billsfan89 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 He might be. But he's 25 and has had a different DC every year of his career. Believe it or not, he had more sacks in his first 3 years than Hughes did. Would you have said Hughes was horrible when we got him? IMO, these are those subtle, no real loss moves, good teams make. If this guy could have been gotten for a 7th or so, I'd take him on the Bills. Exactly low risk high reward. There is a reason he was drafted high and the Browns are where good players don't always flourish and the Pats* get the most out of everyone most times. Granted he could suck, let's not pretend that every player the Pats* try to resurrect always does well. For every Dion Lewis or Randy Moss there is a Albert Haynesworth or Chad Ochocinco. But with a low cost move such as this you really only waste a 7th round selection and some playing time. But the payoff is so much greater.
Doc Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Low risk potential high reward...but likely no return. Kind of what I expected. And trading Jonathan Cooper for Chandler Jones was a mistake. Jones is averaging a sack a game while Cooper has also barely seen the field.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Low risk potential high reward...but likely no return. Kind of what I expected. And trading Jonathan Cooper for Chandler Jones was a mistake. Jones is averaging a sack a game while Cooper has also barely seen the field. This is the opposite of our Shephard/Hughes and Kiko/McCoy trades. And Mingo isnt performing a fraction as well as Z Brown and LorAx. But, you know... Fire Whaley!
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Low risk potential high reward...but likely no return. Kind of what I expected. And trading Jonathan Cooper for Chandler Jones was a mistake. Jones is averaging a sack a game while Cooper has also barely seen the field. To be fair they got their starting LG Joe Thuney and Malcolm Mitchell from the 2nd round pick (traded to N.O for their 3rd/4th). Is Cooper still hurt? or just no good? Either way - they got rid of stork and have better depth than they had a year ago. Chris Long's looked solid so far this year too.
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 To be fair they got their starting LG Joe Thuney and Malcolm Mitchell from the 2nd round pick (traded to N.O for their 3rd/4th). Is Cooper still hurt? or just no good? Either way - they got rid of stork and have better depth than they had a year ago. Chris Long's looked solid so far this year too. Cooper has been a healthy scratch
Freddie's Dead Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Mingo ate my baby Waited all day yesterday to drop the "Mingo Ate My Baby" reference.
Malazan Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 This is the opposite of our Shephard/Hughes and Kiko/McCoy trades. And Mingo isnt performing a fraction as well as Z Brown and LorAx. But, you know... Fire Whaley! Hey, Eagles got a lot of Kiko. he was part of the deal that they somehow got Miami to agree to that rid them of Maxwell's contract.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 My thoughts are the same as they were before he was (over) drafted: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/157540-who-will-be-this-years-draft-sliders-and-busts/?p=2786146 repost
Freddie's Dead Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Hey, Eagles got a lot of Kiko. he was part of the deal that they somehow got Miami to agree to that rid them of Maxwell's contract. Kiko seems to be back on track. 7th in tackles at 38 and two fumble recoveries. Good for him, it just took him two seasons to come all the way back.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 So are we mocking a 3-1 team that played with their 2nd and 3rd string Qbs for trading a 7th round pick? How about that Bryce Brown trade! And I still won't mind the Bills trading a low pick for former 1st rounders.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 So are we mocking a 3-1 team that played with their 2nd and 3rd string Qbs for trading a 7th round pick? How about that Bryce Brown trade! And I still won't mind the Bills trading a low pick for former 1st rounders. I think that it's just further evidence that the Patriots jersey doesn't all of a sudden magically make someone that they are not. This isn't MMQBing the decision. It was a chance worth taking but it shouldn't come as a surprise that he stinks. He always has. There was a sentiment for a long time that everything they do turns to gold. Chandler, Hogan, Cooper, Mingo, Bennett, etc... are the same players that they were prior. If they were good before, they are good now, if they weren't they aren't magically better. I don't mind trading late round picks for talent either. There comes a point where you are what your record says you are. Chris Williams was a 1st round pick that we added that sucked prior and sucked here. Mingo is pretty much the same. There are other guys, like Jerry Hughes that just needed a change of scenery. It's a chance worth taking but the results won't necessarily change.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 I think that it's just further evidence that the Patriots jersey doesn't all of a sudden magically make someone that they are not. This isn't MMQBing the decision. It was a chance worth taking but it shouldn't come as a surprise that he stinks. He always has. There was a sentiment for a long time that everything they do turns to gold. Chandler, Hogan, Cooper, Mingo, Bennett, etc... are the same players that they were prior. If they were good before, they are good now, if they weren't they aren't magically better. I don't mind trading late round picks for talent either. There comes a point where you are what your record says you are. Chris Williams was a 1st round pick that we added that sucked prior and sucked here. Mingo is pretty much the same. There are other guys, like Jerry Hughes that just needed a change of scenery. It's a chance worth taking but the results won't necessarily change. I agree but it's weird to mock the Pats. They have nine million picks every year so it's a good move to take a risk on a former high pick. Also, I'll reserve judgment on Hogan until he plays with a qb who is. Apable of completing passes to receivers.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 So are we mocking a 3-1 team that played with their 2nd and 3rd string Qbs for trading a 7th round pick? How about that Bryce Brown trade! And I still won't mind the Bills trading a low pick for former 1st rounders. Whaley signed Zach Brown as a FA. The Hooded Genius traded a 7th for Bark Mingo. As Dr. Phil would say "How's that working out for you?"
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Whaley signed Zach Brown as a FA. The Hooded Genius traded a 7th for Bark Mingo. As Dr. Phil would say "How's that working out for you?" The Bills made a good move and the Pats are 3-1. I think they are fine with everything.
billsfan89 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) People laud the Zach Brown signing now as they should but Brown was a former 2nd round pick (52nd overall a fairly high draft pick) who was viewed as a bust by the Titans and signed a fairly low 1 year 2.5 million deal (Clearly not much of a market for him in the off-season.) Brown was valued as a role player (Coverage linebacker) who could add some depth to the team. Sometimes reclamation projects work out or guys step up above what they were expected to be. Not saying this move will work out for the Pats* but it's a chance worth taking. Edited October 3, 2016 by billsfan89
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Zach wasn't viewed as a bust by the Titans. While he wasn't a superstar in that system, They let him walk like we let Nigel walk. Can't keep everyone. Bills expected Zach to start when they signed him. They didn't know Reggie would fall to the 2nd, and grabbed him. Reggie may or may not have started over Zach, we don't know. Edited October 3, 2016 by YoloinOhio
BADOLBILZ Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 This is the opposite of our Shephard/Hughes and Kiko/McCoy trades. And Mingo isnt performing a fraction as well as Z Brown and LorAx. But, you know... Fire Whaley! More like Fire Patricia! I wouldn't have traded a 5th for him but if Mingo were here I think he'd be playing well. Manny Lawson was damn near AWFUL for two full seasons and then became the front 7 MVP in Rex D..........it's just veteran LB-friendly system. Zach wasn't viewed as a bust by the Titans. While he wasn't a superstar in that system, They let him walk like we let Nigel walk. Can't keep everyone. Bills expected Zach to start when they signed him. They didn't know Reggie would fall to the 2nd, and grabbed him. Reggie may or may not have started over Zach, we don't know. Rex and Whaley on Ragland on draft day: "Day one starter" "We didn't expect him to fall" = "we know we need to sell this a little to those skeptical of early drafting slower ILB's into the current NFL when they are plentiful and cheap in FA".
Malazan Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Kiko seems to be back on track. 7th in tackles at 38 and two fumble recoveries. Good for him, it just took him two seasons to come all the way back. No. His tackles stat is misleading. He's not terrible like he was with Philly, but he can't shed blocks and his tackles are at the 2nd level. His coverage skills haven't been great either.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 I agree but it's weird to mock the Pats. They have nine million picks every year so it's a good move to take a risk on a former high pick. Also, I'll reserve judgment on Hogan until he plays with a qb who is. Apable of completing passes to receivers. I've made some sarcastic comments here, but Im not mocking the Pats. Rather, Im trying to highlight the fact that not every move the Pats FO makes is gold. They do not hit on all (or even most) of their draft picks. They make bad FA signings and trades dont work out for them as well. Possibly even more so than the Bills over the last 15 years, except theyve been solid at the most crucial position with one player for 15 years. When people talk about cleaning house and bringing in a guy like Caserio, as if he's been perfect or even better in his moves... smdh More like Fire Patricia! I wouldn't have traded a 5th for him but if Mingo were here I think he'd be playing well. Manny Lawson was damn near AWFUL for two full seasons and then became the front 7 MVP in Rex D..........it's just veteran LB-friendly system. Ha! Sure, fire Patricia too! I liked Mingo, and agree, if anyone could get him playing well, it would be here. I've been surprised that NFL coaches couldnt get him to perform, but then again, LSU is probably a more stable organization than the Cleveland Browns.
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