26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 there's enough racism in canada to make me blush. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Michael Brown and Eric Garner were killed in 2014. Freddy Gray was killed in 2015. Where was Kaep's protest back then? The NBA players came out and gave an eloquent "protest" speech at the ESPYs this year. The WNBA players did the same. NOW Kaep is going to school America with his highly visible platform on the same issue? Look, my point has, consistently, been that this act was all about Kaep and now about any protest. It was late, limp, lame. It was to draw attention to a petulant kid who's star is in free fall. You missed my point, but that was it. see above. this year. when was CK supposed to make his protest? sitting out the national anthem at a minicamp practice? please, he sat the first preseason game and has continued to do so. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_Bills Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Ummm... You said the country "was founded" on those rights, which, um, weren't really true at the time and apparently are still not completely true. Once again, you lost me. Do you take issue with the notion of freedom of speech that the flag and anthem represent? I just don't see how protesting the anthem/flag translates to things like allowing women to vote, eliminating slavery or addressing the issues that fa face the country today. Freedom of speech was intended to allow us move forward as a country. Do you think we'd still be where we were 200+ year ago without that philosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Michael Brown and Eric Garner were killed in 2014. Freddy Gray was killed in 2015. Where was Kaep's protest back then? The NBA players came out and gave an eloquent "protest" speech at the ESPYs this year. The WNBA players did the same. NOW Kaep is going to school America with his highly visible platform on the same issue? Look, my point has, consistently, been that this act was all about Kaep and now about any protest. It was late, limp, lame. It was to draw attention to a petulant kid who's star is in free fall. You missed my point, but that was it. see above. He's never really been a petulant kid. I think he stinks as a QB and passer but I think he has been very much misunderstood because of what he looks like and his tats and his showing off his muscle crap. I also think that it's possible he knows that his career is falling and cares so much about this issue that this is his last chance to do something about it. Who knows. I hate when people just automatically assume a famous person or rich person or celebrated athlete has crappy motives without knowing much about them. Maybe he is petulant, but you and I don't know that at all. He hasn't shown that side all that much in his career, and a lot of times since high school he has actually shown a completely different, opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Once again, you lost me. Do you take issue with the notion of freedom of speech that the flag and anthem represent? I just don't see how protesting the anthem/flag translates to things like allowing women to vote, eliminating slavery or addressing the issues that fa face the country today. Freedom of speech was intended to allow us move forward as a country. Do you think we'd still be where we were 200+ year ago without that philosophy? i think you just answered your question. he is in his own way attempting to move the country forward. if you suggest that race is not an issue today then god bless. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Once again, you lost me. Do you take issue with the notion of freedom of speech that the flag and anthem represent? I just don't see how protesting the anthem/flag translates to things like allowing women to vote, eliminating slavery or addressing the issues that fa face the country today. Freedom of speech was intended to allow us move forward as a country. Do you think we'd still be where we were 200+ year ago without that philosophy? I think we are not as forward thinking as a lot of people give us credit for. I think it's enormously hypocritical the stance the country takes as a whole on race and always has, and still has. I also think it's easily the best and most generous country in the history of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 He's never really been a petulant kid. I think he stinks as a QB and passer but I think he has been very much misunderstood because of what he looks like and his tats and his showing off his muscle crap. I also think that it's possible he knows that his career is falling and cares so much about this issue that this is his last chance to do something about it. Who knows. I hate when people just automatically assume a famous person or rich person or celebrated athlete has crappy motives without knowing much about them. Maybe he is petulant, but you and I don't know that at all. He hasn't shown that side all that much in his career, and a lot of times since high school he has actually shown a completely different, opposite side. so, because you think he stinks as a qb means he has no right to expressing his right to free speech. it just doesn't work that way. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacarri and coke Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 This is a really interesting thread and the fact that this discussion is going on is healthy.Some of you guys make some amazing points and I thank you for helping me see different inteligent perspectives on this topic....now conversely if you look up Collin Kapernick and squint you might see Squidward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Interesting that a Nation that built it riches and power on the backs of slaves and gained it's lands by stealing them from natives has given those groups and the rest of us the right to voice our opinions about race and injustice.Quite ironic actually and Kap has this right but to what end I would ask him and does his action help or hurt his cause?This topic is best to be looked at with questions and reflection rather than absolutes.....on a separate note if you look up squidward from SpongeBob and squint you can see Collin Kapernick I swear. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 so, because you think he stinks as a qb means he has no right to expressing his right to free speech. it just doesn't work that way. jw No. My point is that in the middle of the game I think politics should stay out of it. The same way I think, for example, even if I totally agree with what some of the actors and actresses are saying in their Oscar speeches, I thInk that is not the right place for it and they should shut the hell up and leave politics out of that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) this year. when was CK supposed to make his protest? sitting out the national anthem at a minicamp practice? please, he sat the first preseason game and has continued to do so. jw Well, there were all of those National Anthems in 2015.... Why be the last one on the peace train? Did he just realize that this "country" was condoning the killing of innocent black men? Come on... He's never really been a petulant kid. I think he stinks as a QB and passer but I think he has been very much misunderstood because of what he looks like and his tats and his showing off his muscle crap. I also think that it's possible he knows that his career is falling and cares so much about this issue that this is his last chance to do something about it. Who knows. I hate when people just automatically assume a famous person or rich person or celebrated athlete has crappy motives without knowing much about them. Maybe he is petulant, but you and I don't know that at all. He hasn't shown that side all that much in his career, and a lot of times since high school he has actually shown a completely different, opposite side. I actually like Kaep and thought that 49er organization messed with his head and crapped out his career. Probably a nice kid, but he's damaged goods and the staleness of his protest speaks more to a sense of frustration and desperation than actual gut level empathy. Edited August 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 No. My point is that in the middle of the game I think politics should stay out of it. The same way I think, for example, even if I totally agree with what some of the actors and actresses are saying in their Oscar speeches, I thInk that is not the right place for it and they should shut the hell up and leave politics out of that night. I believe the biggest platforms can make for the best protests when visibility is many times at the highest point to make the greatest impact. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 You are good... I have nothing but respect for this particular Marine, who didn't choose his battles. But was he injured fighting in massively ill-conceived wars in the greater Middle East that either failed or are on the cusp of failing? My larger point is that public criticism of badly designed foreign policies should be acceptable in this country without someone waving the bloody shirt in response. ("Waving the bloody shirt" was a catchphrase that took hold after the Civil War when northern supporters of the war effort trotted out wounded war veterans to metaphorically shout down their political opponents, particularly in the North.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I believe the biggest platforms can make for the best protests when visibility is many times at the highest point to make the greatest impact. JMO. That's true. Sometimes people think they must speak out or act out. I was not at all against the John Carlos and Tommie Smith stance. I guess I see that as a little different. Perhaps it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 That's true. Sometimes people think they must speak out or act out. I was not at all against the John Carlos and Tommie Smith stance. I guess I see that as a little different. Perhaps it is not. See the nyt article i posted above about the distortions of blm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 My bad if I didn't understand the posters general point, but this notion that American's are unique in the fact that slavery was legal is off putting. (I know you didn't exactly say this) Yes we should condemn ourselves, and do our best to ensure equality but at some point you have to leave history to be history. This country has evolved based on those very principles, and have used the founding as a guideline for such adjustments. Huh? Why? Do vegans codemn themselves on a daily basis because their ancestors ate meat? Sorry, but WEO is right. The guy is a piece of crap who's just kicking and screaming while his career circles the bowl. Next step will be the big locker room meltdown when a reporter asks the wrong question. Who really cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) That's true. Sometimes people think they must speak out or act out. I was not at all against the John Carlos and Tommie Smith stance. I guess I see that as a little different. Perhaps it is not. Carlos and Smith's protest was ICONIC. No athlete had done anything like this. No American outside of the country had done this on such a stage. What Kaep did has been done in many ways by many athletes i the past few WEEKS. He couldn't even articulate what he was protesting. Edited August 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_Bills Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I think we are not as forward thinking as a lot of people give us credit for. I think it's enormously hypocritical the stance the country takes as a whole on race and always has, and still has. I also think it's easily the best and most generous country in the history of the world. My only point is that our flag and our precepts allow us to express ourselves and evolve. I think we've done that and will continue (and need to) to do so. Colin or anyone else) who disparages the flag misses the point IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) I have nothing but respect for this particular Marine, who didn't choose his battles. But was he injured fighting in massively ill-conceived wars in the greater Middle East that either failed or are on the cusp of failing? My larger point is that public criticism of badly designed foreign policies should be acceptable in this country without someone waving the bloody shirt in response. ("Waving the bloody shirt" was a catchphrase that took hold after the Civil War when northern supporters of the war effort trotted out wounded war veterans to metaphorically shout down their political opponents, particularly in the North.)Exactly. My gut reaction to that pic is anger at why that kid was sent over there to get blown apart in the first place.To suggest that one can't criticize their country and still advocate for those who volunteered to defend it, it just makes no sense to me. Edited August 28, 2016 by jimmy10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 My only point is that our flag and our precepts allow us to express ourselves and evolve. I think we've done that and will continue (and need to) to do so. Colin or anyone else) who disparages the flag misses the point IMO. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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