Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) I think it is hard to judge Hogan with NE and compare it to what he may have done In Buffalo, for a few reasons: 1. Pats have a lot more talent in the WR/TE and RB (catching the ball) than the bills so he is going see fewer targets because of it. 2. Brady is as many pointed out one of the GOAT and will make people look better. 3. IMO a damn amazing O Coordinator scheming plays that work best against an opponent. I agree with the bolded. The point on the others is that Hogan is the same player that he always was. He makes less plays but bigger plays in a Pats uniform. He is just a guy though. He can be replaced fairly easily. If Hogan went out of the lineup and Mitchell took those reps would the offense take steps back? I don't think so (at all). That's the definition of just a guy. It doesn't mean that he isn't an NFL player it means that the offense doesn't change because of him. When Gronk is out things change, when Edelman is out things change, when Hogan is out they don't. We have the same situation here. It doesn't matter if it is Powell or Lewis or Salas or whoever. They are virtually interchangeable parts. Edited January 3, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Alphadawg7 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I think it is hard to judge Hogan with NE and compare it to what he may have done In Buffalo, for a few reasons: 1. Pats have a lot more talent in the WR/TE and RB (catching the ball) than the bills so he is going see fewer targets because of it. 2. Brady is as many pointed out one of the GOAT and will make people look better. 3. IMO a damn amazing O Coordinator scheming plays that work best against an opponent. I am not a fan of the O Coordinator...the NE offense didn't miss a beat without McDaniels...Brady and BB make that offense tick more than any OC ever will. McDaniels was a disaster in Denver as a HC then went to St. Louis as an OC where he was fired after one terrible season as well before landing back in NE to have his "reputation" rebuilt by Brady and Bill. Not a fan...IMO he gets way more credit than he deserves thanks to the brilliance and talent of both BB and Brady. Honestly, McDaniels reminds me of Lane Kiffin, someone else everyone should stay away from. 2 incredible coaches made him look good (Pete at USC and now Saban) but has been a train wreck when on his own. I pray we don't do something dumb and hire this guy as our next HC. I would be much more interested in you DC than your OC as a HC candidate.
PatsFanNH Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I am not a fan of the O Coordinator...the NE offense didn't miss a beat without McDaniels...Brady and BB make that offense tick more than any OC ever will. McDaniels was a disaster in Denver as a HC then went to St. Louis as an OC where he was fired after one terrible season as well before landing back in NE to have his "reputation" rebuilt by Brady and Bill. Not a fan...IMO he gets way more credit than he deserves thanks to the brilliance and talent of both BB and Brady. Honestly, McDaniels reminds me of Lane Kiffin, someone else everyone should stay away from. 2 incredible coaches made him look good (Pete at USC and now Saban) but has been a train wreck when on his own. I pray we don't do something dumb and hire this guy as our next HC. I would be much more interested in you DC than your OC as a HC candidate. Lol on blaming him for the disaster O in St Luis. Funny thing is Salad was probably the best WR they had when he was there lol. The talent level there sucked! And it's obvious the Rams don't feel the same way as you and a lot of other bills fans do as they are interviewing him. As for Denver he was young and not ready yet.. Brady says McDaniels is the best OC he has ever had. (That includes O'Brien and Weis)
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 He might be but he certainly doesn't command the attention that Goodwin does. He keeps safeties away from the LOS and that helps in the running game. At this stage this is nonsense Kirby it really is. And you know I value you as a poster and have great respect for your insight and opinions but nobody was game planning to stop Goodwin this year.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Lol on blaming him for the disaster O in St Luis. Funny thing is Salad was probably the best WR they had when he was there lol. The talent level there sucked! And it's obvious the Rams don't feel the same way as you and a lot of other bills fans do as they are interviewing him. As for Denver he was young and not ready yet.. Brady says McDaniels is the best OC he has ever had. (That includes O'Brien and Weis) if the offense sucks because of a lack of talent, you don't fire a talented OC after one season. Yes, the Rams team wasnt exactly "talented", but they knew that and still fired him after only one season. And I would call the Denver reign a disaster, in fact I don't know a single Denver fan that would dispute that. And most importantly, the NE offense did not miss a single beat without him. Who knows, he may go on to redeem himself somewhere, but right now he has failed badly and been fired both places he has been that wasnt named NE and didn't have BB and Brady. And the Rams have different people in charge now, so they don't have the same perspective as the regime that fired him after one season. Plus, being in NE he has refurbished his name...but is it because he is that good, or is it because of Brady and BB. One final thought...no former coordinator under Bill has ever gone on to be a good HC anywhere else in the NFL. The only exception is O'Brien, but he is being rumored as having his job dependent on getting out of the first round right now and could possibly be fired if he doesn't. So not exactly lighting the league on fire either with a barely over .500 record in Houston. So, I don't have a lot of faith in McDaniels and I don't want to be the team that gambles on him actually being good rather than just another product of the greatest head coach and QB combo in NFL history. Edited January 3, 2017 by Alphadawg7
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 if the offense sucks because of a lack of talent, you don't fire a talented OC after one season. Yes, the Rams team wasnt exactly "talented", but they knew that and still fired him after only one season. And I would call the Denver reign a disaster, in fact I don't know a single Denver fan that would dispute that. And most importantly, the NE offense did not miss a single beat without him. Who knows, he may go on to redeem himself somewhere, but right now he has failed badly and been fired both places he has been that wasnt named NE and didn't have BB and Brady. And the Rams have different people in charge now, so they don't have the same perspective as the regime that fired him after one season. Plus, being in NE he has refurbished his name...but is it because he is that good, or is it because of Brady and BB. One final thought...no former coordinator under Bill has ever gone on to be a good HC anywhere else in the NFL. The only exception is O'Brien, but he is being rumored as having his job dependent on getting out of the first round right now and could possibly be fired if he doesn't. So not exactly lighting the league on fire either with a barely over .500 record in Houston. So, I don't have a lot of faith in McDaniels and I don't want to be the team that gambles on him actually being good rather than just another product of the greatest head coach and QB combo in NFL history. I know you specified NFL, but I can't let Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban slide here. They're great coaches regardless of level.
PatsFanNH Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I know you specified NFL, but I can't let Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban slide here. They're great coaches regardless of level. He also forgets the GM for the Falcons is also from BB tree.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I know you specified NFL, but I can't let Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban slide here. They're great coaches regardless of level. He also forgets the GM for the Falcons is also from BB tree. Again, I specifically stated NFL head coaches that came from the BB coaching tree. And the GM in Atlanta was not a coach under BB, so that isn't even a relevant example. In what world is a scout part of a coaching tree or have anything to do with being an NFL coach? In regards to Saban and Kirk: 1. Coaching in the NFL and coaching in College are different animals, success in one doesnt mean success in the other. So no disrespect to Saban and Kirk, but their success in college doesn't excite me about other coordinators of BB coaching in the NFL. 2. Both those guys were under him in Cleveland. None of his coordinators in NE have ever gone on to have any real success at either College or NFL. O'Brien as been the closest, although all the talk is that he will lose his job with a first round exit in the playoffs this year. As far as Dimitroff goes, his seat has been getting hot recently. In 2008 he started hot in his first season with the Falcons inheriting the first overall draft pick and choosing the consensus #1 player in Matt Ryan. Not rocket science, anyone that would have been the GM that year would have taken Ryan #1. Since the promising start with some good success those first 4 to 5 years, the Falcons fell off especially with him never being able to build anything that resembled a decent defense. In the 3 years prior to this year, the Falcons were a combined 18-30 despite having Julio, Ryan and company. Last year they started 6-1 only to go 2-7 the rest of the year. Finally this year, Atlanta put it together again for the whole season, we will see how they do in the playoffs and if they can avoid another early exit that has plagued most their previous post season births in his era as GM.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 At this stage this is nonsense Kirby it really is. And you know I value you as a poster and have great respect for your insight and opinions but nobody was game planning to stop Goodwin this year. Not necessarily game planning but he doesn't get pressed and safeties stay deep. His deep speed is respected. I suspect, Kolby Listenbee will get the same treatment. That's doesn't mean that they are great or even good receivers. They have an elite skill and defenses account for that.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Not necessarily game planning but he doesn't get pressed and safeties stay deep. His deep speed is respected. I suspect, Kolby Listenbee will get the same treatment. That's doesn't mean that they are great or even good receivers. They have an elite skill and defenses account for that. I agree with you Kirby, Goodwin has multiple deep Touchdowns in his limited time on the field and has proven he is explosive and capable of big plays. His value is as a 3rd or 4th guy on the field when we have other threats like Sammy and Woods out there. Teams absolutely pay attention when he is on the field and you can see them drop coverage deep off him to avoid the big play. He is not that threatening in other areas of the field, but his deep threat opens up the field for others. The exception I think is when he is in there as top 2 receiver due to injuries, thats when he is less threatening.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I agree with you Kirby, Goodwin has multiple deep Touchdowns in his limited time on the field and has proven he is explosive and capable of big plays. His value is as a 3rd or 4th guy on the field when we have other threats like Sammy and Woods out there. Teams absolutely pay attention when he is on the field and you can see them drop coverage deep off him to avoid the big play. He is not that threatening in other areas of the field, but his deep threat opens up the field for others. The exception I think is when he is in there as top 2 receiver due to injuries, thats when he is less threatening. Yeah, I don't necessarily think that he is even good. The point that I was making is that teams have to adjust to him in a way that they don't for someone like Danny Amendola, Hogan or Woods. That doesn't mean that he is better. He does open things up though (we haven't always taken advantage).
Alphadawg7 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I actually think he would put up better stats in NE than Amendola or Hogan because Brady not only could hit him deep but also hit him in stride out of the slot where his speed would allow lots of big plays from RAC. When you have Bennett and Gronk clearing out the middle, a guy like him would be a home run threat anywhere on the field he touched the ball with a guy like Brady hitting him in stride on those timing routes.
LI_Bills Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 28 pages of posts for Hogan? Good player, I wish him all the best (well not really since he's a Patriot now). He is a healthy receiver on the Pats so he will get catches if he's good enough to make the roster. Who was the guy that had 20 receptions in the SB, Deion Branch? Went to Seattle, did nothing, came back to the Pats and lasted a year or so. Probably an above average receiver at his peak the SB year
Doc Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Funny how once JAG Hogan goes to the Cheaters, he starts getting calls like that one.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Funny how once JAG Hogan goes to the Cheaters, he starts getting calls like that one. Very much unlike when a JAG goes to the Jags.
boyst Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 he's still a douche, always was a douche but still we should have attempted to retain him. It would not have hurt us at all. Very much unlike when a JAG goes to the Jags. the real test is when a Jag goes to the Pats.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Oh freaking get over it. This thread is dumb.
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