Thailog80 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Donahoe article Props to the Philster. The records since TD left jumped out at me. But TD wasnt handed the keys to a Ferrari either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 I didnt realize this article was on the front of TBD already......sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 The Rooneys are cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 The Rooneys are very loyal to their head coach. Hell, I would take Bill Cowher in a NY minute for the Bills head coach. If I'm not mistaken I think the Steelers have had 3 head coaches in the past 30 years. Take a look at Tom Donahoe's draft choices with the Steelers and see who he passed on and who he selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 The Rooneys are very loyal to their head coach. Hell, I would take Bill Cowher in a NY minute for the Bills head coach. If I'm not mistaken I think the Steelers have had 3 head coaches in the past 30 years. Take a look at Tom Donahoe's draft choices with the Steelers and see who he passed on and who he selected. 18796[/snapback] You can say that for all GM's. Hindsight is 20/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 17-31 since he's been here, but some people on this board love the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Bill Cowher... didn't he get fined for stuffing a picture inside a referees pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 17-31 since he's been here, but some people on this board love the guy 18805[/snapback] Built the Stellers into a superbowl team as well. The Steelers were in the playoffs quite a bit in his reign there si well. He came here and wiped the slate clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 LMAO I could care less for what he did in Pittsburgh, He's in Buffalo now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 17-31 since he's been here, but some people on this board love the guy 18805[/snapback] I may be alone in my thinking, but I don't think it's completely fair throwing 17-31 around with Donahoe. It's accurate, but not altogether fair. I'm not so quick to hold Donahoe completely accountable for 3-13, which he basically inherited. There was little to nothing he could do with his hands financially strapped by a bunch of players who were past their prime. It happened on his watch, so it is a part of his record. But you if you take away the crap he interited from Butler, he is suddenly 14-18 in two seasons. And that ain't so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 I may be alone in my thinking, but I don't think it's completely fair throwing 17-31 around with Donahoe. It's accurate, but not altogether fair. I'm not so quick to hold Donahoe completely accountable for 3-13, which he basically inherited. There was little to nothing he could do with his hands financially strapped by a bunch of players who were past their prime. It happened on his watch, so it is a part of his record. But you if you take away the crap he interited from Butler, he is suddenly 14-18 in two seasons. And that ain't so bad. 18822[/snapback] Excellant point my left coast brutha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 17-31 since he's been here, but some people on this board love the guy 18805[/snapback] He has done a great job cleaning up the mess that John Butler dumped on the bills. Pittsburghs loss is Buffalo's gain. Just look how long it took Cowher to realize that Kordell Stewart REALLY STINKS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 LMAO I could care less for what he did in Pittsburgh, He's in Buffalo now 18821[/snapback] You do realize he basically scrapped his 1st year right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 It's my understanding Tom Doanhoe is the man that was in love with Kordella and signed him to an extension. Who passed on Jevon Kearse? Look at Donahoe picks while he was with the Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 He then after wanted to cut him. Cowher wanted to keep him. Cowher what a pig head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I may be alone in my thinking, but I don't think it's completely fair throwing 17-31 around with Donahoe. It's accurate, but not altogether fair. I'm not so quick to hold Donahoe completely accountable for 3-13, which he basically inherited. There was little to nothing he could do with his hands financially strapped by a bunch of players who were past their prime. It happened on his watch, so it is a part of his record. But you if you take away the crap he interited from Butler, he is suddenly 14-18 in two seasons. And that ain't so bad. 18822[/snapback] I think it is more than fair to measure TD based on 17-31 record because like it or not, the fact is it happened on his watch. That being said, it is also intelligent to take into account everything that happened to create this record in making the different decision of whether you keep him or not. I think the 3-13 his first year in total was actually a necessary thing and ultimately a good thing because it happened in conjunction with TD doing some necessary housecleaning of left-overs from the Butler day. The Bill might have upped their 3-13 record to 6-10 if TD had gone a bit more slowly in cutting the Butler drive losses and held on to a few aging former pro Bowlers Butler signed to cadillac contracts. However, TD didn't do this and cut talent to get out of cap hell. As it turned out we got out of cap hell much sooner than expected. The team's performance turned around with a .500 record his second year thanks to some additional innovative work to get better players. The 3-13 record should not be forgotten and heavily taken into account because it was part of a positive story for TD as long as he turned the rcord around. Likewise the 6-10 record last year should be heavily taken into account because his thrid year was when one reasonably should see the turnaround really payoff (as it did in Carolina). Here I think the Cowher events came back to haunt us big time as in my mind TDs HC hiring decision of GW was driven by the very human and understandable drive of TD saying 'never again' in terms of getting vanned by a guy he hired. GW was simply a bad hire by TD. I see this as true not because GW was a bad guy (he was and is a D genius and he exited the Buffalo scene with as much grace as a failure at HC can muster- he was rewarded for this with getting more $ to DC for the Skins). This was true in my mind because TD did not hire someone who was probably good that he might not be able to control (Marvin Lewis and probably Fox in terms of how he and TD hit it off). Instead he hired GW who might be good but TD could definitely control. As it turned out GW was not up to taking on the full duties of the HC wel enough ti succeed. Even worse, TD seemed to deal with this not by helping GW do a better job by forcefully over-ridding GW when he disagreed with his choices, but instead giving GW room to fail with his choices and then blaming GW for those failures by firing him. It is legit for TD to hold GW accountable for hiring his staff as a rookie HC and this staff proved not to have enough exeperience. It is legit for TD to hold GW accountable and ultimately to fire him for never really getting the O to be productive. However, as a Bills fan I wish that TD had been a little bit more heavy-handed in pushing for his choice Clements as the replacement OC for the not-ready for primetime GW choice Sheppard. Gilbride was a good political chice by GW as how could TD say no to guy he hired before. However, it is now obvious (and it was actually obvious after the 2002 season when DCs began to catch-up to the KG game once they got a little game tape to watch) that KG was a bad choice and TD wanted someone different. Rather than allowing GW to make his own bed and then correctly fire him if he did not produce good results, I would have rather seen TD be a GM and get theguys hired he though could do the best job (Clements rather than KG, maube Clements will suck as an OC as well, but KG certainly did). I fault TD for hiring GW who was more of a good administrative assistant with his lists, flowcharts and contacts than a good HC. Both Fox and Lewis who were both available with no competition as we had the last HC opening that season proved to be far more successful HCs in terms of their records (the situations were different, but the records of achievement over their HC careers are obviously different as well). This might have been OK if TD hadn't made a second error I think he can be reasonably faulted upon by this outside observer. if you arew going to hire a great potential AA rather than a great potential HC then treat him like an AA rather than as an HC. If the TEAM was going to succeed, TD did not need to allow GW to make his own bed to be judged, but insted he needed to exert his own strong hand and make sure the bed was made well. I think TD can be faulted for: 1. Not forcing the hiring of Clements over KG as he apparently wanted to do. 2. Not forcing the use of former OC Stessel as OC and firing KG when he was obviously pass-happy and ran a poor O. 3. Actually stevetojan-canning GWs second choice as OC would have undercut him anyway, but you ended up firing GW anyway so what. The smart thing to do would have been to can GW after two seasons when even I could see he was not up to the job. 4. Identifying up front that GW was making a bad move hiring his buddy Vinklarek to be OL coach when he had no experience at the position. The hiring of JMac shows you know how important the position is and why a not-ready-for-primetime guy such as Ruel was allowed to be hired to replace Vinky simply seems bizarre. 5. Really going in a different direction with ST under GW than using his buddy whathisname who was the best of the co-ordinators hired by GW but did not produce satisfactory results. This is a particularly weird area because TD clearly realized GW's weakness in hiring lieutenants as he forced/oversaw the firing of Sheppard. He participated strongly in the supplementing of Gray with LeBeau. he provided ready recourse for KG by bringing on Stessel though the trigger was never pulled onthis replacement. As it turned out, Gray proved to be a good lieutenant who mastered the LeBeau D by doing great playcalling with it last season. Further, i think he has shown good ability to adjust not only on the fly in games but in making longer-term adjustments during the bye week and over the season. He has gained the permission of the D players to discipline them which is crucial in this age of partnership between the NFL and NFLPA. However, in the end, this is TD's team and he really needed to put/cajole/force his mark on it rather than hiring an HC who was not up to the job and then letting him make his own bed so that he could fire him if he failed and the HC could not successfully fire him if he succeded. I think TD can certainly be faulted but mostly not for putting his neck on the line to succeed or not succeed. As it stands, he gets one mulligan and GW was it. So far so-good with MM, but if he fails then TDs neck is clearly on the line with this hire in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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