Don't sleep on Glass Goodwin--making a good impression

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

It's a simple question really. Give it a shot.

 

If he continues to have a good camp, translates that into preseason performance without getting injured, you can't cut the guy just because he's gotten hurt in the past. He's the best WR in the room not wearing #14 or #10.

 

I made the argument last year that his injuries to date haven't really been "chronic" type injuries that would linger or resurface, more bad breaks. He broke his hand (could happen to anyone), broke his ribs when a lineman kneed him (part of that injury was on Goodwin for putting himself in that position -- but when a 300+ lb guy falls on you knee first, it's gonna break a rib), then he's had one or two hamstring issues. He seems to be injury prone... but the nature of his past injuries aren't really the sort that scream "fragile" as much as they do "bad luck".

 

His talent, contract, and value to the team if healthy is too much to cut him in favor of a guy like Hankerson for example just because you think he might get hurt again. It's a poor way to run a team. Now, if he gets hurt again this camp or preseason -- then you have a case. But if he makes it through unscathed, I'm not sure you can cut him just because you expect him to get injured in future.

[Saxum]

Even if Goodwin beats coverage for more than one catch against a team he will not repeat it because of his reputation of not being able to take a hit; he will be constantly hit hard within 5 yards of scrimmage forcing Bills to use him in bunch formations and the opposing teams DBs will be looking to hit him hard when he gets the ball or trying to dislodge it. I do not think he is a 16 game player and hate having Bills pay full season pay for partial seasons.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I don't need to. My point has been made. You're just arguing to argue. There are plenty of factors as to why he hasn't contributed more, the primary one being his own inability to stay on the field. Having a Pop Warner offense and suspect QBs didn't help things, let's see what happens this year with an actual NFL coordinator calling plays.

 

No one who has paid attention to what Goodwin has actually done on the field doubts his ability to be a WR in the league and more than just a "track guy". That's a lazy analysis to make because it's easy and inaccurate. Truth is he can be an impact player... if he can stay healthy. I hope he does because the Bills sure could use him.

how many years do you spend a roster spot on him hoping that he figures out how to stay off the injury report from a few touches per game.

 

A fast car that's always in the shop is nothing more than eye candy. Give me a slow old Anquan Bolden who gets open, catches the ball and is usually active on Sunday

[snafu]

 

 

We've covered "guys with world class speed" already. There have been a ton of low 40 sprinters come and go in the league at WR. This gift is not unique to him and is also shared by many of the guys who cover him.

 

Has this guy not gotten a "serious look"?? He's been on the roster 3 years already and has absolutely proven that he cannot be counted on to be worthy of a spot. I'm not sure how it could be more clear that swapping him out for another low guy on the depth chart is unlikely to be a worse roster move this off season than keeping a guy who has proven not physically fit for this game.

 

Let's try something different: why would anyone think that, this year, he will again be injured and miss a bunch of games? Why is that a logical conclusion?

 

Last year, he broke his ribs in preseason and the team eventually put him on season ending IR - probably at about week 6. At that time, Percy Harvin was ahead of him in the depth chart. If the Bills agree with your opinion then he'd have been cut at nearly no cost to the team. Rather than do that, they are giving him another shot and making him compete against fellow potential cast-offs.

 

If he and the other guys in camp are so close in ability then the team can go get one if he gets hurt again. He must be actually showing them something besides measurables because by all appearances he's third on the depth chart.

 

This is a bad plan? If he doesn't make it then fine. If he does then that's fine, too, I hope then that he does great and stays healthy.

[Mr. WEO]

 

If he continues to have a good camp, translates that into preseason performance without getting injured, you can't cut the guy just because he's gotten hurt in the past. He's the best WR in the room not wearing #14 or #10.

 

I made the argument last year that his injuries to date haven't really been "chronic" type injuries that would linger or resurface, more bad breaks. He broke his hand (could happen to anyone), broke his ribs when a lineman kneed him (part of that injury was on Goodwin for putting himself in that position -- but when a 300+ lb guy falls on you knee first, it's gonna break a rib), then he's had one or two hamstring issues. He seems to be injury prone... but the nature of his past injuries aren't really the sort that scream "fragile" as much as they do "bad luck".

 

His talent, contract, and value to the team if healthy is too much to cut him in favor of a guy like Hankerson for example just because you think he might get hurt again. It's a poor way to run a team. Now, if he gets hurt again this camp or preseason -- then you have a case. But if he makes it through unscathed, I'm not sure you can cut him just because you expect him to get injured in future.

 

Luck or fragile is a hair that doesn't need to be split in this case. And he suffered 2 separate rib injuries that washed out his 2015 season (300# lineman fall on all WR's).

 

It's about risk management. Do you spend a spot on a guy who in 2 of his only3 seasons as a pro, cannot stay on the field? Is hoping the 4th time is a charm a better way to run a dream? That is what I'm getting at.

 

A lot of what is being said about Goodwin, re: speed, was said about Graham. Both college track stars, both 3rd rounders. One's already gone, despite the blazing speed. The other never even achieved TJ Graham numbers, and is injury prone.

 

"Surviving training camp" really isn't a helpful metric when discussing Goodwin.

[GG]

 

Luck or fragile is a hair that doesn't need to be split in this case. And he suffered 2 separate rib injuries that washed out his 2015 season (300# lineman fall on all WR's).

 

It's about risk management. Do you spend a spot on a guy who in 2 of his only3 seasons as a pro, cannot stay on the field? Is hoping the 4th time is a charm a better way to run a dream? That is what I'm getting at.

 

A lot of what is being said about Goodwin, re: speed, was said about Graham. Both college track stars, both 3rd rounders. One's already gone, despite the blazing speed. The other never even achieved TJ Graham numbers, and is injury prone.

 

"Surviving training camp" really isn't a helpful metric when discussing Goodwin.

 

You must buy straws in bulk to build those men.

 

Since you make fun of sample sizes, why did you list fast WRs who aren't very good at catching the ball, instead of listing fast WRs who are good at catching the ball?

 

Why not compare Goodwin to Antonio Brown?

[dave mcbride]

 

 

We've covered "guys with world class speed" already. There have been a ton of low 40 sprinters come and go in the league at WR. This gift is not unique to him and is also shared by many of the guys who cover him.

 

Has this guy not gotten a "serious look"?? He's been on the roster 3 years already and has absolutely proven that he cannot be counted on to be worthy of a spot. I'm not sure how it could be more clear that swapping him out for another low guy on the depth chart is unlikely to be a worse roster move this off season than keeping a guy who has proven not physically fit for this game.

 

Let's try something different: why would anyone think that, this year, he will again be injured and miss a bunch of games? Why is that a logical conclusion?

There have been a lot of players who did nothing their first 2-3 years and then figured it out. Eric Moulds was terrible his first two seasons. Cliff Branch, John Stallworth, and John Taylor all needed a couple of years to figure it out. Hell, so did Quinn Early. Goodwin may end up being a nobody, but he was hurt last season, is healthy now, and has obvious talent. Let's see what he can do. He looks to me like a much better player than Graham -- he's faster with more quickness and better hands.

[snafu]

There have been a lot of players who did nothing their first 2-3 years and then figured it out. Eric Moulds was terrible his first two seasons. Cliff Branch, John Stallworth, and John Taylor all needed a couple of years to figure it out. Hell, so did Quinn Early. Goodwin may end up being a nobody, but he was hurt last season, is healthy now, and has obvious talent. Let's see what he can do. He looks to me like a much better player than Graham -- he's faster with more quickness and better hands.

 

 

And he doesn't run the wrong route or take stupid offensive penalties away from the ball like Graham did.

[Deranged Rhino]

how many years do you spend a roster spot on him hoping that he figures out how to stay off the injury report from a few touches per game.

 

A fast car that's always in the shop is nothing more than eye candy. Give me a slow old Anquan Bolden who gets open, catches the ball and is usually active on Sunday

 

It's certainly a conversation that should/will be had by the coaches when they're compiling the final roster, but if he makes it out of camp and preseason action without getting hurt I don't think it'd be wise to cut him because you think he's going to get hurt at some point in the season. Not on his first contract at least.

 

It's certainly a compelling argument to make in terms of resigning him to a deal or as a UFA next year, and one I'm sure every suitor will have, but because of his contract number, his draft position, and most importantly because of his talent, I don't think you can preemptively cut him this year.

 

Again, if he gets hurt though, all bets are off.

 

 

A lot of what is being said about Goodwin, re: speed, was said about Graham. Both college track stars, both 3rd rounders. One's already gone, despite the blazing speed. The other never even achieved TJ Graham numbers, and is injury prone.

 

"Surviving training camp" really isn't a helpful metric when discussing Goodwin.

 

Goodwin is a much better football player than Graham ever was. This is a silly comparison, like I said it's lazy and easy and inaccurate.

 

Surviving training camp and all the preseason games is all they can go on. If the WR room had more talent, if he were more of a bubble player, then it'd certainly be a more interesting debate. But the guy has proven to be able to beat the press and use his speed as more than a gimmick.

 

He just hasn't been able to stay healthy. If he can stay healthy, he's the 3rd best WR on the team and it's not even close. You don't cut your 3rd best WR just because he might get hurt unless you have someone nipping at his heels on the depth chart. The Bills don't seem to have that guy.

[CardinalScotts]

I'd hate to count on the game and have him in the game plan because he is out of the lineup SO much. But.....Tyrod throws such a good deep ball it could be bombs away. Hell we threw deep to Hogan many many times without the payoff though- albeit being mugged never drew a flag and dropped too many right in the hands

[Kemp2Warlick]

 

It's certainly a conversation that should/will be had by the coaches when they're compiling the final roster, but if he makes it out of camp and preseason action without getting hurt I don't think it'd be wise to cut him because you think he's going to get hurt at some point in the season. Not on his first contract at least.

 

It's certainly a compelling argument to make in terms of resigning him to a deal or as a UFA next year, and one I'm sure every suitor will have, but because of his contract number, his draft position, and most importantly because of his talent, I don't think you can preemptively cut him this year.

 

Again, if he gets hurt though, all bets are off.

 

 

Goodwin is a much better football player than Graham ever was. This is a silly comparison, like I said it's lazy and easy and inaccurate.

 

Surviving training camp and all the preseason games is all they can go on. If the WR room had more talent, if he were more of a bubble player, then it'd certainly be a more interesting debate. But the guy has proven to be able to beat the press and use his speed as more than a gimmick.

 

He just hasn't been able to stay healthy. If he can stay healthy, he's the 3rd best WR on the team and it's not even close. You don't cut your 3rd best WR just because he might get hurt unless you have someone nipping at his heels on the depth chart. The Bills don't seem to have that guy.

I agree

[Mr. WEO]

 

You must buy straws in bulk to build those men.

 

Since you make fun of sample sizes, why did you list fast WRs who aren't very good at catching the ball, instead of listing fast WRs who are good at catching the ball?

 

Why not compare Goodwin to Antonio Brown?

 

Because Antonio Brown plays games and catches a lot of balls. When Goodwin is healthy and playing in games, he does not catch a lot of balls.

 

Other than that, I can't tell them apart..

 

 

It's certainly a conversation that should/will be had by the coaches when they're compiling the final roster, but if he makes it out of camp and preseason action without getting hurt I don't think it'd be wise to cut him because you think he's going to get hurt at some point in the season. Not on his first contract at least.

 

It's certainly a compelling argument to make in terms of resigning him to a deal or as a UFA next year, and one I'm sure every suitor will have, but because of his contract number, his draft position, and most importantly because of his talent, I don't think you can preemptively cut him this year.

 

Again, if he gets hurt though, all bets are off.

 

 

Goodwin is a much better football player than Graham ever was. This is a silly comparison, like I said it's lazy and easy and inaccurate.

 

Surviving training camp and all the preseason games is all they can go on. If the WR room had more talent, if he were more of a bubble player, then it'd certainly be a more interesting debate. But the guy has proven to be able to beat the press and use his speed as more than a gimmick.

 

He just hasn't been able to stay healthy. If he can stay healthy, he's the 3rd best WR on the team and it's not even close. You don't cut your 3rd best WR just because he might get hurt unless you have someone nipping at his heels on the depth chart. The Bills don't seem to have that guy.

 

But really--look back at 2014. The guy did play. He didn't catch more than 1 ball. How is he open all the time? When has he ever been, without question, the 3rd best WR on this team?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[26CornerBlitz]

@hardijjy716

@salmaiorana what one player has surprised you the most this training camp?

@salmaiorana

Sal Maiorana Retweeted Harley

Goodwin, by far. I had given up on him, thought he had no chance to make team. He’s been very good

[3rdand12]

well, there's our argument. You believe there's an IF. When in actuality there will never be. Teams aren't worried about this guy. Never have been. Never will be.

Glad we cleared it up.

You are definitive and closing doors in haste.

I am about opening them and considering opportunities.

Very good post mrags

Edited August 11, 2016 by 3rdand12

[mannc]

 

 

Goodwin is a much better football player than Graham ever was. This is a silly comparison, like I said it's lazy and easy and inaccurate.

 

Surviving training camp and all the preseason games is all they can go on. If the WR room had more talent, if he were more of a bubble player, then it'd certainly be a more interesting debate. But the guy has proven to be able to beat the press and use his speed as more than a gimmick.

 

He just hasn't been able to stay healthy. If he can stay healthy, he's the 3rd best WR on the team and it's not even close. You don't cut your 3rd best WR just because he might get hurt unless you have someone nipping at his heels on the depth chart. The Bills don't seem to have that guy.

You're absolutely right, but you're also wasting your time. For some reason, there is just an incredible amount of irrational hatred for Goodwin on this board; you would think he played for the Patriots. And anyone who seriously argues that Goodwin when healthy is no better than Graham is not worth arguing with. As I recall, someone else argued that Graham was actually faster than Goodwin despite clear and undisputable evidence to the contrary.

Edited August 11, 2016 by mannc

[3rdand12]

 

Not joking. He's shown, in live game situations, to be able to consistently beat the press. He's not just a track guy playing football, which was your original point and the one I take issue with. He's a football player who's shown all the skills you'd want to see from your burner but one: durability. If he can stay healthy, he's going to be a factor in this offense.

I agree. His only real issue, and its a biggie, is being avalaible.

This is why i like them taking Listenbee late in the draft. Get him a bazillion mental reps and quickly. I DO like the Bills having Goodwin, ON THE FIELD , though.

[Mr. WEO]

You're absolutely right, but you're also wasting your time. For some reason, there is just an incredible amount of irrational hatred for Goodwin on this board; you would think he played for the Patriots. And anyone who seriously argues that Goodwin when healthy is no better than Graham is not worth arguing with. As I recall, someone else argued that Graham was actually faster than Goodwin despite clear and undisputable evidence to the contrary.

 

I don't see anyone "hating" Goodwin. We are discussing whether his past performance warrants a roster spot.

[3rdand12]

 

I have pounded the table about this.

 

Marrone had his " boys". Just look how he built the O line

 

Goodwin had a career season (his only meaningful contribution, in fact) under Marrone!

 

Try again.

Healthy scratch how many games ?

you should try again. Greggy is likely correct.

Ask Kraig Urbik or Pears?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I don't see anyone "hating" Goodwin. We are discussing whether his past performance warrants a roster spot.

 

His past performance has zero impact on this season's 53. He'll either make it or not based upon the merits of his performance in this camp and preseason.

[3rdand12]

 

That is a very good question for Mr Hackett, and IIRC that question was asked - a lot - every single week.

boom