Is Cyrus Kouandjio Still a Bust?

[YattaOkasan]

The moral of the story is that you don't need to game plan for a great OL. You need to scheme to stop a great pass rusher, or skill player. That's kind of how "Revis Island" was born. He took away half the field. If JJ Watt is going against a great OT you can move him around to keep him effective. You can't move Tyron Smith around to match up with Watt like you can a corner. Smith is dependent on the play of his entire unit to be effective. He cannot take over a game individually. His unit can be dominant and control a game but he can't alone. Watt (as an example) did that 2 years ago in Houston.

 

The poor 3 and outs is a reflection of everyone. I agree with that. The point was that I would only draft LT in the 1st round and not in the 1st 15 picks. Those slots have to be guys that can win on their own. It be about once every 5 years on ILB too in the top 15 and never on a space eating DT. You need playmakers there.

I'm hearing the points on drafting OL in the 1st round, but I'm still on the fence. The Watt example doesn't seem that great. Didn't we do a great job of game planning around him last year? Effectively neutralizing him even though he lined up on our offenses right alot.

 

I think to some degree you do need to game plan for a great OL. I know last year it wasn't a big deal for the Cowboys, but two years ago I'm sure there were game plans on creating pressure on Romo and how to plug holes against Murray. I understand you can't move Tyron Smith to match up with Watt, but you can audible into a play behind Smith if hes going to pancake the DE on his side. It might only be 4-5 yards but thats a pretty good clip. Like most things in life I find this to be a balance issue. You can't neglect your OL/DL or just assume it'll be schemed away (I would have big concerns if IK lined up against Smith all game).

[GunnerBill]

I'm hearing the points on drafting OL in the 1st round, but I'm still on the fence. The Watt example doesn't seem that great. Didn't we do a great job of game planning around him last year? Effectively neutralizing him even though he lined up on our offenses right alot.

 

 

That goes to Kirby's point though. We neutralised Watt by double and sometimes triple blocking him every single play, that by it's nature as a tactic limits our other options offensively (can't get your tight end or back out as a receiver for example) so you are having to gameplan for him. Tyron Smith (good as he is) you don't need to gameplan against in quite the same way. He can only block one rusher it doesn't matter if that one rusher is Mario Williams or IK punchygeno.....

 

I would take someone I thought could be a franchise LT in the top 15 (pretty much my only divergence from Kirby's strategy) and I don't think the "loads of them have been busts" is a good argument. Just giving up on drafting a position early because some other teams have evaluated talent poorly there is not a sensible move in my opinion. It comes down to talent evaluation at the end of the day.

[NoSaint]

I'm hearing the points on drafting OL in the 1st round, but I'm still on the fence. The Watt example doesn't seem that great. Didn't we do a great job of game planning around him last year? Effectively neutralizing him even though he lined up on our offenses right alot.

 

I think to some degree you do need to game plan for a great OL. I know last year it wasn't a big deal for the Cowboys, but two years ago I'm sure there were game plans on creating pressure on Romo and how to plug holes against Murray. I understand you can't move Tyron Smith to match up with Watt, but you can audible into a play behind Smith if hes going to pancake the DE on his side. It might only be 4-5 yards but thats a pretty good clip. Like most things in life I find this to be a balance issue. You can't neglect your OL/DL or just assume it'll be schemed away (I would have big concerns if IK lined up against Smith all game).

i dont think kirby is arguing those guys take over EVERY game.

 

I also think he would point out how much of the gameplan has to focus on them too.

[YattaOkasan]

 

That goes to Kirby's point though. We neutralised Watt by double and sometimes triple blocking him every single play, that by it's nature as a tactic limits our other options offensively (can't get your tight end or back out as a receiver for example) so you are having to gameplan for him. Tyron Smith (good as he is) you don't need to gameplan against in quite the same way. He can only block one rusher it doesn't matter if that one rusher is Mario Williams or IK punchygeno.....

 

I would take someone I thought could be a franchise LT in the top 15 (pretty much my only divergence from Kirby's strategy) and I don't think the "loads of them have been busts" is a good argument. Just giving up on drafting a position early because some other teams have evaluated talent poorly there is not a sensible move in my opinion. It comes down to talent evaluation at the end of the day.

I'd have to go to the tape, but I thought it was more than just double or triple team. I thought we pulled and pinned him along with other strategies to use his aggressiveness against him. We also ran away from him. I think maybe the difference is the idea that OL don't just pass block. Yes pass blocking is much more of unit operation, but run blocking is much less of a unit operation. If Smith wins a run block at the point of attack then you're likely to get good yardage. They can easily be (and is) diagnosed at the LOS.

[NoSaint]

I'd have to go to the tape, but I thought it was more than just double or triple team. I thought we pulled and pinned him along with other strategies to use his aggressiveness against him. We also ran away from him. I think maybe the difference is the idea that OL don't just pass block. Yes pass blocking is much more of unit operation, but run blocking is much less of a unit operation. If Smith wins a run block at the point of attack then you're likely to get good yardage. They can easily be (and is) diagnosed at the LOS.

your continuing to show what an effort in scheming it was for a single player though, which i think says something to his point.

 

if you sub smith for an average LT, you arent going to totally revamp the gameplan.

[YattaOkasan]

i dont think kirby is arguing those guys take over EVERY game.

 

I also think he would point out how much of the gameplan has to focus on them too.

I thought Kirby's point (and would love to know if I'm wrong) is that because OL and other postions (ILB, iDL) doesn't take over games, then they should not be chosen early in the draft (first 15). I am trying to say that just because the OL doesn't score that TD doesn't mean that they don't have a profound impact on the game (particularly in the rush game).

your continuing to show what an effort in scheming it was for a single player though, which i think says something to his point.

 

if you sub smith for an average LT, you arent going to totally revamp the gameplan.

I would think the run support to the defense's right would change considerably. That does change pass rush/coverage responsibilities of the ILBs. Its subtle which could make it hard to see but I think its there.

 

This all sounds like a thing that cover1.net would do. BTW shout out to their great work in an entirely different thread.

Edited August 25, 2016 by YattaOkasan

[artmalibu]

So will they keep 4 tackles this year?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

That goes to Kirby's point though. We neutralised Watt by double and sometimes triple blocking him every single play, that by it's nature as a tactic limits our other options offensively (can't get your tight end or back out as a receiver for example) so you are having to gameplan for him. Tyron Smith (good as he is) you don't need to gameplan against in quite the same way. He can only block one rusher it doesn't matter if that one rusher is Mario Williams or IK punchygeno.....

 

I would take someone I thought could be a franchise LT in the top 15 (pretty much my only divergence from Kirby's strategy) and I don't think the "loads of them have been busts" is a good argument. Just giving up on drafting a position early because some other teams have evaluated talent poorly there is not a sensible move in my opinion. It comes down to talent evaluation at the end of the day.

Yes on all of this (even though we slightly differ on the LT). It has nothing to do with other busts either. Each draft, like each season is completely different. I only care about the skills that translate not what happened before.

[thebandit27]

So will they keep 4 tackles this year?

 

I believe they will, yes.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if they cross-trained a guy like Mills, for example (since I think he's probably the best fit of the 3) at guard, so that they have some flexibility in their game day roster.

 

EDIT: apparently Mills played some guard as a freshman to, so that's a possibility. Note that I only mention this for game day flexibility, as I don't think I want to see Mills converted to guard full-time. I think there's value, however, in having a contingency plan in place if you lose 2 OLmen in the same game.

Edited August 25, 2016 by thebandit27

[Kirby Jackson]

i dont think kirby is arguing those guys take over EVERY game.

 

I also think he would point out how much of the gameplan has to focus on them too.

Exactly, call it the Marquis Goodwin effect. He is an okay football player that has an elite skill. That elite skill forces a team to play further away from the LOS to avoid getting beat by his speed. That speed opens up the running game and underneath patterns. In addition, it may create a mismatch elsewhere.

 

I used Goodwin because he is JAG with a great skill. A star like Watkins further illustrates the point. If you need 2 guys to keep him in check you have created an advantage somewhere else by numbers alone. If I start seeing an OL eat up 2 defenders every play maybe my stance will soften.

I thought Kirby's point (and would love to know if I'm wrong) is that because OL and other postions (ILB, iDL) doesn't take over games, then they should not be chosen early in the draft (first 15). I am trying to say that just because the OL doesn't score that TD doesn't mean that they don't have a profound impact on the game (particularly in the rush game).

I would think the run support to the defense's right would change considerably. That does change pass rush/coverage responsibilities of the ILBs. Its subtle which could make it hard to see but I think its there.

 

This all sounds like a thing that cover1.net would do. BTW shout out to their great work in an entirely different thread.

It is more because they can control the outcome of a play without others. Watt can eat 2 offensive players on every play, Watkins 2 defenders. A great OT cannot take up 2 players and open things up elsewhere.

 

And yes, that guy does some really good work.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

Yes on all of this (even though we slightly differ on the LT). It has nothing to do with other busts either. Each draft, like each season is completely different. I only care about the skills that translate not what happened before.

 

Yes I know the busts thing wasn't you that was others in the thread.

[YattaOkasan]

It is more because they can control the outcome of a play without others. Watt can eat 2 offensive players on every play, Watkins 2 defenders. A great OT cannot take up 2 players and open things up elsewhere.

 

And yes, that guy does some really good work.

Thanks for the clarification. I think its tough for the fans to know how the game plan might change for different OL. I don't think its crazy to think they could roll a safety into the box against a good lineman or give more run support from the ILBs. These seem small but ability of Smith (to keep the example) to pancake his guy in run support may open up things over the middle if the ILB needs to be run support. Again would love to see if theres any work on this.

[Thurman#1]

 

There's a lot of suspended/inconsistent/hurt/can't catch ball guys in the "what we could've done" category. The draft is, and will remain a crap shoot. I wish Doug would stock pile picks, but that's not his style.

 

 

 

Yeah, a lot of bad choice guys in the "what we could have done" group.

 

But we have Buscaglia's story from before that draft that told him that if they stayed put it was down to a group of three: Ebron, Zack Martin or Beckham. So there was at least one terrific pick in that "what we could have done" group too. And the source was pretty good, because in the same story, before the draft, the source said that if they could trade up they would go Watkins. And Kelvin Benjamin and Brandin Cooks were generally considered the fourth and fifth-best guy in that draft (they were in Mayock's and Gil Brandt's top five if I remember correctly). That was widely thought of at the time as a terrific class of WRs.

 

So that's not all that much of a crapshoot. And the "crapshoot" thing, no matter how many times repeated, is not true. If it were true, as many seventh rounders would succeed as first rounders. Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty. But good GMs should follow the rules that have been shown to maximize your chances. Including don't trade up if it involves trading away your next year's first unless you're getting a QB.

 

I see you're with me in terms of wishing he'd stockpile picks. I only hope that becomes his style, as it's the best way. And if we win a Super Bowl, whatever he has done will have been vindicated. But until then I'll reserve the right to criticize.

Exactly, call it the Marquis Goodwin effect. He is an okay football player that has an elite skill. That elite skill forces a team to play further away from the LOS to avoid getting beat by his speed. That speed opens up the running game and underneath patterns. In edition, it may create a mismatch elsewhere.

 

I used Goodwin because he is JAG with a great skill. A star like Watkins further illustrates the point. If you need 2 guys to keep him in check you have created an advantage somewhere else by numbers alone. If I start seeing an OL eat up 2 defenders every play maybe my stance will soften.

It is more because they can control the outcome of a play without others. Watt can eat 2 offensive players on every play, Watkins 2 defenders. A great OT cannot take up 2 players and open things up elsewhere.

 

And yes, that guy does some really good work.

 

 

 

 

I hear you and it's a reasonable point.

 

But along with an OT neutralizing two guys, something else you never see is the play that did NOT happen when an OL blocked his guy on a pass rush, the play that would have maybe happened if an inferior OL had allowed the rush that caved in the QB's knee. Particularly at OT what you're paying for is a "Keep your QB upright and healthy" bonus.

[NoSaint]

 

I hear you and it's a reasonable point.

 

But along with an OT neutralizing two guys, something else you never see is the play that did NOT happen when an OL blocked his guy on a pass rush, the play that would have maybe happened if an inferior OL had allowed the rush that caved in the QB's knee. Particularly at OT what you're paying for is a "Keep your QB upright and healthy" bonus.

ill have to go back and look but there was a pretty good write up on the gap between good and so-so lineman and the actual number of sacks/hits given up. it was MUCH smaller a gap than most would assume. especially given the difference in pay scale or draft position.

 

obviously if you replace smith with me- thats a different story but someone like incognito with a middle of the pack guard. it was like 1 play per game different (and no saying that play actually had a negative outcome due to the pressure)

Edited August 25, 2016 by NoSaint

[GunnerBill]

 

 

 

Yeah, a lot of bad choice guys in the "what we could have done" group.

 

But we have Buscaglia's story from before that draft that told him that if they stayed put it was down to a group of three: Ebron, Zack Martin or Beckham. So there was at least one terrific pick in that "what we could have done" group too. And the source was pretty good, because in the same story, before the draft, the source said that if they could trade up they would go Watkins. And Kelvin Benjamin and Brandin Cooks were generally considered the fourth and fifth-best guy in that draft (they were in Mayock's and Gil Brandt's top five if I remember correctly). That was widely thought of at the time as a terrific class of WRs.

 

So that's not all that much of a crapshoot. And the "crapshoot" thing, no matter how many times repeated, is not true. If it were true, as many seventh rounders would succeed as first rounders. Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty. But good GMs should follow the rules that have been shown to maximize your chances. Including don't trade up if it involves trading away your next year's first unless you're getting a QB.

 

 

I agree with most of this but for me the "stockpiling picks" argument goes to the crapshoot as well. If you believe in your talent evaluation skills then why not take someone you think can be elite rather than move back stockpile and take 3 guys you think can be good / very good. The teams that win Superbowls always have a collection of "elite" players.

 

I don't believe "never trade up if it's not for a Quarterback" is necessarily a hard and fast rule. If you are trading up for an elite playmaker at a difference making position then for me a trade up can be justified. If Carson Wentz flames out and Sammy Watkins ends up a perennial pro-bowler and 1,000 yard receiver do you still say trading up for Wentz was the justifiable move because he was a QB? For me it always comes down to the same key - evaluating talent. Sammy Watkins is an elite talent and the Bills traded up and took him. It's not a move you can make every year but it is a move that every now and again you make because you really believe in the talent you are pursuing. If your talent evaluation was right (and all the signs say it was) then it is justified.

 

The idea that Atlanta can't say the Jones deal was justified because they haven't won a Superbowl is nonsensical to me.

[Nihilarian]

The way I look at things is the Bills have one elite player on their offensive line at LG and his stellar play last season helped elevate the play of the center and LT. I suppose fans have a short memory and forget how both Wood and Glenn looked in 2014 as both had a down season. The 2014 Bills O-line graded at 30th at the end of the season was ranked 32nd for most of the year and as I've stated previously Pears at OG was a complete disaster and yet Henderson graded worse.

 

The team threw the ball quite a bit in 2014 probably in an effort to make the Watkins trade look worthwhile and while QB Kyle Orton gets a bad rap by most Bills fans. The guy did manage to go 7-5 and throw for 3000 yards in 12 games with 18TD's and 10 INT's and was only sacked 33 times mostly because like Fitz, as a veteran QB, he was able to find the open receiver and get them the ball before the pass rush got to him.

 

So, while the 2014 line didn't grade very well and were 23rd in pass blocking they were 32nd in run blocking. The game I can't get out of my head is how poorly the line run blocked against the Raiders. With a playoff berth on the line, the Bills rushed only 13 times for 13 yards and this was against the Raiders 32nd run defense! I mean WTF! I watched in horror as Urbik was getting shoved 5 yards behind the line time after time by some scrub DT so Spiller ended the game with 4 rushes for -4 yards and even Freddy had only 6 attempts for 10 yards rushing.

 

Looking back at that season you have to think that having that bad an offensive line didn't really affect the team that much because of Orton and yet I think had EJ been forced to play that entire season the Bills win maybe 3-4 games instead of 9. With a better line and being able to run the ball at will, the Bills make the playoffs that year IMHO.

 

The Bills having some top quality players at RG, RT means the team wouldn't have holes in the line for defenses to exploit and could dictate where they wanted to go with the ball at any time. (like those 90's Bills used to do) Rather than looking to see what holes they could exploit in the defense. One reason that allowed the Bills to get those big runs in the fourth quarter last season was because the opposing defense gets tired of chasing down the RB's all game and will allow those big plays later in the game. That is a great part of having a strong running attack.

 

At one point Doug Whaley attempted to obtain OG Jahri Evans and RT Brian Bulaga and those two chose to stay with their respective teams. In my view a darn shame he didn't continue to attempt to upgrade that right side with quality talent.

[C.Biscuit97]

The way I look at things is the Bills have one elite player on their offensive line at LG and his stellar play last season helped elevate the play of the center and LT. I suppose fans have a short memory and forget how both Wood and Glenn looked in 2014 as both had a down season. The 2014 Bills O-line graded at 30th at the end of the season was ranked 32nd for most of the year and as I've stated previously Pears at OG was a complete disaster and yet Henderson graded worse.

 

The team threw the ball quite a bit in 2014 probably in an effort to make the Watkins trade look worthwhile and while QB Kyle Orton gets a bad rap by most Bills fans. The guy did manage to go 7-5 and throw for 3000 yards in 12 games with 18TD's and 10 INT's and was only sacked 33 times mostly because like Fitz, as a veteran QB, he was able to find the open receiver and get them the ball before the pass rush got to him.

 

So, while the 2014 line didn't grade very well and were 23rd in pass blocking they were 32nd in run blocking. The game I can't get out of my head is how poorly the line run blocked against the Raiders. With a playoff berth on the line, the Bills rushed only 13 times for 13 yards and this was against the Raiders 32nd run defense! I mean WTF! I watched in horror as Urbik was getting shoved 5 yards behind the line time after time by some scrub DT so Spiller ended the game with 4 rushes for -4 yards and even Freddy had only 6 attempts for 10 yards rushing.

 

Looking back at that season you have to think that having that bad an offensive line didn't really affect the team that much because of Orton and yet I think had EJ been forced to play that entire season the Bills win maybe 3-4 games instead of 9. With a better line and being able to run the ball at will, the Bills make the playoffs that year IMHO.

 

The Bills having some top quality players at RG, RT means the team wouldn't have holes in the line for defenses to exploit and could dictate where they wanted to go with the ball at any time. (like those 90's Bills used to do) Rather than looking to see what holes they could exploit in the defense. One reason that allowed the Bills to get those big runs in the fourth quarter last season was because the opposing defense gets tired of chasing down the RB's all game and will allow those big plays later in the game. That is a great part of having a strong running attack.

 

At one point Doug Whaley attempted to obtain OG Jahri Evans and RT Brian Bulaga and those two chose to stay with their respective teams. In my view a darn shame he didn't continue to attempt to upgrade that right side with quality talent.

I disagree with your assessment of Orton and EJ. There would have been no noticeable difference in wins. The only legit wins Orton had were against our head cosch's Jets team. He was average to below average in every other start.

[GunnerBill]

The way I look at things is the Bills have one elite player on their offensive line at LG and his stellar play last season helped elevate the play of the center and LT.

 

There were mitigating circumstances for Glenn in 2014, he had a kidney removed in the offseason and never looked right physically. In 2013 when playing next to another of the awful guard combos - Colin Brown (seriously.... wtf?) and Doug Legursky he was one of the very best left tackles in football.

 

To me we have a top 10 left tackle, a top 5 left guard, a middle of the pack centre, a bottom 3rd right guard (but with potential) and one of the worst right tackle starters (Mills).

 

 

Interestingly on Kujo - I don't know if anyone heard Chris "propaganda" Brown on the Murph show yesterday, but he basically confirmed that the Tasker view on Kujo's knee being the reason he is more comfortable at LT than RT. Looks like BADOL was right and that is the view held in OBD and Tasker was breaking cover letting it slip out.

[Kirby Jackson]

The way I look at things is the Bills have one elite player on their offensive line at LG and his stellar play last season helped elevate the play of the center and LT. I suppose fans have a short memory and forget how both Wood and Glenn looked in 2014 as both had a down season. The 2014 Bills O-line graded at 30th at the end of the season was ranked 32nd for most of the year and as I've stated previously Pears at OG was a complete disaster and yet Henderson graded worse.

 

The team threw the ball quite a bit in 2014 probably in an effort to make the Watkins trade look worthwhile and while QB Kyle Orton gets a bad rap by most Bills fans. The guy did manage to go 7-5 and throw for 3000 yards in 12 games with 18TD's and 10 INT's and was only sacked 33 times mostly because like Fitz, as a veteran QB, he was able to find the open receiver and get them the ball before the pass rush got to him.

 

So, while the 2014 line didn't grade very well and were 23rd in pass blocking they were 32nd in run blocking. The game I can't get out of my head is how poorly the line run blocked against the Raiders. With a playoff berth on the line, the Bills rushed only 13 times for 13 yards and this was against the Raiders 32nd run defense! I mean WTF! I watched in horror as Urbik was getting shoved 5 yards behind the line time after time by some scrub DT so Spiller ended the game with 4 rushes for -4 yards and even Freddy had only 6 attempts for 10 yards rushing.

 

Looking back at that season you have to think that having that bad an offensive line didn't really affect the team that much because of Orton and yet I think had EJ been forced to play that entire season the Bills win maybe 3-4 games instead of 9. With a better line and being able to run the ball at will, the Bills make the playoffs that year IMHO.

 

The Bills having some top quality players at RG, RT means the team wouldn't have holes in the line for defenses to exploit and could dictate where they wanted to go with the ball at any time. (like those 90's Bills used to do) Rather than looking to see what holes they could exploit in the defense. One reason that allowed the Bills to get those big runs in the fourth quarter last season was because the opposing defense gets tired of chasing down the RB's all game and will allow those big plays later in the game. That is a great part of having a strong running attack.

 

At one point Doug Whaley attempted to obtain OG Jahri Evans and RT Brian Bulaga and those two chose to stay with their respective teams. In my view a darn shame he didn't continue to attempt to upgrade that right side with quality talent.

Glenn is one of the better LTs in the game and Wood is a quality C (this is coming from someone that was one of his biggest critics). Last year might have been his best year. RI is really good. I don't think that your OL assessment is that far off.

 

I am with you on Orton. Hopefully, this does spin out-of-control but he was an average veteran QB. He was by no means horrible. People wanted to turn the page but he did give the team its best chance to win IMO.

 

Bulaga would have been great; I think Jahri is done though. I am all for improving the OL (especially RT) and hope that doesn't get lost in this discussion. It is a position that should almost always be targeted in FA and the middle rounds. I prefer adding veteran OL because it is an area that takes time to adapt.

[thebandit27]

The way I look at things is the Bills have one elite player on their offensive line at LG and his stellar play last season helped elevate the play of the center and LT. I suppose fans have a short memory and forget how both Wood and Glenn looked in 2014 as both had a down season. The 2014 Bills O-line graded at 30th at the end of the season was ranked 32nd for most of the year and as I've stated previously Pears at OG was a complete disaster and yet Henderson graded worse.

 

The team threw the ball quite a bit in 2014 probably in an effort to make the Watkins trade look worthwhile and while QB Kyle Orton gets a bad rap by most Bills fans. The guy did manage to go 7-5 and throw for 3000 yards in 12 games with 18TD's and 10 INT's and was only sacked 33 times mostly because like Fitz, as a veteran QB, he was able to find the open receiver and get them the ball before the pass rush got to him.

 

So, while the 2014 line didn't grade very well and were 23rd in pass blocking they were 32nd in run blocking. The game I can't get out of my head is how poorly the line run blocked against the Raiders. With a playoff berth on the line, the Bills rushed only 13 times for 13 yards and this was against the Raiders 32nd run defense! I mean WTF! I watched in horror as Urbik was getting shoved 5 yards behind the line time after time by some scrub DT so Spiller ended the game with 4 rushes for -4 yards and even Freddy had only 6 attempts for 10 yards rushing.

 

Looking back at that season you have to think that having that bad an offensive line didn't really affect the team that much because of Orton and yet I think had EJ been forced to play that entire season the Bills win maybe 3-4 games instead of 9. With a better line and being able to run the ball at will, the Bills make the playoffs that year IMHO.

 

The Bills having some top quality players at RG, RT means the team wouldn't have holes in the line for defenses to exploit and could dictate where they wanted to go with the ball at any time. (like those 90's Bills used to do) Rather than looking to see what holes they could exploit in the defense. One reason that allowed the Bills to get those big runs in the fourth quarter last season was because the opposing defense gets tired of chasing down the RB's all game and will allow those big plays later in the game. That is a great part of having a strong running attack.

 

At one point Doug Whaley attempted to obtain OG Jahri Evans and RT Brian Bulaga and those two chose to stay with their respective teams. In my view a darn shame he didn't continue to attempt to upgrade that right side with quality talent.

 

Did I just read a really long post that equates PFF's ranking of the Bills' 2014 OL as some type of justification for the statement that the Bills' 2015 OL wasn't good?

 

They lead the NFL in YPC (with or without QB rushing stats) and were in the top-10 in QB hits allowed, despite blocking for a QB that held the ball longer than any other starting QB in the NFL.

 

http://www.scout.com/nfl/bills/story/1671762-tyrod-taylor-had-most-time-to-pass-in-nfl

 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here; there's simply no support for the idea that the OL wasn't good, let alone that they were bad.

Glenn is one of the better LTs in the game and Wood is a quality C (this is coming from someone that was one of his biggest critics). Last year might have been his best year. RI is really good. I don't think that your OL assessment is that far off.

 

I am with you on Orton. Hopefully, this does spin out-of-control but he was an average veteran QB. He was by no means horrible. People wanted to turn the page but he did give the team its best chance to win IMO.

 

Bulaga would have been great; I think Jahri is done though. I am all for improving the OL (especially RT) and hope that doesn't get lost in this discussion. It is a position that should almost always be targeted in FA and the middle rounds. I prefer adding veteran OL because it is an area that takes time to adapt.

 

True, Orton wasn't that bad. I think his final 4 games left a really bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, one that was punctuated by his wimp-out slide on 3rd-and-2 against Oakland.

 

While I was happy with the pursuit of both Bulaga and Boling in the last 2 offseasons, as we've seen repeatedly throughout the league, the OL is a bit-part in comparison to certain skill positions nowadays.