This woman is a scumbag, and rightly should burn in hell.

[Dorkington]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

 

Exactly.

 

The problem in the US is the inordinate power of businesses over the political system.

Don't be silly. If you can't make a knee jerk reaction based on emotion from the clear facts that initial article contained, then you're just being ridiculous.

Come on, what kind of special do you need to be to think their distribution costs rose enough to warrant a 500% increase in cost to the consumer over 6 years?

[Azalin]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

Careful, wouldn't want to be accused of being "knee-jerk."

 

[Magox]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

 

The patent system for pharmaceuticals is ridiculous. Not sure that would have helped here that much, but without doubt if they shortened the time period which is 20 years, prices would drop. Without doubt!!!!

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

 

Also, it is common practice within the pharmaceutical sector where the patent holders will payoff the generic producers in what is dubbed "pay for delay" to hold off on making the generic version so that they can continue to rape consumers.

There is no bigger racket in our economic society than the pharmaceutical industry. It needs to be seriously reformed and in a huge way.

[GG]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

[Nanker]

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

That's right. Take too much and, well look what it did to this guy:

 

The dose has to be precisely delivered:

Edited August 26, 2016 by Nanker

[DC Tom]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

They don't hold the patent on epinephrine, they hold the patent on EpiPen. And they don't even manufacture the EpiPen. Pfizer does, via their King acquisition. They distribute it...but not direct to consumers. They distribute it to other organizations and companies who sell to consumers. That's why their currently stated plans for "price reduction" are rebate coupons - they can't reduce prices to consumers they don't directly sell to.

 

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than "corporation gouging the consumer."

[Joe Miner]

 

Exactly.

 

The problem in the US is the inordinate power of businesses over the political system.

 

Come on, what kind of special do you need to be to think their distribution costs rose enough to warrant a 500% increase in cost to the consumer over 6 years?

When people don't understand how something works (business) or have all the facts (actual cost of manufacturing distributing) they should be smart enough to keep their mouths closed.

 

But feel proud that you can easily be manipulated. Hillary appreciates your stupidity.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

When people don't understand how something works (business) or have all the facts (actual cost of manufacturing distributing) they should be smart enough to keep their mouths closed.

 

But feel proud that you can easily be manipulated. Hillary appreciates your stupidity.

Easily manipulated? Who's the one easily manipulated?

 

I'm sure your corporate overlords appreciate your blind devotion, clown.

 

 

 

What’s unclear is what the justification was for EpiPen’s price hikes in the first place. The profit margin on EpiPens is reportedly extraordinary, with markups easily over 50%. In other countries like Canada, an EpiPen pack sells for under $100, and it’s a safe bet Mylan isn’t losing money on the sales. In America, the shifting health care landscape hasn’t been the cause of Mylan jacking up EpiPen prices, which has been taking place long before Obamacare. It’s just that the rise of high-deductible plans has merely shed light that the price hikes have happened. The price increases that used to be borne by insurers (and ultimately, the customers paying the premiums) have more recently fallen directly to the families paying out of pocket for EpiPens.

 

http://time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

 

So to paraphrase in order that you're able to understand, despite any "distribution costs," Mylan is making a 50% markup BEFORE the product is even handed off to middlemen. But please, feel free to educate all of us about your -clearly- superior understanding of the situation. Is Obamacare a disaster? Sure, I've long said so. Let's not pretend the drug companies are innocent victims, however. They're clearly taking advantage of the situation.

The larger issue here is that between government incompetence and corporate greed, average people are finding an important tool to save lives out of their reach.

Edited August 26, 2016 by joesixpack

[Azalin]

 

 

The patent system for pharmaceuticals is ridiculous. Not sure that would have helped here that much, but without doubt if they shortened the time period which is 20 years, prices would drop. Without doubt!!!!

 

 

Also, it is common practice within the pharmaceutical sector where the patent holders will payoff the generic producers in what is dubbed "pay for delay" to hold off on making the generic version so that they can continue to rape consumers.

There is no bigger racket in our economic society than the pharmaceutical industry. It needs to be seriously reformed and in a huge way.

 

It's things like this that make me realize how naive I can be at times. I'm all for supporting business and industry, but not this kind of crap.

 

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

 

I can just see a school cafeteria version of that scene right now.

 

 

They don't hold the patent on epinephrine, they hold the patent on EpiPen. And they don't even manufacture the EpiPen. Pfizer does, via their King acquisition. They distribute it...but not direct to consumers. They distribute it to other organizations and companies who sell to consumers. That's why their currently stated plans for "price reduction" are rebate coupons - they can't reduce prices to consumers they don't directly sell to.

 

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than "corporation gouging the consumer."

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

[GG]

 

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

Everyone has a hand in it. The issue is what Tom described. Everybody wants to have the branded EpiPen, not a generic version of an adrenaline shot.

[Magox]

 

It's things like this that make me realize how naive I can be at times. I'm all for supporting business and industry, but not this kind of crap.

 

 

I can just see a school cafeteria version of that scene right now.

 

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

 

I am all for free markets, but the pharmaceutical markets aren't free, they are monopolized, rigged and crony capitalistic.

 

Just look at how Obamacare was passed. One of the biggest opponents to Clinton's healthcare plan back in the 90's was Big pharma. The Obama administration learned from that and decided to cut out a deal with Big pharma to gain their support in exchange for the promise of government not putting additional price controls (which they are going to renege) and block some imports from Canada and Europe.

 

It is anything but free markets.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

I am all for free markets, but the pharmaceutical markets aren't free, they are monopolized, rigged and crony capitalistic.

 

Just look at how Obamacare was passed. One of the biggest opponents to Clinton's healthcare plan back in the 90's was Big pharma. The Obama administration learned from that and decided to cut out a deal with Big pharma to gain their support in exchange for the promise of government not putting additional price controls (which they are going to renege) and block some imports from Canada and Europe.

 

It is anything but free markets.

 

Little if anything about our economy could be called a "free market."

 

If there was a free market here, Chrysler, GM, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Wells Fargo, and about two dozen other companies in the last 15 years would have gone under without taxpayer intervention.

[Joe Miner]

Easily manipulated? Who's the one easily manipulated?

 

I'm sure your corporate overlords appreciate your blind devotion, clown.

 

 

http://time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

 

So to paraphrase in order that you're able to understand, despite any "distribution costs," Mylan is making a 50% markup BEFORE the product is even handed off to middlemen. But please, feel free to educate all of us about your -clearly- superior understanding of the situation. Is Obamacare a disaster? Sure, I've long said so. Let's not pretend the drug companies are innocent victims, however. They're clearly taking advantage of the situation.

The larger issue here is that between government incompetence and corporate greed, average people are finding an important tool to save lives out of their reach.

If you'll notice I haven't actually made a claim as to what the issue is.

 

You could be right, but it would only be because you were lucky. You're still an idiot. You don't understand the situation or have all the information, but that hasn't stopped you from proclaiming someone you don't know should burn in hell.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If you'll notice I haven't actually made a claim as to what the issue is.

 

You could be right, but it would only be because you were lucky. You're still an idiot. You don't understand the situation or have all the information, but that hasn't stopped you from proclaiming someone you don't know should burn in hell.

 

You'll pardon me if I have little to no sympathy for a CEO who writes her own paycheck.

 

Hopefully, she'll get hers.

[DC Tom]

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

Of course. It's called the FDA. They doubled EpiPen sales when they declared that TWO shots of epinephrine were necessary to treat anaphylactic shock (and Mylan responded by making double EpiPen packs and ceasing production of single packs...because FDA.)

 

And Congress. Hell, Congress passed a law requiring schools to stock EpiPens (probably "epinephrine auto-injectors," but phrased in a way that only EpiPens were suitable.) And while Mylan basically donates them to schools...it's still reduces supply available to the market. (And note that many of these (*^*&%^$^#Congressmen who passed - and sponsored - the law are the same ones now bitching about the situation they're in part responsible for creating.)

 

Not that I hold Mylan blameless...I just don't know what to blame them for (I went through their financials - I'm still not sure what, beyond brand management and being the middleman between King and pharmaceutical providers, they contribute to this whole process.) But it's the perfect example of what's wrong with the pharmaceutical industry in the US: a byzantine mix of Congressional meddling, regulatory stupidity, patent law, corporate lobbying, multiple independent middlemen, and business practices that are, even if scrupulously honest, are inscrutable.

[KD in CA]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

 

The problem is only one party is characterized as being greedy and not caring about the little guy while the other party is characterized as a champion of the little guy. Perhaps if more people could be honest about all politicians, problems like this would be easier to identify and address.

[snafu]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

Not only that, you have to replace the things every year because they only have a 1 year shelf life. Makes me wonder if that's legit, but who wants to take the chance? At the very least the company can offer a rebate for turning in expired epi-pens so they can recycle them. Might bring the cost down, too.

[DC Tom]

At the very least the company can offer a rebate for turning in expired epi-pens so they can recycle them.

 

Probably against FDA regulations.