Beerball Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 ??? We would save on his cap hit if we cut him. Is this fact?
Fixxxer Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 He played many plays well. But, he did get beat when EJ came in and EJ was blindsided....of course, TT would step out of the way, but EJ was clueless and got wiped out......still, it was on Kujo. Also, when the Bills went for 2 after the third TD......TT had to call timeout....as Kujo was not on the field......leaving TT to spot there was not left tackle. So, 23, a third year pro...and his head not yet in the game so to speak. Still, he does look much better than I expected this summer. And, I would not rule out the bad knee theory about his best position. Of course, we have CG......and, moving CG to right tackle to make room for Kujo seems nuts to me as has been suggested elsewhere. Still, we might have a better line overall if we did that. I am guessing Kujo will play out his rookie contract here and be gone..who knows where. Maybe I forgot about the play you're referring but I saw Cujo beat cleanly once last night, against Vernon Olivier with a quick move inside where EJ had no chance. Some players need time to develop and as KTD pointed out, Cujo was a very young rookie by NFL standards and wasn't ready to come in and step up to that RT spot.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) I think he still costs too much money to be cut.No he could easily be cut with little financial backlash. His dead cap hit this year is under $1M. You save money by cutting him. It's 100% a football decision. I've been a critic of him but he certainly appears to have turned a corner. He looks to have locked down a the swing tackle spot. NoSaint hit the nail on the head in that is probably a middle of the road spot for a 2nd round guy. He was certainly a bust until this camp. I didn't think that he had a shot at making the team. He looks to have become a contributing NFL player. I wouldn't call him a bust or a good 2nd round pick. He's pretty good depth. Is this fact?About $400K Edited August 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Not at all. You have labeled him a bust. What I'm trying to find out is what the word means to you. It means the definition of a bust. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_(sports) When a drafted player does not meet their expectations. No one, including Doug Whaley, was hoping that Kujo would have a good moment or two in his 3rd year of preseason. No one, including Doug Whaley, expected Kujo to not meaningfully contribute at all in his first two years. He didn't live up to his draft status. He's a bust. It's that simple. Not all busts are created equal. Think of Hitner/Spiller vs. Leaf/Manziel. All busts. Different degrees.
Beerball Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 No he could easily be cut with little financial backlash. His dead cap hit this year is under $1M. It's 100% a football decision. I've been a critic of him but he certainly appears to have turned a corner. He looks to have locked down a the swing tackle spot. NoSaint hit the nail on the head in that is probably a middle of the road spot for a 2nd round guy. He was certainly a bust until this camp. I didn't think that he had a shot at making the team. He looks to have become a contributing NFL player. I wouldn't call him a bust or a good 2nd round pick. He's pretty good depth. About $400K Chump change.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Chump change.Yeah, it's not huge savings but the decision to keep him or not won't be financially motivated.
Beerball Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 It means the definition of a bust. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_(sports) When a drafted player does not meet their expectations. No one, including Doug Whaley, was hoping that Kujo would have a good moment or two in his 3rd year of preseason. No one, including Doug Whaley, expected Kujo to not meaningfully contribute at all in his first two years. He didn't live up to his draft status. He's a bust. It's that simple. Not all busts are created equal. Think of Hitner/Spiller vs. Leaf/Manziel. All busts. Different degrees. I don't want some wiki definition, I want to know what a bust is in your words, please. Because most people would label a football player a bust after it was decided that he had nothing to offer on the field. It seems, to me, that you may be omitting the word potential from your blanket statement. Could that be true?
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) I don't want some wiki definition, I want to know what a bust is in your words, please. Because most people would label a football player a bust after it was decided that he had nothing to offer on the field. It seems, to me, that you may be omitting the word potential from your blanket statement. Could that be true? When a drafted player does not meet expectations. I literally just defined it. And gave examples. Edited August 21, 2016 by FireChan
Nervous Guy Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Not at all. You have labeled him a bust. What I'm trying to find out is what the word means to you.he might be calling him a boob.
Beerball Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 When a drafted player does not meet expectations. I literally just defined it. But, when is the decision made (literally)? And, since in your definition he is a bust, and since he does not negatively affect the cap; he should be cut?
Webster Guy Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Whaley said he was the biggest surprise of camp so far, although he might be a little biased because he's not wanting to have whiffed on a 2nd round pick. Kujo's got the perfect tackle body, maybe he will come around and be productive. I don't trust him to be an LT yet until he has a good regular season showing against a decent pass rusher all day
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 But, when is the decision made (literally)? And, since in your definition he is a bust, and since he does not negatively affect the cap; he should be cut? The decision is made every day that he does not meet expectations. He still has not. If he plays at a decent starter level this year, things may change. Until then, he's a bust. No. I wouldn't cut him.
Beerball Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 The decision is made every day that he does not meet expectations. He still has not. If he plays at a decent starter level this year, things may change. Until then, he's a bust. No. I wouldn't cut him. What % of second round draft picks end up making an impact in the NFL? Would you consider the "swing tackle" role to be an important one on a football team?
Nervous Guy Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 What % of second round draft picks end up making an impact in the NFL? Would you consider the "swing tackle" role to be an important one on a football team? oh I know this one...."2nd and 3rd round draftees from 2010 have started roughly 34% and 36% of all possible games, respectively." http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/#3304615928ea
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 What % of second round draft picks end up making an impact in the NFL? Would you consider the "swing tackle" role to be an important one on a football team? All second rounds are not created equal. The 2014 Draft was regarded as one of the deepest drafts in years. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pick #44 to contribute in their first two years. Importance is relative. Less important than backups at any skill position, surely. And when Kujo is playing swing tackle (because he can't beat out Jordan Mills, a fifth round pick in one of the worst drafts in NFL history) I find it very difficult to say, "yeah he's irreplaceable in a very important position."
Kirby Jackson Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 What % of second round draft picks end up making an impact in the NFL? Would you consider the "swing tackle" role to be an important one on a football team? I know this is a few years old but it looks good to me. He would appear better than roughly 1/3 of 2nd round picks at this point. http://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 I know this is a few years old but it looks good to me. He would appear better than roughly 1/3 of 2nd round picks at this point. http://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/ From your link, he's a bust.... Now, with early round picks, the expectation is a lot higher than just contributing on the field. With a first or second round pick, an NFL team is expecting a player that can come in, start, and contribute for years to come. With that in mind, our second method for setting the bar for a “bust” is that the player starts for less than one year or plays less than 40 games in their career.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) From your link, he's a bust.... Now, with early round picks, the expectation is a lot higher than just contributing on the field. With a first or second round pick, an NFL team is expecting a player that can come in, start, and contribute for years to come. With that in mind, our second method for setting the bar for a bust is that the player starts for less than one year or plays less than 40 games in their career. He probably checks the 2nd box (or at least will). He certainly has been a bust so far and it's rare that guys turn a corner. He was 21 years old and super raw so maybe it just took some time? I wouldn't be surprised at this point if he became a decent NFL starter. I like him in the swing tackle role. I can't believe that I am saying any of this because I thought that he was one of the worst few guys on the 90 man roster let alone the 53. CK as a contributing NFL player is a huge win from what I thought that he would be after the last few years. Edited August 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 He probably check the 2nd box (or at least will). He certainly has been a bust so far and it's rare that guys turn a corner? He was 21 years old and super raw so maybe it just took some time. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if he became a decent NFL starter. I like him in the swing tackle role. I can't believe that I am saying any of this because I thought that he was one of the worst few guys on the 90 man roster let alone the 53. CK as a contributing NFL player is a huge win from what I thought that he would be after the last few years. That appears to be the point of contention with BB right now. I agree that if Kujo isn't the worst back up ever, its great new from where he was the last two years. But that doesn't mean he was a good second round pick. And for those that remember the stories out of OBD around draft time in 2014, Whaley had the option of trading our 2015 1st or our 2014 2nd to move up to get Sammy. Ergo, he thought his 2nd rounder in 2014 was worth more than a 1st in 2015. Kujo, worth more than 1st round pick? Clear failure of expectations..
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