and freedom of speech as a basic right. Yep. Except for that pesky slavery thing. Oh, and women.
Ralonzo Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 National anthems before sporting events are a waste of time. Choose a team anthem and be done with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
LI_Bills Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Yep. Except for that pesky slavery thing. Oh, and women. Remind me again...are slavery and woman's suffrage still a thing? Thanks for making my point!
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 i might be mistaken, but having stood for enough anthems, i seem to recall the line about the "land of the free." so obviously heaven forbid someone having the freedom to express his or her opinion. jw
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