KD in CA Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Yes, absolutely I do. My point is the Pack worked Lacy in preseason last year then played him, at the weight where we just can't let Karlos work. I'm not saying Lacy did well at that weight, just pointing out one team can keep, practice, and play a guy at that weight (because he had a record of success with them) while we have to get out the snippers immediately, only a few days after telling the world "we won't give up on him" Maybe Lacy's head was in it while Karlos was all "I just don't care". Or maybe there's more to it. All the above is true, but I'm not sure it's relevant, except the "back to back 1100+ seasons". Lacy is the bell-cow for the Pack's run game, Williams is the reliever, so less important to the team. But Williams played well and contributed to the Bills last year, and IMO what a guy did in college and where he was drafted is and should be less relevant to a team once he's shown he can play in the league. The Pack stuck with Lacy and early indicators are he got his sh** together so it paid off. The point I'm making is the Bills were all unfazed stick with Williams, "not giving up" after the suspension and weight. And there doesn't seem to be any particular driver - no need to cut down the roster. The timing is just strange to me to make it a performance issue. If you're not giving up on the guy why not change his eating regimen, put him on a different training program, and let him stick around and try to shape up? It was only a 5th round pick, but a draft pick is an investment, and we did invest in him both a pick and coaching time/training. Why burn our investment at this point, if it's truly a performance issue and not due to a new infraction/stupidity? You actually haven't shown you can play in this league when you have 500 career yards + did nothing except get hurt when you had the chance to start + earned a 4 game suspension + showed up to camp so fat you can't even practice. The Bills have better places to invest their time, energy and money when it comes to running backs.
BaaadThingsMan Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 I looked at this two different ways. Before the game when this broke I was shocked and figured this was a boneheaded move. After the game watching how the D played etc, I began to think this was a rationally calculated move. Rex has this team believing in him, his system, and themselves. Last year he let cancerous guys like Mario (and Dareus) infect the rest of the team and destroy the team culture. This year Rex has got the momentum and they decided to cut a poor performer to keep things going the right direction. Williams showed a lot of promise and may blossom elsewhere, but as long as the team is pulling one direction behind Rex I'm not going to question cutting an underperformed / new potential locker room cancer.good take
klos63 Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Yes, absolutely I do. My point is the Pack worked Lacy in preseason last year then played him, at the weight where we just can't let Karlos work. I'm not saying Lacy did well at that weight, just pointing out one team can keep, practice, and play a guy at that weight (because he had a record of success with them) while we have to get out the snippers immediately, only a few days after telling the world "we won't give up on him" Maybe Lacy's head was in it while Karlos was all "I just don't care". Or maybe there's more to it. All the above is true, but I'm not sure it's relevant, except the "back to back 1100+ seasons". Lacy is the bell-cow for the Pack's run game, Williams is the reliever, so less important to the team. But Williams played well and contributed to the Bills last year, and IMO what a guy did in college and where he was drafted is and should be less relevant to a team once he's shown he can play in the league. The Pack stuck with Lacy and early indicators are he got his sh** together so it paid off. The point I'm making is the Bills were all unfazed stick with Williams, "not giving up" after the suspension and weight. And there doesn't seem to be any particular driver - no need to cut down the roster. The timing is just strange to me to make it a performance issue. If you're not giving up on the guy why not change his eating regimen, put him on a different training program, and let him stick around and try to shape up? It was only a 5th round pick, but a draft pick is an investment, and we did invest in him both a pick and coaching time/training. Why burn our investment at this point, if it's truly a performance issue and not due to a new infraction/stupidity? I think KD in Ca said it best, they are not the same people, it's not the same situation at all. Apples and oranges, oversized apples and oranges at that.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 of course...the usual Patriots comment every time the Bills release a player....please tell us how often this has happened? Scott Chandler, Chris Hogan, Doug Flutie, Sam Aiken, Antowain Smith, Donald Jones, Chris White, Alan Branch, off the top of my head. Now what?
klos63 Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Scott Chandler, Chris Hogan, Doug Flutie, Sam Aiken, Antowain Smith, Donald Jones, Chris White, Alan Branch, off the top of my head. Now what? i believe the point was, how many of them have excelled, which is what we hear all the time. They'll go to NE and do great, not to mention steal our playbook. Antowain did very well, that's really it. Chris White was off the top of your head? that's pretty impressive. I had to look up who he was. Edited August 22, 2016 by klos63
BaaadThingsMan Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Scott Chandler, Chris Hogan, Doug Flutie, Sam Aiken, Antowain Smith, Donald Jones, Chris White, Alan Branch, off the top of my head. Now what? not to mention the others *belicheat brought in to the secret lab to poke, prod and discard.KW won't have much to give unless Bill needs the hookup in Fla.
nucci Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Scott Chandler, Chris Hogan, Doug Flutie, Sam Aiken, Antowain Smith, Donald Jones, Chris White, Alan Branch, off the top of my head. Now what? and all these players played so well and came back to haunt the Bills? Flutie signed with the Pats after we released him? Interesting Edited August 22, 2016 by nucci
Doc Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 and all these players played so well and came back to haunt the Bills? Flutie signed with the Pats after we released him? Interesting No. Flutie went to the Cheaters after playing for the Chargers.
ganesh Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 You actually haven't shown you can play in this league when you have 500 career yards + did nothing except get hurt when you had the chance to start + earned a 4 game suspension + showed up to camp so fat you can't even practice. The Bills have better places to invest their time, energy and money when it comes to running backs. this !
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 I hope and pray that he gets his LIFE together. This young man needs help and counseling and he now has a family for whom he is responsible. I hope the NFL can help him and not throw him by the Dustbin. agreed. The NFL has one serious motivator. Money. Hope that is enough to set him straight. Family should be the first one of course, but if he can get on a team, he might put the work in. On and off the field !
Ohiostyle Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 There is a rare Pantheon of skill position players who can say they scored 9 TDs in a single season. He will get another opportunity, from here it's entirely up to him. If he continues to think it'll come without working for it, his career is over. No one will have to worry about him coming back to bite us. The bills I'm sure took it all into account and laid down there bet. I for one agree with it.
nucci Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 No. Flutie went to the Cheaters after playing for the Chargers. I know....trying to let Raven83 know this
stevewin Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) FWIW Bob Papa (called the game Sat for the Giants) was on Sirius NFL Radio this morning and said he heard there were other serious "immaturity issues" the team was fed up with. So much is being made of the weight, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just the tip of the iceberg and that there were other things they found out with regard to drug use and/or other serious issues that they figured he wouldn't get past in the short term (or maybe even get nailed for by the league) Edited August 22, 2016 by stevewin
YoloinOhio Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Sal just said on WGR : trust issues between player and organization, player to player, locker room issues, deep personal issues. He was a different person this year and players did not trust him. It was a culture move and they didn't want to deal with him anymore. The weight gain and inability to perform at the level expected just made it easier. Sal also said there were issues with him that he didn't feel comfortable discussing publically. Edited August 22, 2016 by YoloinOhio
dpberr Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 He reminded me of A-Train. I figured he was in trouble when he showed up so overweight. You don't hear too often today stories about NFL players coming into camp overweight. The NFL season is year long for players who are committed to making it a career.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Sal just said on WGR : trust issues between player and organization, player to player, locker room issues, deep personal issues. He was a different person this year and players did not trust him. It was a culture move and they didn't want to deal with him anymore. The weight gain and inability to perform at the level expected just made it easier. Sal also said there were issues with him that he didn't feel comfortable discussing publically. Sounds right. Wonder if he was stealing or something. Who knows.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) You actually haven't shown you can play in this league when you have 500 career yards + did nothing except get hurt when you had the chance to start + earned a 4 game suspension + showed up to camp so fat you can't even practice. The Bills have better places to invest their time, energy and money when it comes to running backs. Obviously the Bills agree they have better places to invest their time, energy, and money or they wouldn't have cut him. But in cutting him, they are cutting a player in whom they invested a draft pick (albeit a low round one) and a season of development. All I'm saying is the stated "too fat to practice" 1 week of "didn't perform well" doesn't seem like enough reason to toss that investment. It's kind of to describe a player who starts 11 games for 5.6 ypa, a 78.6% catch/target and scores 9 TDs as "did nothing except get hurt when you have the chance to start". Had he shown he was a long-term star or a starter, or a guy you can build around, No. But he did show he could play and contribute in the league, and that really shouldn't be questioned by anyone knowledgeable in the game. FWIW Bob Papa (called the game Sat for the Giants) was on Sirius NFL Radio this morning and said he heard there were other serious "immaturity issues" the team was fed up with. So much is being made of the weight, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just the tip of the iceberg and that there were other things they found out with regard to drug use and/or other serious issues that they figured he wouldn't get past in the short term (or maybe even get nailed for by the league) Sal just said on WGR : trust issues between player and organization, player to player, locker room issues, deep personal issues. He was a different person this year and players did not trust him. It was a culture move and they didn't want to deal with him anymore. The weight gain and inability to perform at the level expected just made it easier. Both of these views make a lot more sense to me. If the players didn't trust him and there were locker room issues and coaching issues (lack of focus/effort?) on top of the weight and the suspension, that would be reason to cut their losses. I suppose we'll never know, but I do tend to believe there must have been some final precipitating event that put him "over the top" with management. I have believed this about Lynch and Bryce Brown as well, but nothing has ever come out. Edited August 22, 2016 by Hopeful
GG Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Sal just said on WGR : trust issues between player and organization, player to player, locker room issues, deep personal issues. He was a different person this year and players did not trust him. It was a culture move and they didn't want to deal with him anymore. The weight gain and inability to perform at the level expected just made it easier. Sal also said there were issues with him that he didn't feel comfortable discussing publically. There was the odd Twitter exchange with Preston Brown and Kyle wasn't overly effusive when he was asked about their sideline conversation.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) There was the odd Twitter exchange with Preston Brown and Kyle wasn't overly effusive when he was asked about their sideline conversation. Say more? I don't tweet or twitter. Edit: maybe nevah mind? This exchange? Just looked like ribbing at the time. Edited August 22, 2016 by Hopeful
eball Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Say more? I don't tweet or twitter. Edit: maybe nevah mind? This exchange? Just looked like ribbing at the time. I don't remember the specifics but it seemed to be along the lines of Preston telling him, "go home, Karlos...you're drunk" -- minus the alcohol.
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