Captain_Quint Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 It amazes me that you think your smarter than Whaley and Monos. I think what Bad-nuts is trying to say is that he's smarter than ALL the gm's, not just Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I have no issue with the position either...........I have issue with drafting for need when needs change significantly from year to year. Will Shaq and RR be better than a guy like Manny Lawson who....to be kind......probably couldn't start for another team in the league? If not then they will be outright busts. I've never predicted that. I don't even want to think about that. When you aim low to start you hope to at least hit the target. The question for me is will these guys be the kind of impactful players that can transition from one scheme to the next if necessary and still be impactful. I don't think Shaq is the kind of guy that can be a 10 sack guy in a one gap 4-3 attack. I don't think Ragnuts would cut it as an every down 4-3 MLB. I could be wrong.......but that's what I see. Limited players who were drafted as much because they seemed closer to ready than other rookies might be as because of the potential impact they can have. Lawson was one of the Bills' four best defenders last season. He played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 A small note in this conversation. I am seeing a bit of "the bills could have done this.....traded back to do that...etc etc in the Sammy Watkins draft) I would just like to point out that had the bills NOT done that....it is widely speculated we would have drafted a TE who is not done anything in the league and now is out with an injury. It is sometimes the draft pick you DONT make that ends up being the positive thing....not because of of great GMing but because they went right instead of left in the fork of the NFL draft road.....they instead gambled with picks on a player in Sammy Watkins. Now....you can complain that they should have done this or should have done that....just keep in mind that it could have actually been much much worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 The new CBA is impacting O-linemen as they are getting less practice time. O-linemen need all the reps they can get with learning which angles to take, where to place their hands, etc... When there were two a day practices, linemen could develop faster...not so much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Crazy question- IF Cyrus looks good at LT all preseason and we know what Glenn is AND Henderson can play LT. Do we try to send Cyrus to someone in desperate need of a LT and get a pick(s)? I mean if this whole knee and can only play on the left side is accurate, or perceived to be accurate, why not try to get someone to give us something? I would take a second next draft and a third in 2018. Cyrus will probably walk after his rookie contract, no? Edited August 23, 2016 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Crazy question- IF Cyrus looks good at LT all preseason and we know what Glenn is AND Henderson can play LT. Do we try to send Cyrus to someone in desperate need of a LT and get a pick(s)? I mean if this whole knee and can only play on the left side is accurate, or perceived to be accurate, why not try t get someone to give us something? Cyrus will probably walk after his rookie contract, no? It is a crazy question. Nobody is trading for Cyrus Kouandjio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Crazy question- IF Cyrus looks good at LT all preseason and we know what Glenn is AND Henderson can play LT. Do we try to send Cyrus to someone in desperate need of a LT and get a pick(s)? I mean if this whole knee and can only play on the left side is accurate, or perceived to be accurate, why not try to get someone to give us something? I would take a second next draft and a third in 2018. Cyrus will probably walk after his rookie contract, no? It's a bit crazier than suggesting we move Glenn to RT. Don't remember where I read that one but I definitely read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Is Cyrus Kouandjio Still a Bust? He never was. It takes three years to know. This is the start of year three. He was a guy who looked like he might eventually bust. Now he's a guy who looks like he might not be a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Crazy question- IF Cyrus looks good at LT all preseason and we know what Glenn is AND Henderson can play LT. Do we try to send Cyrus to someone in desperate need of a LT and get a pick(s)? I mean if this whole knee and can only play on the left side is accurate, or perceived to be accurate, why not try to get someone to give us something? I would take a second next draft and a third in 2018. Cyrus will probably walk after his rookie contract, no? I just dont understand this line of thinking If Kujo looks decent then why wouldnt WE keep him......where is our OT depth to do that? Kujo has not done squat.....if he starts playing decent we should not assume he walks.....he isnt gonna get big money on the market and he would be worth more to us then another NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 It's a bit crazier than suggesting we move Glenn to RT. Don't remember where I read that one but I definitely read it. I'm just glad that the "Glenn should be a left guard because someone said it four years ago" thing has died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) A small note in this conversation. I am seeing a bit of "the bills could have done this.....traded back to do that...etc etc in the Sammy Watkins draft) I would just like to point out that had the bills NOT done that....it is widely speculated we would have drafted a TE who is not done anything in the league and now is out with an injury. It is sometimes the draft pick you DONT make that ends up being the positive thing....not because of of great GMing but because they went right instead of left in the fork of the NFL draft road.....they instead gambled with picks on a player in Sammy Watkins. Now....you can complain that they should have done this or should have done that....just keep in mind that it could have actually been much much worse You're right, could've been much worse. Or much better. It doesn't salve my feelings any to say things could have been worse. You can correctly say that about nearly any complicated decision you made. Gotta be an absolutely horrible decision if you couldn't have done a worse job with it. Another decision they did not make ... was to avoid the trade and then pick Beckham. Or Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson or Jarvis Landry. That draft was widely considered an absolutely terrific one for WRs well before the draft. Brandin Cooks too. If they had taken Ebron the problem would have been picking Ebron. Could've picked Ebron and then maybe Donte Moncrief in the third. Still had the first rounder the next year and looked like geniuses. And by the way, Ebron's another guy who's not a bust ... yet. Heck, could've picked Martinis Bryant in the 4th instead of Ross Cockrell, a perfect Steelers-Bills trade-off. Edited August 23, 2016 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Or much better. Another decision they did not make ... was to avoid the trade and then pick Beckham. Or Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson or Jarvis Landry. That draft was widely considered an absolutely terrific one for WRs well before the draft. If they had taken Ebron the problem would have been picking Ebron. Could've picked Ebron and then maybe Robinson in the third. Still had the first rounder the next year and looked like geniuses. And by the way, Ebron's another guy who's not a bust ... yet. Glass is half empty Glass is half full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Could've picked Ebron and then maybe Donte Moncrief in the third. Still had the first rounder the next year and looked like geniuses. And by the way, Ebron's another guy who's not a bust ... yet. Heck, could've picked Martinis Bryant in the 4th instead of Ross Cockrell, a perfect Steelers-Bills trade-off. I am sorry but Moncrief and Bryant do not belong in a conversation that relates to should the Bills have traded up and drafted Sammy Watkins. That is like saying you didn't need that new iphone because you have an early 00s Nokia phone in the drawer somewhere. Sure you can make calls with both but you can just do so much more with that new top of the range iphone. Edited August 23, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 You're right, could've been much worse. Or much better. It doesn't salve my feelings any to say things could have been worse. You can correctly say that about nearly any complicated decision you made. Gotta be an absolutely horrible decision if you couldn't have done a worse job with it. Another decision they did not make ... was to avoid the trade and then pick Beckham. Or Kelvin Benjamin or Allen Robinson or Jarvis Landry. That draft was widely considered an absolutely terrific one for WRs well before the draft. Brandin Cooks too. If they had taken Ebron the problem would have been picking Ebron. Could've picked Ebron and then maybe Donte Moncrief in the third. Still had the first rounder the next year and looked like geniuses. And by the way, Ebron's another guy who's not a bust ... yet. Heck, could've picked Martinis Bryant in the 4th instead of Ross Cockrell, a perfect Steelers-Bills trade-off. There's a lot of suspended/inconsistent/hurt/can't catch ball guys in the "what we could've done" category. The draft is, and will remain a crap shoot. I wish Doug would stock pile picks, but that's not his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I just dont understand this line of thinking If Kujo looks decent then why wouldnt WE keep him......where is our OT depth to do that? Kujo has not done squat.....if he starts playing decent we should not assume he walks.....he isnt gonna get big money on the market and he would be worth more to us then another NFL team. Ok, i know it was crazy! What if Kujo comes in and plays great in relief of an injured Glenn for 5 games this year? Do you think he has value next off season? Would you trade him then while he has high value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Ok, i know it was crazy! What if Kujo comes in and plays great in relief of an injured Glenn for 5 games this year? Do you think he has value next off season? Would you trade him then while he has high value? No I would not.....because we might have a viable backup LT What are we gonna trade him for? A draft pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Lawson was one of the Bills' four best defenders last season. He played well. Agreed........so which other teams was he going to be starting at OLB for last year? He came to Buffalo as a reserve and *essentially* was the run specialist rotated with Jerry Hughes and then he was the worst player on the field in Schwartz D. He is just a fit in Rex D because it's unique. He is a vet and very smart. His lack of speed, quickness and pass rush ability isn't an issue because he is always where he is supposed to be to fulfill his run and pass coverage responsibilities and has the length to make the plays in those areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm just glad that the "Glenn should be a left guard because someone said it four years ago" thing has died. OMG, the pain of reading such conceptual horror. Is it gone? But still moving him to RT is on the table it seems. aaarggh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Well, as you know, I'm not huge on drafting for need either. I have a slightly higher opinion of Manny than you do; I think he goes in the category of starter-on-about-1/3-of-teams. Your point about this being his best fit, however, is dead-on, given that his greatest assets are coverage ability and funneling ball carriers. I know you and I differ on Shaq--I don't think that was an aim-low pick. It was definitely a need pick, as the ceiling pick there was Myles Jack. I agree on Ragland--that was a need move that reeked of desperation. The irony of it, IMO, is that taking Jack at 19 would've meant that they could stand pat at 49 with their ILB already in the fold and had another 4th round pick in their back pocket; I wasn't a fan of that move. For me, I always feel that "stick to your board" is the best philosophy. No pick has shown me the value of that approach more than Darby. At the time, he wasn't considered a "need" pick because the team had Gilmore, McKelvin, Graham, and Robey, who were all coming off of solid-if-unspectacular seasons at CB. Lo-and-behold, come week 1, it was downright critical that Darby be in the starting lineup. The cream always floats to the top. I like Manny just fine.....he was absolutely awful in Schwartz D and arrived in Buffalo a reserve from Cinci........but he is excellent in Rex D......I don't see a similar fit for him anywhere else in the league. Said it before, Bills second round picks in years they didn't have a first round pick: Thurman Thomas Sam Cowart Roscoe Parrish Ronald Darby A HOF'er......a DPOY caliber All Pro in Cowart and a legit DROY candidate. 3 grand slams in 4 at bats. I don't think it is any coincidence that in years where the team doesn't have a first round pick it's much harder for the organization to spend months building a draft strategy around patching holes. The pressure is palpably lessened and it's simply easier to stick to that board. The board wins. Edited August 24, 2016 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Agreed........so which other teams was he going to be starting at OLB for last year? He came to Buffalo as a reserve and *essentially* was the run specialist rotated with Jerry Hughes and then he was the worst player on the field in Schwartz D. He is just a fit in Rex D because it's unique. He is a vet and very smart. His lack of speed, quickness and pass rush ability isn't an issue because he is always where he is supposed to be to fulfill his run and pass coverage responsibilities and has the length to make the plays in those areas. You are not good in pass coverage if you are slow. I agree that your not gonna get pass rush from him....it was never his forte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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