Solomon Grundy Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Coming up on 2 years since EJM has won a game under center for the Buffalo Bills. In a few months, it'll be his anniversary of winning a game for the Jacksonville Jags, though. You really think that if EJ was playing with the starting Oline yesterday that he wouldn't have won that game? Rex Ryan thought so. Listen to his halftime interview with Catalana
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 You guys do know that MANY teams didn't think Tyrod Taylor was a "franchise" QB 4 years ago. Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner and Matt Hasselback were other QBs who took years to develop.Warner and Gannon were small school guys and Hasselbeck was behind Favre. EJ has 16 NFL starts and played in 43 games at Florida State (the highest level of college football). Gannon and Warner would compare to someone like Wentz maybe in terms of the need to develop but not EJ.
Solomon Grundy Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Odd argument, Cutler threw for 3,659 yards 21 TDs, 11 INTs with a 92.3 rating last year. Okay Kirby, but if EJ put up those stats then some on here would point to his W-L record. Or his winning pct in playoffs. Simply put, EJ can't win in some people's eyes no matter the situation.
FireChan Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 You really think that if EJ was playing with the starting Oline yesterday that he wouldn't have won that game? Rex Ryan thought so. Listen to his halftime interview with Catalana Are we talking about the exhibition games that don't count vs. BK employees?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Okay Kirby, but if EJ put up those stats then some on here would point to his W-L record. Or his winning pct in playoffs. Simply put, EJ can't win in some people's eyes no matter the situation.I don't disagree that a lot of people are unfair to him. The point is that he never put up those stats so we don't know how he'd be treated.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Odd argument, Cutler threw for 3,659 yards 21 TDs, 11 INTs with a 92.3 rating last year. If we are living in the moment (which is stupid), he looked awful in his preseason game playing with the starters. I swear the people who constantly trash Manuel are the ones who know the least amount of football on this board. EJ was a first round pick who isn't starting anymore. This, he shouldn't be in NFL.
Solomon Grundy Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Warner and Gannon were small school guys and Hasselbeck was behind Favre. EJ has 16 NFL starts and played in 43 games at Florida State (the highest level of college football). Gannon and Warner would compare to someone like Wentz maybe in terms of the need to develop but not EJ. EJs development was hindered due to whatever. When EJ started his first couple of NFL games, he was in an eyelash of beating the Patriots and drove his team down in the waning minutes to beat the Panthers. The promise was there. I'll be back to finish debating later
The Wiz Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Are we talking about the exhibition games that don't count vs. BK employees? yet some people have no problem knocking him while he's at camp or practice. So when he plays decent/good in games that don't matter it doesn't matter but when he performs poorly in practice the pitchforks and torches are OK? Edited August 27, 2016 by The Wiz
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Warner and Gannon were small school guys and Hasselbeck was behind Favre. EJ has 16 NFL starts and played in 43 games at Florida State (the highest level of college football). Gannon and Warner would compare to someone like Wentz maybe in terms of the need to develop but not EJ. See, you're someone who you can have a reasonable discussion about EJ. I know you're not a fan but you make solid points. I think there are people who think EJ's development was dog crap from day 1. They brought Syracuse OC, who has never coached on the NFL level, to be his OC and his QB coach. By contrast, Andrew Luck had Bruce Arians. They decided to run a hurry offense his rookie year. He never could stay healthy and never got to start a bunch of games in a row. I love what the Eagles and Rams' plans seem to be. It's embarrassing how fans freak out about young Qbs. It's probably one of the most pressured filled jobs in the world and people expect 22 year olds to master it in a year. The best thing that happened to Tyrod's career (who was under 60% passer in college) is the Ravens drafted him and he sat behind Flacco. If the Bills drafted him, he wouldn't be on the team or he would be receiving the EJ treatment by the same group of morons.
FireChan Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 yet some people have no problem knocking him while he's at camp or practice. So when he plays decent/good in games that don't matter it doesn't matter but when he performs poorly in practice the pitchforks and torches are OK? If you suck in preseason or practice, that's a negative. If you look good in preseason but suck in real games, that's not really a positive, is it? See, you're someone who you can have a reasonable discussion about EJ. I know you're not a fan but you make solid points. I think there are people who think EJ's development was dog crap from day 1. They brought Syracuse OC, who has never coached on the NFL level, to be his OC and his QB coach. By contrast, Andrew Luck had Bruce Arians. They decided to run a hurry offense his rookie year. He never could stay healthy and never got to start a bunch of games in a row. I love what the Eagles and Rams' plans seem to be. It's embarrassing how fans freak out about young Qbs. It's probably one of the most pressured filled jobs in the world and people expect 22 year olds to master it in a year. The best thing that happened to Tyrod's career (who was under 60% passer in college) is the Ravens drafted him and he sat behind Flacco. If the Bills drafted him, he wouldn't be on the team or he would be receiving the EJ treatment by the same group of morons. EJ had the best season of his career his rookie year running that hurry up offense. Clearly the Syracuse OC knew what he was doing.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 EJs development was hindered due to whatever. When EJ started his first couple of NFL games, he was in an eyelash of beating the Patriots and drove his team down in the waning minutes to beat the Panthers. The promise was there. I'll be back to finish debating later I don't dispute that he was mismanaged. The Bills (and a lot of teams) have done that with young QBs. There's pressure to play them. At the same time he has played a lot of QB and still has the same pros and cons that he had at FSU. At some point you are what you are. He's an inconsistent thrower that tends to lock on and doesn't appear comfortable in the pocket. The good is that he's big, can make all of the throws and appears to be making more decisive decisions. He's a guy that we talk about way too much on this board. He's progressed to be a decent backup. He's not going to be a starter in this league anytime soon unless he plays really well for like a 6 game stretch. He will however remain on someone's roster in the future.
34-78-83 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 I don't dispute that he was mismanaged. The Bills (and a lot of teams) have done that with young QBs. There's pressure to play them. At the same time he has played a lot of QB and still has the same pros and cons that he had at FSU. At some point you are what you are. He's an inconsistent thrower that tends to lock on and doesn't appear comfortable in the pocket. The good is that he's big, can make all of the throws and appears to be making more decisive decisions. He's a guy that we talk about way too much on this board. He's progressed to be a decent backup. He's not going to be a starter in this league anytime soon unless he plays really well for like a 6 game stretch. He will however remain on someone's roster in the future. I don't think anyone (maybe one) in this thread are saying he should be an NFL starter. It's just those who have already determined he 'simply sucks period' that look kind of stupid now.
FireChan Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 I don't think anyone (maybe one) in this thread are saying he should be an NFL starter. It's just those who have already determined he 'simply sucks period' that look kind of stupid now. How so?
The Wiz Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 If you suck in preseason or practice, that's a negative. If you look good in preseason but suck in real games, that's not really a positive, is it? EJ had the best season of his career his rookie year running that hurry up offense. Clearly the Syracuse OC knew what he was doing. Other than Jax what games did he suck in? I'm just gauging your definition of sucked. That was also the only season he played until he was bench for Orton after starting 2-2.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 I don't dispute that he was mismanaged. The Bills (and a lot of teams) have done that with young QBs. There's pressure to play them. At the same time he has played a lot of QB and still has the same pros and cons that he had at FSU. At some point you are what you are. He's an inconsistent thrower that tends to lock on and doesn't appear comfortable in the pocket. The good is that he's big, can make all of the throws and appears to be making more decisive decisions. He's a guy that we talk about way too much on this board. He's progressed to be a decent backup. He's not going to be a starter in this league anytime soon unless he plays really well for like a 6 game stretch. He will however remain on someone's roster in the future. I think that's where most people are at. I just think there is a group ready to pounce on every mistake he makes. That offense around him last night was laughable and he basically had the game won. And Tyrod was under a 60% passer in college, which is terrible projection for his NFL future. So I do believe with the right coaching staff and vets to learn under, you can improve as a qb tremendously. I always admired the way GB would just draft and develop Qbs. I'm in favor of the Bills drafting another qb next year.
FireChan Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Other than Jax what games did he suck in? I'm just gauging your definition of sucked. That was also the only season he played until he was bench for Orton after starting 2-2. He sucked in the Bengals game, he sucked in the Texans game and he sucked in the Chargers game. Different levels of suck, surely but suck he did. He was benched because he sucked. His career was nose diving. Look at the stats from weeks 1-4 in 2014. If he plays against Detroit after that Texans embarrassment, I think he would be out of the league.
34-78-83 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 How so? Because simply he doesn't, and because he has developed on some of his weaknesses like pocket presence and reading the field. Relative to the Qb's available as #2's in the NFL he is in the upper part of that group. Other than one or 2 unique situations across the league, there isn't a guy in that spot that is significantly better than him.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) I think that's where most people are at. I just think there is a group ready to pounce on every mistake he makes. That offense around him last night was laughable and he basically had the game won. And Tyrod was under a 60% passer in college, which is terrible projection for his NFL future. So I do believe with the right coaching staff and vets to learn under, you can improve as a qb tremendously. I always admired the way GB would just draft and develop Qbs. I'm in favor of the Bills drafting another qb next year. One more thing to like about EJ is that he is a classy guy and a hard worker. He's the type of personality that you can be comfortable with as your #2. He's going to show up in shape, work hard to learn the offense. Despite being inconsistent physically he's a really reliable personality. That may not sound important but with all that's going on off the field in the NFL nowadays I think that it's underrated. Edited August 27, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Because simply he doesn't, and because he has developed on some of his weaknesses like pocket presence and reading the field. Relative to the Qb's available as #2's in the NFL he is in the upper part of that group. Other than one or 2 unique situations across the league, there isn't a guy in that spot that is significantly better than him. We heard this all last year and received the Jags abortion. Not buying it. No one looks "kind of stupid" because EJ had a decent preseason game. Edited August 27, 2016 by FireChan
34-78-83 Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 We heard this all last year and received the Jags abortion. Not buying it. No one looks "kind of stupid" because EJ had a decent preseason game. yes many do unfortunately. It's been a 3 year progression as well, not one preseason game. My reply was for Kirby any way ultimately and I've seen enough of your back and forths with other posters to know where this would be going if this wasn't my last direct response. You'll have me somehow saying he's great and should start in the league before long I'm sure thought that's clearly not what I am saying.
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