Rocky Landing Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) What should be laid to rest is the notion that the Bills record would be one bit different with Hogan vs without him. He can play in the league. So what? Bills fans are such idiots sometimes. As if this team would be within sniffing distance of the Super Bowl with Chris Hogan. Ridiculous. Don't put words in my mouth. IMO, having Hogan on the Bills this season would have been like having a second Robert Woods. And no, I don't think that would have gotten us another win. What I do find striking, though, is how far some Bills fans are willing to go to downplay the impact that Hogan is having on a Super Bowl caliber team. That I consider idiocy. Well, like him or not, one thing's for sure. He had a great performance in a very big game, can't take that away from him. And two weeks from now, he has an opportunity to go down in the history books. Gotta begrudgingly give him much respect. I agree. But, I don't really understand the grudge. Edited January 23, 2017 by Rocky Landing
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Saw a lot of blown coverages out there tonight on the balls he caught . Safety coverage and he bit on the run action etc  What should be laid to rest is the notion that the Bills record would be one bit different with Hogan vs without him. He can play in the league. So what? Bills fans are such idiots sometimes. As if this team would be within sniffing distance of the Super Bowl with Chris Hogan. Ridiculous. Why don't we shoot for "win one more game and (probably) make the playoffs" first ...
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Was the X-Files your favorite TV show and movie? Â Nope. Never watched an episode. It seems when I do watch the Pats though, it's the same movie over and over. Never seen one team officiated so differently and so predictably so, than every other. Maybe subconscious bias by the zebras, but it's definitely there. It certainly helps them. If they didn't have Brady and thus won less frequently, would they be though of as being innovative? Edited January 23, 2017 by Boatdrinks
Big C Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 No doubt our WR corps would have been better this year with him a part of it. But if Watkins and Woods were healthy all year we wouldn't be having this discussion. What an odd tweet from him lol  The teams actually been good about picking who to let walk for the most part Yeah, who else does he have in mind?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I wish I could remember who it was on this site with whom I made the bet at the beginning of the season, that by the end of the season, Hogan would have surpassed two out of the four of the Pats*: Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, and Bennet. My point at the time was that Hogan was a perfect fit in NE*. Well, he passed Amendola on the depth chart almost immediately. Certainly, I won't count Gronk, being on IR. But, tonight, in the conference championship game, Hogan was the Pats* #1 receiver. Most targets, most receptions, most yards. Regardless of how one feels about him personally (looking at you, Kirby), we should lay to rest the notion that he is a JAG. Â The Steelers zone defense got mugged, big time. They managed to take Edelman out and get in his head a bit, but they left Hogan wandering around in the secondary lonely and waving his arms like a sailor seeking a red light date. In contrast, the NE D was brilliant. Â Amendola is going to meet the Turk. He's the 4th highest paid player on the Pats and his production won't justify it in the Hoodies eyes. If Edelman keeps dropping balls like he did tonight, he may find that he too, is more expendable than one would think for the top WR on a championship team.
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Why don't we shoot for "win one more game and (probably) make the playoffs" first ... One more win would have been 8-8 and not in the playoffs. How many balls did Hogan catch when he was here? How many more games did they win? They didn't. He was here and we continued to lose. He went to a consistent winner and lo and behold that team continued to win. Why is this though of as a revelation? Why is it attributed to Hogan? I'd wager that team would still be headed to the Bowl if they had signed a different WR and Hogan stayed here.
Rocky Landing Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Â The Steelers zone defense got mugged, big time. They managed to take Edelman out and get in his head a bit, but they left Hogan wandering around in the secondary lonely and waving his arms like a sailor seeking a red light date. In contrast, the NE D was brilliant. Â Amendola is going to meet the Turk. He's the 4th highest paid player on the Pats and his production won't justify it in the Hoodies eyes. If Edelman keeps dropping balls like he did tonight, he may find that he too, is more expendable than one would think for the top WR on a championship team. Edelman's drop percentage has been super high for his entire career-- shockingly so. I have to believe it is his YAC that make him so valuable to the hoodie*. I think also that Brady* has been willing to throw to him in exceptionally tight coverage, which may also partially account for his frequent drops?
Rico Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Don't put words in my mouth. IMO, having Hogan on the Bills this season would have been like having a second Robert Woods. And no, I don't think that would have gotten us another win. What I do find it striking, though, is how far some Bills fans are willing to go to downplay the impact that Hogan is having on a Super Bowl caliber team. That I consider idiocy. Â I agree. But, I don't really understand the grudge. Because I was positive he was JAG, and I couldn't have been more wrong. I will admit when I have a bad take, but I don't like it. Â I did stop bashing him though after the Vikings game, major contributions to Bills wins are always appreciated.
Rico Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I wonder what the Vegas odds will be that Hogan gets SB MVP.
Nihilarian Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Arguing whether he is the second option or not isn't worth arguing over. What is impressive is that Belichick took a decent player from another team and got him to fit in well with the unit. Hogan added to the mix with Edeleman, Bennett and even Amendola helped to maintain the passing game, even with Gronk being out. Their brilliant HC has also made similar little moves without much draft investment for the running back grouping.  While most of the teams play checkers the Pats are playing chess. The Bills with their peculiar logic try to keep up by hiring Rex Ryan. LOL It really isn't worth arguing over as the Patriots actually have Hogan listed as their #2 wideout on their roster. http://www.patriots.com/schedule-and-stats/depth-chart  Clearly, he was their #1 receiver in that AFC Championship game with 9 rec for 180 yards, 2 TDs averaging 20.0 yards per catch. As he led the Patriots in yards and receptions as well as TD's. Julio type numbers for sure.  It burns me that Belichick managed to steal away from Buffalo a newer version of Wes Welker, Edelman, Amendola that has managed to stay healthy in his career so far. Meanwhile, the kid that the Bills gave up two first rounders for just had another foot surgery.  Even after watching this JAG kill a good Steeler defense that was #12 overall this year and held the Chiefs to under 200 passing yards in the previous playoff game. Some Bills fans still can't acknowledge that 7/11 might have been worth keeping in Buffalo.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) but whaley did save a bunch of money  I don't think that was entirely it. The coaches grade the players and set a value on them. Roman was still part of that last off-season. I think he under-valued Hogan for his capabilities as a WR, because he wants his #2 and #3 WR to do a lot of run blocking and Hogan, while he did it willingly, suffered for it - he ended the season with his wrist ligaments torn up, likely from run blocking he said (locker cleanout interview) I think Roman saw him as "not tough enough to hold up for his role" here.  He really hasn't been more productive for the Pats than he was for us - 38 receptions for 650 yds for them, 36 receptions for 680 yds for them, slightly better catch percentage. The Pats passing game is much better designed than ours was to enable YAC. He's been exactly what they expected him to be, a good solid WR who "does his job", goes hard every play, and gets open when Edelman, Bennett, and whoever else they put on the field are covered.  The Pats structured his contract pretty well so that the Bills couldn't match it. It's an average of $4M/yr for 3 years but they front-loaded it. Edelman's drop percentage has been super high for his entire career-- shockingly so. I have to believe it is his YAC that make him so valuable to the hoodie*. I think also that Brady* has been willing to throw to him in exceptionally tight coverage, which may also partially account for his frequent drops?  Agreed - Edelman has a high drop percentage partly because he gets a lot of the high "degree of difficulty" throws. But today he dropped a couple when no one was around. Edited January 23, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Don't put words in my mouth. IMO, having Hogan on the Bills this season would have been like having a second Robert Woods. And no, I don't think that would have gotten us another win. What I do find striking, though, is how far some Bills fans are willing to go to downplay the impact that Hogan is having on a Super Bowl caliber team. That I consider idiocy. Â I agree. But, I don't really understand the grudge. I don't downplay the impact . But the impact is because Hogan is there, not some other WR. Because I haven't seen him do anything that many ,many other WRs could not do if they were in that spot. It's a good fit for him, but nothing unique in the league by any means. If it wasn't him it would be someone else and hed be toiling in obscurity in the BUF. Â The grudge is because he plays for the enemy now. All players on that team are to be despised.
The Frankish Reich Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 The only thing to marvel at is they got extraordinarily lucky on a sixth round flyer draft pick QB . That's it. Everything else is a media ballwashing myth. That and the fact that the QB hasn't suffered a career ending or threatening injury so they've rode it for 15 plus seasons. Has zero to do with managing the cap constraints blah blah blah. It's about their QB and it will end when he's gone. And when that QB did suffer a career threatening injury, a completely mediocre QB led them to 11 wins, which, if I remember correctly, is 2 more wins than the Bills have managed in the past 17 seasons. Why can't people just admit it? They're a better run organization than the Bills. That's all.
Nihilarian Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 One more win would have been 8-8 and not in the playoffs. How many balls did Hogan catch when he was here? How many more games did they win? They didn't. He was here and we continued to lose. He went to a consistent winner and lo and behold that team continued to win. Why is this though of as a revelation? Why is it attributed to Hogan? I'd wager that team would still be headed to the Bowl if they had signed a different WR and Hogan stayed here. The Bills didn't lose games the past two years because of the offense as the defense had worse stats both years. Â The 2015 Bills under Wrex finished 31st in sacks, 32nd in QB hurries. The 2016 Bills finished 8th in sacks, 17th in QB hurries. So, even when they had more sacks the team really wasn't that good at getting to the QB. Â Both years the Buffalo defense failed to win more than one game against a team with a winning QB and that sole win was against Brian Hoyer. Â What made Hogan worth keeping in Buffalo was that most of the passes he caught were for first downs. Â Oh I dunno, 9 rec for 180 yards, 2 TD's made him the MVP of that AFC Championship game. Not something just anyone can do.
Rocky Landing Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I don't downplay the impact . But the impact is because Hogan is there, not some other WR. Because I haven't seen him do anything that many ,many other WRs could not do if they were in that spot. It's a good fit for him, but nothing unique in the league by any means. If it wasn't him it would be someone else and hed be toiling in obscurity in the BUF. Â The grudge is because he plays for the enemy now. All players on that team are to be despised. "I don't downplay the impact." And then you go on to downplay the impact. In the very next sentence. Hogan just broke the Pats* franchise record for receiving yards in a playoff game. That's not "unique?"
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 The Bills didn't lose games the past two years because of the offense as the defense had worse stats both years. Â The 2015 Bills under Wrex finished 31st in sacks, 32nd in QB hurries. The 2016 Bills finished 8th in sacks, 17th in QB hurries. So, even when they had more sacks the team really wasn't that good at getting to the QB. Â Both years the Buffalo defense failed to win more than one game against a team with a winning QB and that sole win was against Brian Hoyer. Â What made Hogan worth keeping in Buffalo was that most of the passes he caught were for first downs. Â Oh I dunno, 9 rec for 180 yards, 2 TD's made him the MVP of that AFC Championship game. Not something just anyone can do. Â So you think Hogan is as good a WR as Julio Jones ? Now that is a good one. Do you think Hogan was the focus of the PIT defense and they schemed all week to stop him? Yet he beat them anyway through his sheer talent? Lol it was pretty obvious he wasn't. They often left him uncovered . He was an afterthought to PIt and NE EXPLOITED THAT. Good for them.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Well, like him or not, one thing's for sure. He had a great performance in a very big game, can't take that away from him. And two weeks from now, he has an opportunity to go down in the history books. Gotta begrudgingly give him much respect.
Boatdrinks Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 "I don't downplay the impact." And then you go on to downplay the impact. In the very next sentence. Hogan just broke the Pats* franchise record for receiving yards in a playoff game. That's not "unique?" That's what happens when the opposing D barely even tries to cover you. He was an afterthought. That was an anomaly to be sure, but Hogan is not some unique talent in the league that PIT obviously schemed to take away all week yet he just beat the coverage anyway.
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I'd have liked to keep him. But we didn't have cap space at the time as we had franchised Glenn and added the 5th year for Gilmore. Not extending them earlier is why we didn't put a stronger tender on hogan, and why we didn't match the contract... I just double checked - 700k difference in tenders. It seems easy to say you tender higher then get a comp pick in a year when you let him walk.
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