Sorry, but I'm still going to miss Hogan

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

 

That wasn't the premise. I can se why you would want to draw attention that way because what I actually said repeatedly is that having another good WR would always benefit a struggling QB.

 

Do you think TT and the Bills would have been no better off with Hogans than who they were trotting out there until Sammy was comfortable enough to play? This is a team that was so desperate for WRs that they thought it was a good idea to pull Percy Harvin off his couch onto the filed after 16 months out of the league!

I understand what you've said but in fact I actually don't think we would have been better with Hogan. When all the receivers were injuired I don't think Hogan as our number one would have been a great spot to be in. He doesn't have to be a number one in NE. It's just my opinion, much like you have an opinion. Edited December 13, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Nihilarian]

 

 

That wasn't the premise. I can se why you would want to draw attention that way because what I actually said repeatedly is that having another good WR would always benefit a struggling QB.

 

Do you think TT and the Bills would have been no better off with Hogans than who they were trotting out there until Sammy was comfortable enough to play? This is a team that was so desperate for WRs that they thought it was a good idea to pull Percy Harvin off his couch onto the filed after 16 months out of the league!

Some fans would rather disparage the QB then acknowledge that Chris Hogan would have been a great asset to have in Buffalo this year.

[prissythecat]

Hogan is a ten a penny type of guy based on the epic Da'Rick thread from a few seasons back. Why are we debating him still =)

[Boatdrinks]

So now it comes down to "Hogan could have gotten injured on day 1"?

 

Look, you and other are contorting yourselves into pretzels to try to explain an obvious truism: it's always better to have better players. This is particularly true with a WRs and a struggling QB.

 

A fool's game? You could easily have made the claim that NOT ONE individual player's presence on this team (except maybe McCoy) affected their record. Get rid of anyone (Sammy, Dareus, anyone) and the outcome would have been the same as it is now.

 

So what is your freaking point? The Bills should have kept Hogan over another player at WR? Fine. I would have kept him over Goodwin. Some like vanilla , some like Chocolate. The Bills coaches et al chose a different guy. There is no contorting going on. Just the realization that a player such as Hogan would likely not have changed the Bills season at all. It's an obsession over nothing. Would a healthy Watkins have made a difference in their record, or any other player for that matter? History would say no. The Bills have hovered around .500 forever, even with the great Chris Hogan on the roster. The Pats are stacked top to bottom with " better players" than the Bills and have a top QB. A WR that is marginally better at certain things than the next guy wouldn't have changed the Bills record in all likelihood , and isn't worth crying over. There are players on the Bills right now that could be effective on the Pats. So what? They don't have a QB that can produce wins and not much else will matter until they do. The record says so, arguing otherwise is indeed a fools game. Saying that keeping one player over another at a position that suffered many injuries would have mattered is nonsense. It's possible that said player could have been one of the injured players at said position if he was on the team.

Some fans would rather disparage the QB then acknowledge that Chris Hogan would have been a great asset to have in Buffalo this year.

Or just know enough about their team to know they were not a Chris Hogan away from a winning record this year. Or know that Hogan could easily have been one of those injured WRs had he been on the Bills. The route concepts are different, the QB is VERY different... If you think Tom Brady and Tyrod Taylor are similar level QBs , we'll have fun with that.

[Mr. WEO]

So what is your freaking point? The Bills should have kept Hogan over another player at WR? Fine. I would have kept him over Goodwin. Some like vanilla , some like Chocolate. The Bills coaches et al chose a different guy. There is no contorting going on. Just the realization that a player such as Hogan would likely not have changed the Bills season at all. It's an obsession over nothing. Would a healthy Watkins have made a difference in their record, or any other player for that matter? History would say no. The Bills have hovered around .500 forever, even with the great Chris Hogan on the roster. The Pats are stacked top to bottom with " better players" than the Bills and have a top QB. A WR that is marginally better at certain things than the next guy wouldn't have changed the Bills record in all likelihood , and isn't worth crying over. There are players on the Bills right now that could be effective on the Pats. So what? They don't have a QB that can produce wins and not much else will matter until they do. The record says so, arguing otherwise is indeed a fools game. Saying that keeping one player over another at a position that suffered many injuries would have mattered is nonsense. It's possible that said player could have been one of the injured players at said position if he was on the team.

 

 

Then why do you keep using this as to why they were right in not re-singing him? In fact, you said it two sentences before the bolded part.

 

If you think Hogan would have been of zero help on this WR roster, I can't change your mind. The "could have been injured too" stuff you should drop though, it's goofy and meaningless as an argument.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[Boatdrinks]

Hogan is a ten a penny type of guy based on the epic Da'Rick thread from a few seasons back. Why are we debating him still =)

 

Hogan is a Buffalo kind of player - i.e - u drafted lunch pail white marginal WR. I get it , people liked to root for him. To me , he is now the enemy on the dark side that is New England. I no longer root for him, I root against him. I also realize that just about any player on the Bills could go to New England and look decent , be more productive than in Buffalo. I also realize Hogan and many others like him are not the reason the Bills cannot get above .500 . He's just not worth thinking about anymore, but folks would rather focus on him than what is wrong with this organization.

Then why do you keep using this as to why they were right in not re-singing him? In fact, you said it two sentences before the bolded part.

 

If you think Hogan would have been of zero help on this WR roster, I can't change your mind. The "could have been injured too" stuff you should drop though, it's goofy and meaningless as an argument.

I'm not saying they were right , just that circumstances dictated that he was able to be swiped due to their miscalculation. The larger point is that their record would not be any different with or without Chris Hogan , or others like him. I'm saying it just didn't matter much at all, and is not worth following the guys stats on a much better team top to bottom with a HOF QB.

And at a position where the Bills suffered many injuries , saying that they should have kept player A over player B because that player would not have gotten injured is well, silly.

[Doc]

The Bills weren't wrong in not re-signing him. And the Cheaters gave him a generous contract given his previous body of work.

[Mr. WEO]

Hogan is a Buffalo kind of player - i.e - u drafted lunch pail white marginal WR. I get it , people liked to root for him. To me , he is now the enemy on the dark side that is New England. I no longer root for him, I root against him. I also realize that just about any player on the Bills could go to New England and look decent , be more productive than in Buffalo. I also realize Hogan and many others like him are not the reason the Bills cannot get above .500 . He's just not worth thinking about anymore, but folks would rather focus on him than what is wrong with this organization.

 

I'm not saying they were right , just that circumstances dictated that he was able to be swiped due to their miscalculation. The larger point is that their record would not be any different with or without Chris Hogan , or others like him. I'm saying it just didn't matter much at all, and is not worth following the guys stats on a much better team top to bottom with a HOF QB.

And at a position where the Bills suffered many injuries , saying that they should have kept player A over player B because that player would not have gotten injured is well, silly.

 

Or any other player, as you just said. Nor did I say he wouldn't have gotten injured.

 

Anyway, saying it was ok not to re-sign him because he might have been injured too would rule out all signings.

The Bills weren't wrong in not re-signing him. And the Cheaters gave him a generous contract given his previous body of work.

 

 

Turns out he's a bargain.

 

Maybe you were thinking of Clay's contract with the Bills?

[Nihilarian]

Or just know enough about their team to know they were not a Chris Hogan away from a winning record this year. Or know that Hogan could easily have been one of those injured WRs had he been on the Bills. The route concepts are different, the QB is VERY different... If you think Tom Brady and Tyrod Taylor are similar level QBs , we'll have fun with that.

The Bills offense has been stymied quite a bit this year and when the run game fails it all falls on the QB to make plays. Looking at Hogan's play from last year and the fact that the kid caught more first down passes than any other pass for Buffalo I tend to think Tyrod Taylor misses him a great deal this year.

 

Plus, Chris Hogan was basically the only healthy Bills receiver for all of 2015 and still is healthy for the Patriots this year. So, I don't get why anyone would think he is anything like the current glass WR's on the Buffalo roster, excluding Woods.

 

Look, I don't really care that Hogan is now a Patriot. What I do care about is GM Doug Whaley allowed him to leave and like with other positions didn't adequately replace him with an equal or better talent. There is a real reason as to why the Patriots went after him and signed him for so much money and it's because the kid makes the clutch catch and can stay healthy!

[Boatdrinks]

The Bills offense has been stymied quite a bit this year and when the run game fails it all falls on the QB to make plays. Looking at Hogan's play from last year and the fact that the kid caught more first down passes than any other pass for Buffalo I tend to think Tyrod Taylor misses him a great deal this year.

 

Plus, Chris Hogan was basically the only healthy Bills receiver for all of 2015 and still is healthy for the Patriots this year. So, I don't get why anyone would think he is anything like the current glass WR's on the Buffalo roster, excluding Woods.

 

Look, I don't really care that Hogan is now a Patriot. What I do care about is GM Doug Whaley allowed him to leave and like with other positions didn't adequately replace him with an equal or better talent. There is a real reason as to why the Patriots went after him and signed him for so much money and it's because the kid makes the clutch catch and can stay healthy!

 

I thought he had a wrist injury in Buffalo. Anyway, believe what you want. The Bills have been . 500 with the Chris Hogans of the NFL and without him. He was kind of inconsequential here and would continue to be. Injuries are pretty random in the NFL with the exception of maybe Glass Goodwin who just doesn't have the body type to withstand it. The difference in Hogans talent and other WRs on the roster not named Woods or Watkins is marginal at best.

[Utah John]

^{The Pats were right to sign him because his skills fit what Brady does and how BB coaches. The Bills were right not to match the offer because they can't use him. Guys like him make a great cut and are wide open for a brief moment, when Brady's pass hits them in the hands. TT watches that guy get open and then get covered, and then runs out of the pocket. Also Hogan was frustrated by not starting ahead of Woods, who he (Hogan) thought he was better than. So he wanted out. Him moving to NE was a win for him, and win for the Pats, and not much of a loss for the Bills (with TT at QB).}

[Doc]

Turns out he's a bargain.

 

Maybe you were thinking of Clay's contract with the Bills?

 

Hardly a bargain. He's got as many TD's as Hunter.

[Boatdrinks]

Or any other player, as you just said. Nor did I say he wouldn't have gotten injured.

 

Anyway, saying it was ok not to re-sign him because he might have been injured too would rule out all signings.

 

 

Turns out he's a bargain.

 

Maybe you were thinking of Clay's contract with the Bills?

A clay type TE was a much bigger need for the Bills in today's NFL. Yes the QB sucks and can't take advantage of him , not all that different from using a Hogan or any other WR. Im not saying that you don't sign a guy because he might be injured . If that's what you got out of saying that the Bills had a rash of injuries at WR and keeping player A over player B would not have guranteed fewer injuries at that position I don't know what to tell you. Your argument was that the Bills suffered lists of injuries at WR ; ergo they could have used Hogan instead of another WR. We do not know that Hogan would have even been available to help , he may have been one of the injured players. No, there is no way to foresee this and it's not used in evaluating whether to sign a guy. Just pointing out there is no way to know if Hogan would be available. Do Bills WRs get hurt more often because Tyrod throws them into hits? I don't know.

Hardly a bargain. He's got as many TD's as Hunter.

 

But c'mon . Don't let facts get in the way of a good story. Hogan was a lunch- pail high motor white undrafted WR. The kind Bills fans can root for even when he goes to a hated division rival

The Bills weren't wrong in not re-signing him. And the Cheaters gave him a generous contract given his previous body of work.

In terms of wins and losses, the likelihood is they were not wrong.

[dave mcbride]

 

Hardly a bargain. He's got as many TD's as Hunter.

?? - Explain. He has 613 yards receiving and is averaging 19.2 ypc. How does that compare to Hunter? And Boatdrinks, this post is actually an example of NOT letting facts getting in the way of a good story. Trotting out TD stats alone is weak analysis.

Edited December 13, 2016 by dave mcbride

[Nihilarian]

 

Hardly a bargain. He's got as many TD's as Hunter.

Hunter currently leads the Bills in receiving TD's with four...

 

Goodwin has 3

Watkins has 1

Clay has 1

Woods has 1

Salas has 1

McCoy has 1

Gillislee has1

 

Hogan has 32 receptions for 632 yards, 4 TD's and looking at the current state of the Bills receiving corps I'd say Buffalo could have really used a guy who was nicknamed 7/11 this season. If anyone is overpaid it's Clay. Now that the Patriots lost Gronkowski for the year and Amendola for a time and Edelman can't seem to catch anymore I think Hogan will really start to shine for NE. Against the Ravens, Hogan had 5 rec for 129 yards, 1 TD.

 

You guys think what you want.

[Boatdrinks]

?? - Explain. He has 613 yards receiving and is averaging 19.2 ypc. How does that compare to Hunter? And Boatdrinks, this post is actually an example of NOT letting facts getting in the way of a good story. Trotting out TD stats alone is weak analysis.

It's about scoring points , no? TDs alone are not strong analysis. I'm still waiting to be convinced by any stats that Hogan would have changed the Bills record. I also don't think the Pats record would be any different if they had a different WR instead of Hogan, they'd be right where they are now. Believe otherwise if you wish.

Hunter currently leads the Bills in receiving TD's with four...

 

Goodwin has 3

Watkins has 1

Clay has 1

Woods has 1

Salas has 1

McCoy has 1

Gillislee has1

 

Hogan has 32 receptions for 632 yards, 4 TD's and looking at the current state of the Bills receiving corps I'd say Buffalo could have really used a guy who was nicknamed 7/11 this season. If anyone is overpaid it's Clay. Now that the Patriots lost Gronkowski for the year and Amendola for a time and Edelman can't seem to catch anymore I think Hogan will really start to shine for NE. Against the Ravens, Hogan had 5 rec for 129 yards, 1 TD.

 

You guys think what you want.

Ok then . Yes, we all know that Clay was overpaid in FA. The Bills lacked a TE of quality. I'm not sure how much the Bills QB could have used Hogan as he cant even take advantage of Clay. I don't care one bit about what any player does on NE and actually hope all NE players get lost to injury. It's a different team with a different QB and thinking Hogan could do anything on the Bills that he could do on the Patriots is just flawed . Especially since he was here before and his numbers wouldn't likely have been much different . The Bills problems are mostly at QB , not WR.

[The Frankish Reich]

I bumped up this thread just to see if Hogan Derangement Syndrome (defined as the compulsion to trash a good and useful player for no apparent reason) was still alive and well in Buffalo. I'm pleased to report that it is! My next use of the search function: the comments about how the Bills were crazy to keep Hogan at the expense of losing Da'Rick. I think a little Easley love ❤️ can be found in there too.

[Rocky Landing]

[Boatdrinks]

I bumped up this thread just to see if Hogan Derangement Syndrome (defined as the compulsion to trash a good and useful player for no apparent reason) was still alive and well in Buffalo. I'm pleased to report that it is! My next use of the search function: the comments about how the Bills were crazy to keep Hogan at the expense of losing Da'Rick. I think a little Easley love ❤️ can be found in there too.

It's not as common an Hogan Obsession syndrome apparently. That's defined as believing that marginal players on the roster are a magic bullet for years of mismanagement, mediocre head coaches , bumbled draft picks , and not having a real NFL caliber quarterback in going on 20 years. This affliction also results in a man crush so strong that the player is still followed and rooted for even when he departs the home team and plays for the enemy. The afflicted lose rationality and believe their beloved player is being " trashed" by those who see them for what they are: Generally , a " guy in the league" that doesn't have the upper echelon talent to be a large factor in a team's success or failure. There currently is no known vaccine or cure for this.

[Andrew Son]

TT couldn't use Jerry Rice but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We have open guys running all over the field. TT never sees them. Why does it matter if Hogan is running open? It stings to see him do things in NE more than anything, but he'd just be running around Buffalo wide open.

I love how the argument has morphed from hogan sucks to, well, TT wouldn't use him anyway