dollars 2 donuts Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 He was injured last year, I think he was worth the money the Pat's are paying him and with Brady at QB I think he'll be good for 80 grabs this year. I really would have been ok with keeping our top three of Watkins, Woods and Hogan. After more than 770 replies I still haven't changed my mind. I was wrong about the 80 grabs, but I still would have been ok with Watkins, Woods and Hogan.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 After more than 770 replies I still haven't changed my mind. I was wrong about the 80 grabs, but I still would have been ok with Watkins, Woods and Hogan. Watkins? Who's watkins? Haven't seen any Watkins playing lately.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 and for those saying that "setting the record" was special.... branch is the guy he took the post season single game yardage team record from. a dude that in 12 years had like 6600 yards. averaged about 40 catches and 550 yards and 3 tds a season for his career. it would be totally unsurprising if hogan was around or even a little above those averages for his NE career. and totally unremarkable. And that's what the Pats** do, they replace guys and find guys for their system, which is why the term JAG, is thrown around. It's not meant as a slight to Hogan but in the Pats** system he literally is just another guy. They replaced Branch with Welker, replaced Welker with Edelman. Hogan, I think, will be Amedola's replacement seeing at the Pats** could save $6M by releasing him.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 And that's what the Pats** do, they replace guys and find guys for their system, which is why the term JAG, is thrown around. It's not meant as a slight to Hogan but in the Pats** system he literally is just another guy. They replaced Branch with Welker, replaced Welker with Edelman. Hogan, I think, will be Amedola's replacement seeing at the Pats** could save $6M by releasing him. Perhaps we'll have a system under our new HC...
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 And that's what the Pats** do, they replace guys and find guys for their system, which is why the term JAG, is thrown around. It's not meant as a slight to Hogan but in the Pats** system he literally is just another guy. They replaced Branch with Welker, replaced Welker with Edelman. Hogan, I think, will be Amedola's replacement seeing at the Pats** could save $6M by releasing him. and behind edelman and gronk and possibly bennett its not a bad fit for him at all. I agree that the term JAG at the nfl level isnt the insult that i think some read it as. a solid WR body type isnt particularly rare in the human species compared to some positions, so there are a lot of guys that are similar once you get over the elite crew. im not anti hogan (ive just been back and forth on whether he made sense for us across his career based on how he fit with the various compositions of our WR group and at different price points).
Fan in Chicago Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) After more than 770 replies I still haven't changed my mind. I was wrong about the 80 grabs, but I still would have been ok with Watkins, Woods and Hogan. As you shouldnt. I too lamented him not being retained. For others trying to reconcile away his performance on the Pats**, the question is NOT whether he would have put similar numbers with the Bills. The question is if the Bills passing O would have benefited from his presence on the team. It would be real tough for anyone to argue that it would not. Edited January 23, 2017 by Fan in Chicago
Retselpais Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Spewing hate on this board with regards to Hogan. He is a good player. In his present playing condition and current performance , Hogan is better than Woods , Goodwin and Watkins combined. Bill Belichick knows how to spot and develop gems. Shame on Buffalo for letting Hogan slip away. But then again the Bills don't have a Brady like QB to throw to a player like Hogan. I liked Hogan. And I am so happy that he is playing so well in NE. We should all be proud of Hogan, not be throwing insults his way for his achievements,
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 As you shouldnt. I too lamented him not being retained. For others trying to reconcile away his performance on the Pats**, the question is NOT whether he would have put similar numbers with the Bills. The question is if the Bills passing O would have benefited from his presence on the team. It would be real tough for anyone to argue that he would not. We couldn't retain him. The offer sheet was unmatchable with our cap situation. We also didn't put a 2nd round tender on him for the same reason. We wouldn't have been able to keep mills or bryant.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Perhaps we'll have a system under our new HC... I think'll that'll require a QB to grow a system around.
JohnC Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) your point about the problem would be much more noteworthy if he had been having big days the other 17 times he trotted out there for them. His YPC went up this season, but his touches relatively flat. That new england has a more developed intermediate passing game likely did help maximize his production. hitting him at the 15 yard mark instead of the 7 (on 3rd and 9) will certainly make a WR more efficient in his touches. additionally, having a qb that doesnt miss the wide open guy will get you big chunk yards (we had a bunch of open guys even in our primitive passing game). but lets not pretend yesterday is some week in and week out performance or that he did something that a lot of guys couldnt do in his role yesterday. Being a receiver on the Pats is not such an easy task that you can pluck any decent receiver in. You have to be able to run precise routes and you have to be able to make the adjustments that the qb expects. You can knock Hogan and diminish his production if you want but being able to be incorporated into that offense would be a challenge for many good receivers. The Pats are not your typical team that can be ranked by stats. They adjust their game plans on offense and defense on a weekly basis. You can be a forgotten receiver for some games and then be the prominent receiver in other games. Being able to adapt and be flexible is an important trait that a lot of players are incapable of . The Bills possess a lot of talented dumb players that Belichick would have no interest in because they lack the mental wherewithal to grasp the changing concepts. Make no mistake what I'm saying here. Hogan is a solid player but nothing special. However, he was a good fit in New England. That's the central point. Belichick gets low cost discarded pieces from other teams and puts those low cost players in a position to succeed. They should be admired for their innovative thinking and approach to the game. Their record speaks for itself; our record speaks for itself. Edited January 23, 2017 by JohnC
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Being a receiver on the Pats is not such an easy task that you can pluck any decent receiver in. You have to be able to run precise routes and you have to be able to make the adjustments that the qb expects. You can knock Hogan and diminish his production if you want but being able to be incorporated into that offense would be a challenge for many good receivers. The Pats are not your typical team that can be ranked by stats. They adjust their game plans on offense and defense on a weekly basis. You can be a forgotten receiver for some games and then be the prominent receiver in other games. Being able to adapt and be flexible is an important trait that a lot of players are incapable of . The Bills possess a lot of talented dumb players that Belichick would have no interest in because they lack the mental wherewithal to grasp the changing concepts. r Make no mistake what I'm saying here. Hogan is a solid player but nothing special. However, he was a good fit in New England. That's the central point. Belichick gets low cost discarded pieces from other teams and puts those low cost players in a position to succeed. They should be admired for their innovative thinking and approach to the game. Their record speaks for itself; our record speaks for itself. All true - except we didn't discard him.
FireChan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 All true - except we didn't discard him. Semantic argument. We lowballed him because we didn't care if he got away.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Semantic argument. We lowballed him because we didn't care if he got away. Not true - we had Mario's dead cap, Glenn's Franchise tag, and Gilmore's 5th year, oh and Richie's contract too. Until Glenn signed an extension we had very limited cap space to do anything. We non-tendered Rambo and Charles. We didn't put a 2nd round tender on him because we wanted to have you know... a little bit of room to dumpster dive and actually fill out our roster. Edited January 23, 2017 by dneveu
FireChan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Not true - we had Mario's dead cap, Glenn's Franchise tag, and Gilmore's 5th year, oh and Richie's contract too. Until Glenn signed an extension we had very limited cap space to do anything. We non-tendered Rambo and Charles. We didn't put a 2nd round tender on him because we wanted to have you know... a little bit of room to dumpster dive and actually fill out our roster. The difference was $700k. We didn't need it.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 The difference was $700k. We didn't need it. Hey I'm with ya... It wasn't a smart move but i get why they were pinching pennies.
JohnC Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 All true - except we didn't discard him.the P Check the Pats roster. There are many contributing players who were let go or picked-up for a pittance. The Pats picked him up after we weren't willing to pay a little more for him and they were.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Check the Pats roster. There are many contributing players who were let go or picked-up for a pittance. The Pats picked him up after we weren't willing to pay a little more for him and they were. We screwed up by not putting a 2nd round tender on him. We could never have matched the offer sheet though - not without knowing that Glenn was going to sign an extension. Edited January 23, 2017 by dneveu
FireChan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Hey I'm with ya... It wasn't a smart move but i get why they were pinching pennies. If you really wanted to pinch pennies, you don't tender him at all.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 If you really wanted to pinch pennies, you don't tender him at all. Yeah - i think we still wanted to keep him. After we lost him it was a tad ridiculous that we didn't make a play for anyone though. Especially in the draft in May. We draft a redshirted guy with an injury.
FireChan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Yeah - i think we still wanted to keep him. After we lost him it was a tad ridiculous that we didn't make a play for anyone though. Especially in the draft in May. We draft a redshirted guy with an injury. Especially with Sammy's surgery looming. Poor planning to say the least. Edited January 23, 2017 by FireChan
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