Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 So would just about everybody ( myself included) responding to this ridiculous thread -that isn't some kind of Goodwin cheerleader. I , like many do not think it would have changed either team's fortunes one iota. Yes, Hogan is better than an undersized oft - injured speed demon track star cum NFL WR wannabe. In the annals of Doug Whaleys transgressions, this is a minor bordering on inconsequential one. Trying to make Chris Hogan out to be some kind of generational talent that the Patriots rode to a SuperBowl is total insanity. That's why no one, even in 42 pages, has even attempted to do that.
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 To amplify what JohnC said - The Bills have a roster full of Michael Floyds - talented idiots. The Patriots benched Floyd yesterday in favor of their Chris Hogans - intelligent, high-effort players. The results are obvious. Incidentally, another former Bill, Alan Branch, was phenomenal as a run-stuffer this year. Yes, I mentioned it earlier. Was waiting for that one. Alan Branch, who the Bills cut for being an idiot and getting a DUI. You know like Michael Floyd , that genius picked up by the Pats as well. That's why no one, even in 42 pages, has even attempted to do that. Then please, just what is your freaking point. That the Pats are better than the Bills. That they are better than most teams? That you love and worship them as the organization that can do no wrong ( we know, we know) . Just what is it?
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 To amplify what JohnC said - The Bills have a roster full of Michael Floyds - talented idiots. The Patriots benched Floyd yesterday in favor of their Chris Hogans - intelligent, high-effort players. The results are obvious. Incidentally, another former Bill, Alan Branch, was phenomenal as a run-stuffer this year. alan branch is much more the lazy idiot than the intelligent hard worker.... which makes this a weird throw in at the end. i also have to back up and mention that the "great hands" crowd is getting to be a little bit much. hes had ok hands but even yesterday had some double clutches, and whatnot. he is a decent player that had a career day.
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) IMO Hogan was a perfect fit for NE. He has a high football IQ. (I have seen more than one "great" WR Crash and burn here for not having that.) runs great routes and catches almost everything thrown to him. HOGAN IS BY NO MEANS A #1 WR and is at best an average #2 option, but he is a GREAT 3rd option who can get open deep to open thing up for Edelman, Mitchell, Amondola underneath. People are right that Brady makes him better because his throws are on target and ALLOW YAC, so many QBS throws make it so YAC is all but impossible. I would argue that their underneath game which is what the offense is based around, is what gets defenders to cheat up and opens up Hogan ( who was darn near uncovered ) to get deep When Brady has a relative eternity to stand there and deliver the ball, yes he is not going to miss. Edited January 23, 2017 by Boatdrinks
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Yes, I mentioned it earlier. Was waiting for that one. Alan Branch, who the Bills cut for being an idiot and getting a DUI. You know like Michael Floyd , that genius picked up by the Pats as well. Then please, just what is your freaking point. That the Pats are better than the Bills. That they are better than most teams? That you love and worship them as the organization that can do no wrong ( we know, we know) . Just what is it? 1. The Bills should have kept him/matched. 2. posters digging in deep on the Hogan "hate" they had for him here last year is a thrill to watch.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 alan branch is much more the lazy idiot than the intelligent hard worker.... which makes this a weird throw in at the end. i also have to back up and mention that the "great hands" crowd is getting to be a little bit much. hes had ok hands but even yesterday had some double clutches, and whatnot. he is a decent player that had a career day. I think Branch "does his job" when he's winning much like Blount does his job when winning. Marrone hurt his run defense by cutting Branch. It's hard to fault him considering the circumstances but he was a beast in run D for the Bills and they really missed that aspect later in that season.
eball Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 1. The Bills should have kept him/matched. 2. posters digging in deep on the Hogan "hate" they had for him here last year is a thrill to watch. Your life must be a blast if you find this thrilling.
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Your life must be a blast if you find this thrilling. One of many pleasures I enjoy. I was just answering the question.
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 1. The Bills should have kept him/matched. 2. posters digging in deep on the Hogan "hate" they had for him here last year is a thrill to watch. I'm not sure who you are referring to . Yes, they should have kept him over Goodwin. I, for one never hated CH as a bill , ( there are few that I do) though his decisions from time to time were frustrating. Not much different than any other Bill. I now have Hogan hate because he plays for the dark side, just as I would hate / despise any other player on that team. This is an awful lot of pages to make a point that the Bills should have kept one player over another. Especially one who would likely have put up about the same production that he did in his previous years on the team, maybe a few more catches due to injuries at WR. The greater point that the Bills record would have very likely been identical with the player as without him due to the overall limitations of the team.
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I think Branch "does his job" when he's winning much like Blount does his job when winning. Marrone hurt his run defense by cutting Branch. It's hard to fault him considering the circumstances but he was a beast in run D for the Bills and they really missed that aspect later in that season. Oh, when he's good he's good - no doubt. But in a post about high character intelligent dudes being the key- he was an odd inclusion
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 The pats liked him after watching him play for he Bills, which is the topic of this discussion. It wasn't just one game. He has done very well there---tied for first in the NFL in YPC. He's no #1 WR, so getting a couple of looks per game won't get you over 1000 yards. He He had 23 of his 37 catches for 1st downs. Guys saying Goodwin or his kind would have the same result on the pats are making themselves look silly. And you do realize the guys saying this are some of the very same guys pointing out that the Pats couldn't turn Ochocinco or Chandler into significant pass catchers ... there's just this insane/inane inability to admit that Hogan is a pretty damn good receiver. Not a world beater, but pretty damn good.
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I'm not sure who you are referring to . Yes, they should have kept him over Goodwin. I, for one never hated CH as a bill , ( there are few that I do) though his decisions from time to time were frustrating. Not much different than any other Bill. I now have Hogan hate because he plays for the dark side, just as I would hate / despise any other player on that team. This is an awful lot of pages to make a point that the Bills should have kept one player over another. Especially one who would likely have put up about the same production that he did in his previous years on the team, maybe a few more catches due to injuries at WR. The greater point that the Bills record would have very likely been identical with the player as without him due to the overall limitations of the team. I don't think that's a great point to make. Take any player off the team this year and it wouldn't have made a meaningful difference in the outcome (for the worse, I mean). With a new coaching crew coming in, it's better to have better players on the roster, no? Actually, under any circumstance this is true.
dave mcbride Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Oh, when he's good he's good - no doubt. But in a post about high character intelligent dudes being the key- he was an odd inclusion He's one of those high-character-but-only-in-very-specific-and-unique-contexts guys!
GG Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Oh, when he's good he's good - no doubt. But in a post about high character intelligent dudes being the key- he was an odd inclusion You gotta throw in the black dude in the discussion of Belichick getting intelligent players to fit his system, otherwise a pattern may develop.
PatsFanNH Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 You gotta throw in the black dude in the discussion of Belichick getting intelligent players to fit his system, otherwise a pattern may develop. Troy Brown, David Patton, Randy Moss, Bennett (well a TE) should I continue?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Geezus...this Hogan thread is still going? His production with the GOAT was the same as it was here. Now one productive game and of a sudden its like we let Wes Welker go. Geezus...the ONLY reason this thread persists is because people who are TRYING to build a case against Whaley want to make more of this than it is. Hogan is a marginal WR at the NFL level, struggled to make every roster he has ever been on across multiple teams prior to going to NE and did about what he always does despite playing in the ABSOLUTE perfect system with the greatest ever at running that system. Everyone need to calm down...this is Chris freaking Hogan we are talking about. Im thrilled he had a big game, the guy works hard and I love that he gets this moment and even though I hope the Pats lose in 2 weeks, I wish him well. But geezus the exaggeration of his loss is so over blown on this thread that I am actually stunned its still going. Edited January 23, 2017 by Alphadawg7
GG Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Troy Brown, David Patton, Randy Moss, Bennett (well a TE) should I continue? Funny, but I don't remember people calling them intelligent, high character lunch pail dudes. Maybe Troy Brown, but BB inherited him, IIRC
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) And you do realize the guys saying this are some of the very same guys pointing out that the Pats couldn't turn Ochocinco or Chandler into significant pass catchers ... there's just this insane/inane inability to admit that Hogan is a pretty damn good receiver. Not a world beater, but pretty damn good. Chandler is an average to below average TE. Ochocinco was ten times the talent that Chris Hogan is. This doesn't mean that every situation for every player is going to work out. Even for the Patriots. They are not infallible. Saying they were unable to " turn them into" something is giving them too much credit. As many do especially in the media. Players are what they are. Different skills, personalities, drive. Hogan is a good scheme fit. He can play in the league. So what? Proves nothing. It's hardly a leap to say that a WR playing in a run first offense with an average at best QB might be more productive in a passing based offense with a HOF QB and a great OC designing plays. Hogan could just as easily went for a bigger payday with a different team with a similar QB situation to the Bills and put up about the same production he did in Buffalo. That wouldn't prove anything either. He's the same guy. In a better situation for him ( and many other players in the league) to produce. Edited January 23, 2017 by Boatdrinks
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I don't think that's a great point to make. Take any player off the team this year and it wouldn't have made a meaningful difference in the outcome (for the worse, I mean). With a new coaching crew coming in, it's better to have better players on the roster, no? Actually, under any circumstance this is true. It's an excellent point to make. The Bills manage to lose with better players and lose with bad players. It's pretty much saying "so what?, much ado about nothing. You can't keep everybody and weren't going to match a 4+ million cap hit for Chris Hogan. It was a minor miscalculation by Doug Whaley that he didn't think it necessary to tender CH at a level that would get him draft pick compensation. It didn't effect the team's fortunes much if at all. Now, I think Doug Whaley is not a good GM and should have been fired , but in the long list of his missteps as Bills GM, this one had one of the lower impacts on the team. The goal is to win games, and the Bills record when they had Hogan wasn't any better than without. Their problems are much much deeper than having Chris Hogan or not. The point that a player can be more successful with a better team ( this doesn't mean EVERY player) seems a rather obvious and therefore not great point to make.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 @JFowlerESPN Artie Burns: "We thought Edelman was gonna be the guy. It ended up being Hogan. @ChrisBurke_SI Chris Burke Retweeted Jeremy Fowler Might be worth it to cover more than just one guy next time.
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