KD in CA Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Granted, you can't always take a player's comment as gospel, but listening to Shady's interview today on WGR he surely came across as someone who had no idea why Karlos was released. Perhaps he was covering for the team but he is not the kind of guy to do that, and he usually answers the questions asked of him. He said he really had no idea. And he's in the RB room. Wilder, Jr., who is very close to Karlos, said the same thing. As did EJ. Those guys were close friends and not sure I would take them at their word for it, they are not going to badmouth him. But Shady genuinely sounded like he had no clue as to why Karlos was gone other than the obvious weight issue and other publicized stuff. "I have no clue why it's hot today......other than it's August and the sun is shining." Shady and the rest know exactly why he was cut.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 "I have no clue why it's hot today......other than it's August and the sun is shining." Shady and the rest know exactly why he was cut. My post was meant for the "there must be something else going on we don't know about" contingent. There is plenty reason with the various FSU stuff, coming to two camps overweight, suspension, etc., to getting released. I was saying that Shady had no idea that was going to happen, meaning there was likely not some player revolt, or mistrust in him other than what is publicly known already.
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 My post was meant for the "there must be something else going on we don't know about" contingent. There is plenty reason with the various FSU stuff, coming to two camps overweight, suspension, etc., to getting released. I was saying that Shady had no idea that was going to happen, meaning there was likely not some player revolt, or mistrust in him other than what is publicly known already. given what we have seen of him, i wouldnt be shocked if he was.... underwhelming... in predraft interviews and such too. it still surprises me that a free shot at a guy with his rookie season success, and no expense/consequence to cutting him would pass by 32 teams.
KD in CA Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 My post was meant for the "there must be something else going on we don't know about" contingent. There is plenty reason with the various FSU stuff, coming to two camps overweight, suspension, etc., to getting released. I was saying that Shady had no idea that was going to happen, meaning there was likely not some player revolt, or mistrust in him other than what is publicly known already. Sorry if I wasn't clear -- I was definitely commenting on Shady's remarks, not your retelling of them. I'm sure Karlos' lack of commitment and work ethic was evident in more places than just his waistline and I'm sure that was obvious to his teammates. I'm sure guys cover for each other, even after they are cut and that's the reason for Shady's 'I don't know' comments. it still surprises me that a free shot at a guy with his rookie season success, and no expense/consequence to cutting him would pass by 32 teams. Which one would think would pretty much put an end to the "When will the FO be held accountable" thread, but nope!
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Sorry if I wasn't clear -- I was definitely commenting on Shady's remarks, not your retelling of them. I'm sure Karlos' lack of commitment and work ethic was evident in more places than just his waistline and I'm sure that was obvious to his teammates. I'm sure guys cover for each other, even after they are cut and that's the reason for Shady's 'I don't know' comments. Which one would think would pretty much put an end to the "When will the FO be held accountable" thread, but nope! Fair enough. My post was really about the way he said it not what he said. It's hard to know sometimes, of course, but it's also easy to recognize when a guy (any guy not necessarily an athlete being interviewed) is genuinely surprised. It didn't sound like he was just protecting him. I wouldn't have said this if I just read his quote in the paper or from a transcript. I only said it because he genuinely sounded surprised to me and I thought that was telling. There is no way to be positive either way. Under most circumstances I totally agree with you that players will just say that stuff or toe to company line. Shady is often an interesting interview. He says stuff that a lot of players won't. He had an interesting take on Tyrod's contract, too. He said that players let other players take care of their business (meaning money) and don't or rarely ask each other how is your contact going or how much did you make or what do you feel like after you signed that deal. They would rather stay out of each other's business. He even harassed Sal and Bulldog a little, saying do you guys always ask each other how much you make? (Granted, there are guys everywhere that may say that to their colleagues, so it's not like that concept is a foreign one.) Their agents, however, are obsessed with what the other players make and constantly talk with their clients about what their colleagues make. Edited August 23, 2016 by Kelly the Dog
Tuco Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Maybe he's just about to flunk another test and everybody in the league knows it.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 People give Belichek a ration of crap for being sullen and not saying much at the press conferences and to reporters. But this is why, so you don't have to look stupid and retract statements after the fact. Our FO has a lot to learn, just shut up and play ball. Who is to say the team gave up on Karlos, when it can just as easily be interpreted that (between missing workouts, showing up fat, and failing drug tests) it was actually Karlos that gave up on the team? FO has nothing to retract. They were committed to Karlos as long as Karlos was committed to them.
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Fair enough. My post was really about the way he said it not what he said. It's hard to know sometimes, of course, but it's also easy to recognize when a guy (any guy not necessarily an athlete being interviewed) is genuinely surprised. It didn't sound like he was just protecting him. I wouldn't have said this if I just read his quote in the paper or from a transcript. I only said it because he genuinely sounded surprised to me and I thought that was telling. There is no way to be positive either way. Under most circumstances I totally agree with you that players will just say that stuff or toe to company line. Shady is often an interesting interview. He says stuff that a lot of players won't. He had an interesting take on Tyrod's contract, too. He said that players let other players take care of their business (meaning money) and don't or rarely ask each other how is your contact going or how much did you make or what do you feel like after you signed that deal. They would rather stay out of each other's business. He even harassed Sal and Bulldog a little, saying do you guys always ask each other how much you make? (Granted, there are guys everywhere that may say that to their colleagues, so it's not like that concept is a foreign one.) Their agents, however, are obsessed with what the other players make and constantly talk with their clients about what their colleagues make. Re the whole Williams thing, meh. He's a dime-a-dozen guy, and next year's draft crop is supposed to be excellent. Jonathan Williams was a better prospect than him anyways: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jonathan-williams?id=2555227 .The Bills will be fine at that position. Btw, this isn't Williams' first round with the battle of the bulge: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/karlos-williams?id=2552380 Edited August 23, 2016 by dave mcbride
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Re the whole Williams thing, meh. He's a dime-a-dozen guy, and next year's draft crop is supposed to be excellent. Jonathan Williams was a better prospect than him anyways. The Bills will be fine at that position. The idea that RBs are a dime a dozen is a nonsense argument and totally false. We have witnessed that for 10 years. When our good guys went down the backups sucked with the exception of Gillislee who only performed well in spot duty and not as a starter. Even Karlos was not good as a starter. And yet if you gave 100 fourth, fifth, sixth, seven round picks or UDFA RBs all of Karlos's carries last year, perhaps only 1-3 get 5.6 yards a carry and 9 TDs. He's a load and very good as a change up back. He may or may not be worth the trouble. The Bills didn't think so. I do. Boom Herron and Wilder suck. And I know Herron has played well for two game stretches before.
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) The idea that RBs are a dime a dozen is a nonsense argument and totally false. We have witnessed that for 10 years. When our good guys went down the backups sucked with the exception of Gillislee who only performed well in spot duty and not as a starter. Even Karlos was not good as a starter. And yet if you gave 100 fourth, fifth, sixth, seven round picks or UDFA RBs all of Karlos's carries last year, perhaps only 1-3 get 5.6 yards a carry and 9 TDs. He's a load and very good as a change up back. He may or may not be worth the trouble. The Bills didn't think so. I do. Boom Herron and Wilder suck. And I know Herron has played well for two game stretches before. They aren't a dime-a-dozen. I never said that! I said that HE is a dime-a-dozen: oft-injured, terrible self-discipline issues, *probably* a criminal, and with a propensity to fumble (to go with some generally good non-starting RB skills). Edited August 23, 2016 by dave mcbride
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 They aren't a dime-a-dozen. I never said that! I said that HE is a dime-a-dozen: oft-injured, terrible self-discipline issues, *probably* a criminal, and with a propensity to fumble (to go with some generally good non-starting RB skills).No dime a dozen back does that. Or very rarely and no more than any other position
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) No dime a dozen back does that. Or very rarely and no more than any other position Mike Gillislee did it: 5.7 ypc (to Williams' 5.6) on just over half as many carries (because he played in half as many games). Dime-a-dozen, both of them. Edited August 23, 2016 by dave mcbride
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Mike Gillislee did it: 5.7 ypc (to Williams' 5.6) on just over half as many carries (because he played in half as many games). Dime-a-dozen, both of them. Which is why Gillislee is #2 above Reggie Bush and 100 other guys are not
GG Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 He may or may not be worth the trouble. The Bills didn't think so. I do. Boom Herron and Wilder suck. And I know Herron has played well for two game stretches before. The Bills didn't think he was worth the trouble and 31 other teams did as well. Let's not forget that this is a league that has no problem with taking on players with serious issues as reclamation projects. Do you really think that 32 teams are saying no to Karlos because he has a little weight problem?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 The Bills didn't think he was worth the trouble and 31 other teams did as well. Let's not forget that this is a league that has no problem with taking on players with serious issues as reclamation projects. Do you really think that 32 teams are saying no to Karlos because he has a little weight problem? No. But I think the Bills and 31 other teams may be dumb to get a talent like him for free and let him see if he can get his **** together in six weeks, and if he doesn't you lose nothing.
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Which is why Gillislee is #2 above Reggie Bush and 100 other guys are not I think Johnathan Williams is gonna move up this draft chart quick.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 He looks good. I like him. If you HAD to choose between him and Karlos right now you may very well take JWill. I may even choose him myself. The point is, you DON'T have to choose right now. You have to choose six weeks from now, when things could look different.
FireChan Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 He looks good. I like him. If you HAD to choose between him and Karlos right now you may very well take JWill. I may even choose him myself. The point is, you DON'T have to choose right now. You have to choose six weeks from now, when things could look different. Wait a second, are you saying that you know more than 64 HC's and GM's?
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Wait a second, are you saying that you know more than 64 HC's and GM's? i believe he is saying it is not unheard of for the league to get groupthink and make a mistake. which is entirely different than implying he is better than all of them.
FireChan Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 i believe he is saying it is not unheard of for the league to get groupthink and make a mistake. which is entirely different than implying he is better than all of them. Fair enough but he knows more than them in this particular instance, no?
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