Jason Cole report on Doug Whaley

[Alphadawg7]

 

Say what?

 

Our top 5 WRs were Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Harvin, and Easeley. Harvin was signed exactly for the reasons that fridge cites, a lack of planning and vision on Whaley's part. It's been a perpetual theme since he's been in charge.

 

They couldn't sign a low-priced WR like Hogan, so now we have no depth. Right, got it.

 

Watkins always has injury issues and this season is no exception. But any fool knows that you don't go and trade away next year's 1st-rounder for a WR of all positions. That doesn't even address the 4th thrown in too. Woods started 9 games and played in 14, we were 6-8 in those games, meaning we won the two he didn't play in. Maybe he's just not that good. Harvin also had an extensive injury history. That was known. Then you dig to Easeley, the kind of WR that can be found on waivers any day of the week.

 

Taylor played in 14 games. You make it sound as if he went out in week 4 and stayed out.

 

McCoy was available for 12 games and we were 3-1 in the games he missed.

 

Starting TE was Clay and he wasn't anything of consequence such that it was like losing Gronk. We were 2-1 w/o Clay.

 

Those are pertinent facts.

 

You may want to reformulate your argument.

 

Also, every team loses players to injury, it's an expected part of the game. Whaley apologists talk as if we're the only team affected by injuries.

 

If anything, without our top playmakers we performed better? ... or at least won more games? How can that possibly be? Figure that out, then apply that line of thinking to the argument in generaly.

 

How about strength-of-schedule, or in our case weakness-of-schedule. Does that factor in anywhere in your analysis?

 

If not, it should, and you'll see this season why it should.

 

All of our top 5 WR's were hurt last year, some for parts of the season and some for the whole season. What is confusing to you in regards to that?

 

The most hilarious part of your whole rant back here is that you literally PROVE my very points in your rant. You say McCoy only missed 4 games and then state we went 3-1 in those games...EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY. Trying to refute the job Whaley did, you down play the loss of McCoy and completely ignore that during those 4 games we had guys like Karlos and Guilisee come in and do pretty good jobs making up for the missing McCoy not to mention McCoy played hurt in other games and they did a good job taking some load off of him...Whaley drafted Karlos...Whaley went and found Gillisee off the street when we didn't have any healthy RBs during the season. You are literally making my EXACT point...Whaley found ways to plug wholes so we could still WIN football games when our Starters went down.

 

Baltimore didn't do that. Dallas didn't do that. Buffalo did. We won 8 games despite almost NEVER having our starters on the field at the same time on either side of the ball most the season. Taylor MISSED 2 games, but he also played hurt a large part of the season too.

 

So keep posting...you are only helping prove the exact point that Whaley did a pretty good job filling this team out with depth and then finding more help when injuries ate away at that depth. I mean you keep pointing to how we KEPT winning when our best players were hurt...that doesn't happen if your don't have any depth of find second tier guys who can contribute. Again, CREDIT TO WHALEY. Its like you don't even have a clue to what a GM does and have just decided you don't like him.

[Mr. WEO]

 

To be honest, I replied without even looking at who I was replying too.

 

Carry on!

 

 

No need.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Not only that, going into the draft you have one decent WR that's A, injury prone, and B, currently nursing a serious foot injury. Absolutely nowhere did I read in our list of draft needs a WR.

 

Who in their right mind looked at the rest of the WR roster and decided that WR wasn't even a secondary much less a primary need? Who did that? It should have been at the top of the list.

 

The reason why it wasn't is because we have Roman, a second-rate OC that's stuck in the '90s with his offenses. He hasn't produced a top-10 offense yet as an OC.

 

On top of that, you know that the D isn't going to carry the team, largely because Ryan took a top-5 D and had it play below average, to start. You know that the performance of the team this season is going to come down to offense and largely dependent upon Taylor's development.

 

So you do everything you can to assist Taylor in achieving that, right? Right?

 

WRONG! Not our team. Not Whaley & Ryan. No, they decide that an injury-prone WR that can't be relied upon to stay healthy and then a cast that makes the Browns' WRs look like Jefferson, Joiner, & Winslow in Air Coryell in their heyday is adequate.

 

Naturally Clay's "going to have a bigger role." Yawn! Wake me when that happens.

 

People that are astute see clearly what's going on here. There is absolutely no vision or no master plan, every offseason it's shoot from the hip and react, not be proactive.

 

Manuel, Watkins, and now Shaq, the three players taken with Whaley's 1st-rounders are a bust, unreliable, and a complete unknown on top of possibly being unreliable. That alone should be enough to condemn Whaley. Especially this year's smarter-by-half approach to drafting Shaq. We knew better except we didn't. That should have a price. In Pegula world it won't.

 

You should just stop posting on this matter...seriously. Your assesment of our WR group is comical at best. Our offense, even with this so called terrible group of WR's you describe, did pretty good last year even with all the injuries. Our defense let us down more than our offense, so to say WR was our most pressing need is just absurd. Sammy is already a top 10 WR in this league. Do we have the greatest core of WRs in the NFL...no, but we are no where near the bottom or the grim picture you paint.

 

How many games has Sammy missed in his career in Buffalo? THREE...thats it, and they were all last year. So how is he injury prone? How is he so bad that we needed to draft a new #1 WR? We could get a first round and more if we traded Sammy today without question. Your assessment is ridiculous that I don't even think you would be a good GM in Madden.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Alphadawg7

[Rico]

Bottom line once again, Ralph Wilson was one of the worst owners in this league. All the years and years and years and years of incompetent, losing football can be directly traced to him. The only way to truly turn things around is to purge anything and everything he ever touched from this organization.

 

That starts with Russ Brandon, his right hand man and the current poster child for Bills football failure. It includes anyone on the football side that was either hired by him or promoted by him, namely in this case Doug Whaley. Eliminate all the degrees of separation from Ralph, and begin anew.

 

WAKE UP, PEGS!

[Beerball]

I defended Whaley but those days are gone.. he gambled and it didn't pay off.

 

this season will put him and rex on the street

Damn double d...we shouldn't even let the season play out? We're doomed in your eyes?

[BarleyNY]

Whaley was all in on Rex. His own words confirm this. This has been posted as well.

That means nothing. If he liked the Rex hire, he's just telling the truth. If he hated the Rex hire, then what's he supposed to say? "I think the Pegulas are idiots for hiring Rex and I can't believe I have to work with that tool." How do you think a less than glowing public endorsement of any HC would have played out? I'm not on the Whaley bandwagon by any stretch, but this is a ridiculous criticism. Oh, and for better or worse Whaley and Rex are tied together here. If one goes, the other goes with him - although I don't expect that to happen until after the 2017 season.

[Beerball]

Shaq Lawson is not and will never be Bruce Smith. Stop with this comparison. They play the same position. That's all they have in common.

You are, I think, smart enough to know that no such comparison was made.

That's literally exactly what you said. Bruce Smith is not in that scenario you mentioned, Shaq Lawson is. They aren't even comparable as college prospects. It doesn't matter what you would do if Bruce was in that scanerio, because that has no bearing on what you'd do with a lesser player.

 

It's a bad comparison and a bad argument. I didn't twist anything that you didn't say yourself.

Sorry dude, only one person playing twister in this thread. Have a mirror handy?

[3rdand12]

 

This really puts an exclamation point on my whole unprepared argument.

LOLd

awesome, Fridge !

[3rdand12]

I thought the Bleacher Report was banned here? Another kook thread.

SIMPLE AS THAT. and look what we have here. blood on the streets cars overturned and useless analog TVs being looted.

talk about fanning some embers!

Except... Terry and Kim inherited Whaley but brought in Rex on their own.

most excellent point

[Mr. WEO]

That means nothing. If he liked the Rex hire, he's just telling the truth. If he hated the Rex hire, then what's he supposed to say? "I think the Pegulas are idiots for hiring Rex and I can't believe I have to work with that tool." How do you think a less than glowing public endorsement of any HC would have played out? I'm not on the Whaley bandwagon by any stretch, but this is a ridiculous criticism. Oh, and for better or worse Whaley and Rex are tied together here. If one goes, the other goes with him - although I don't expect that to happen until after the 2017 season.

 

 

You really need to go back and read Whaley's account of the Rex hiring. It's nothing like what you are describing.

 

And what am i criticizing? I'm simply correcting the misconception that Whaley was anything less than on board and pumped about hiring Rex.

[Rico]

 

 

You really need to go back and read Whaley's account of the Rex hiring. It's nothing like what you are describing.

 

And what am i criticizing? I'm simply correcting the misconception that Whaley was anything less than on board and pumped about hiring Rex.

Do you honestly believe anything coming out of OBD? DW was lucky he still had a job, of course he was going to tow the company line.

[3rdand12]

so , in conclusion. After reading every singlepost as I always be sure to do when arriving late.

 

Whaley has grown into his job title. he has maybe one of the best pro scouting teams i have seen for the Bills in forever.

we can take shots at his drafts all day.

But that is hardly his whole responsibility. Folks also do not mention clearly when GMs are trying to please yet another HC. With a another way of think. When the Coaching staff changes over and over and over again, like the Bills have, it might be hard to pin a GM for the teams adversities.

 

So we have had some fluke injuries and and a couple risks in the draft over last 3 years. its the draft. Isolate that in your minds.

 

I too recall Chris Williams and a bunch of other bozos.

But i see some damn fine Pro pickups. This team has greatly improved player wise under Whaley. And he is still a rising GM.

 

keep tossing middle school lunches at each other without thinking you now, have nothing to eat Kids.

 

I am unpleased about Ragland unexpected injury too

Edited August 10, 2016 by 3rdand12

[BarleyNY]

You really need to go back and read Whaley's account of the Rex hiring. It's nothing like what you are describing.

 

And what am i criticizing? I'm simply correcting the misconception that Whaley was anything less than on board and pumped about hiring Rex.

I'm not describing anything and I've read Whaley's account. Again, what would you expect him to say? He was barely sticking around after the Pegulas bought the team. Of course Whaley is going to back with the HC they wanted and he's going to paint a rosy picture. Again, I'm not defending the job he's done. There's plenty to criticize, just not the Rex hire.

[Mr. WEO]

Do you honestly believe anything coming out of OBD? DW was lucky he still had a job, of course he was going to tow the company line.

 

If they dragged Whaley out and propped him up in front of a microphone and had him say "we are very excited to have hired Rex Ryan as the......", I would agree with you.

 

But that's the opposite of what he did.

 

I'm not describing anything and I've read Whaley's account. Again, what would you expect him to say? He was barely sticking around after the Pegulas bought the team. Of course Whaley is going to back with the HC they wanted and he's going to paint a rosy picture. Again, I'm not defending the job he's done. There's plenty to criticize, just not the Rex hire.

 

I'm not convinced you read his account of the hire. But let's say you did. Specifically what comments tipped you off that he was just painting a rose picture? Toeing the company line? Exactly what did he say that convinced you that he might not have been on board with this pick.

 

Here it is:

 

“For me his philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships.

“I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.”

 

“It was funny because at the start of the process Kim and Terry asked me who my favorite was and I said, ‘You can’t go in with any preconceived notions of what you want and what you like. You’ve got to go in with an open mind so you don’t have any biases,’” said Whaley. “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ I said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.”

“The first interview you do more philosophy, scheme, coaching staff and the second interview was more the day-to-day operations of how he runs his program,” said Whaley. “It goes all the way from who sits in first class on team travel to how he’s going to dole out fines, to meetings and scheduling. So if he gets the job we can hit the ground running. I know what to expect from him and help anticipate the things that he’ll need.”

Terry Pegula publicly admitted a lot of those detailed questions bored him in the second interview. He and his wife Kim were more focused on ensuring that the coach they hired would be a person that respected the Buffalo community.“The way we looked at it with where our team is we’re scratching at the door and knocking at the door and we want to kick that door down,” said Whaley. “So we didn’t want a guy who was learning on the job. We wanted a guy who has been there and done that before and not have those missteps of a first-time head coach. It all came together with Rex.”

 

 

What gives it away for you?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[Rico]

so , in conclusion. After reading every singlepost as I always be sure to do when arriving late.

 

Whaley has grown into his job title. he has maybe one of the best pro scouting teams i have seen for the Bills in forever.

we can take shots at his drafts all day.

But that is hardly his whole responsibility. Folks also do not mention clearly when GMs are trying to please yet another HC. With a another way of think. When the Coaching staff changes over and over and over again, like the Bills have, it might be hard to pin a GM for the teams adversities.

 

So we have had some fluke injuries and and a couple risks in the draft over last 3 years. its the draft. Isolate that in your minds.

 

I too recall Chris Williams and a bunch of other bozos.

But i see some damn fine Pro pickups. This team has greatly improved player wise under Whaley. And he is still a rising GM.

 

keep tossing middle school lunches at each other without thinking you now, have nothing to eat Kids.

 

I am unpleased about Ragland unexpected injury too

And who might that be?

Tyrod? Thanks, Rex!

Richie? Thanks, Rex!

Shady? Maybe he shows he's worth all that jack this year, maybe not.

Clay? Maybe he shows he's worth all that jack this year, maybe not.

Corey Graham? Absolutely, thanks Doug!

Everybody else? Not too impressive IMO.

[ndirish1978]

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but who exactly is Jason Cole? Isn't Bleacher Report nothing but fan-created content? I haven't looked at a single thing on that site in years.

[3rdand12]

And who might that be?

Tyrod? Thanks, Rex!

Richie? Thanks, Rex!

Shady? Maybe he shows he's worth all that jack this year, maybe not.

Clay? Maybe he shows he's worth all that jack this year, maybe not.

Corey Graham? Absolutely, thanks Doug!

Everybody else? Not too impressive IMO.

Oh c'mon with that Rico.

 

I am not going to list the guys tonight.

The Bills depth has developed from next to nothing in the Days of My beloved Chris Kelsay as starter at DE.

I really could do that list for you. it is not dramatic at all. but it is pretty decent.

The whole Coach brings players in is great, shows a team effort. Why leverage it against Dougie Fresh ?

Why leverage at all ?

[YoloinOhio]

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but who exactly is Jason Cole? Isn't Bleacher Report nothing but fan-created content? I haven't looked at a single thing on that site in years.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/users/3290243-jason-cole

[BADOLBILZ]

 

All of our top 5 WR's were hurt last year, some for parts of the season and some for the whole season. What is confusing to you in regards to that?

 

The most hilarious part of your whole rant back here is that you literally PROVE my very points in your rant. You say McCoy only missed 4 games and then state we went 3-1 in those games...EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY. Trying to refute the job Whaley did, you down play the loss of McCoy and completely ignore that during those 4 games we had guys like Karlos and Guilisee come in and do pretty good jobs making up for the missing McCoy not to mention McCoy played hurt in other games and they did a good job taking some load off of him...Whaley drafted Karlos...Whaley went and found Gillisee off the street when we didn't have any healthy RBs during the season. You are literally making my EXACT point...Whaley found ways to plug wholes so we could still WIN football games when our Starters went down.

 

Baltimore didn't do that. Dallas didn't do that. Buffalo did. We won 8 games despite almost NEVER having our starters on the field at the same time on either side of the ball most the season. Taylor MISSED 2 games, but he also played hurt a large part of the season too.

 

So keep posting...you are only helping prove the exact point that Whaley did a pretty good job filling this team out with depth and then finding more help when injuries ate away at that depth. I mean you keep pointing to how we KEPT winning when our best players were hurt...that doesn't happen if your don't have any depth of find second tier guys who can contribute. Again, CREDIT TO WHALEY. Its like you don't even have a clue to what a GM does and have just decided you don't like him.

 

 

My biggest issue with Whaley is settling for low ceiling/impact talent early in the draft because he was trying to directly fill holes in the starting lineup with rookies.

 

This has lead to a lot of duds.......which only weakens the roster by creating more holes in the long run.

 

Think about this for a minute........how many players do the Bills draft that aren't either asked to start immediately and sink or swim.......or never develop?

 

There isn't a Bills drafted or UDFA starter on this team that was given any time to develop as a reserve.

[3rdand12]

I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but who exactly is Jason Cole? Isn't Bleacher Report nothing but fan-created content? I haven't looked at a single thing on that site in years.

and we now have the answer to the question.

The whole point was just an exercise in futility. an exorcism of frustration and a bit of excretion