Chilly Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 See above. When they said the filed was OK, it's not their fault when someone subsequently screws up. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because we're going around in circles at this point. I've already addressed this in my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because we're going around in circles at this point. I've already addressed this in my last post. Fair enough. Blame can be assigned if a bad outcome could have been prevented. Even if you really stretch the partnership between the NFL (the venue renter) and the HOF (the venue owner) to be equal, the renter can't be blamed if it could not have prevented actions by the vendor that occurred after they both agreed the filed was ready for play. Just doesn't follow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) It's both. The NFL made the correct decision to not play the game. However, the NFL giving an "all-clear" to a playing surface, then having the playing surface changed and be unusable two hours before kickoff indicates, at a minimum, a failure in partnership between the NFL and the Pro Football Hall of Fame. If I'm running an event, it's the day of the event, and one of my partners/vendors changes something without my knowledge or oversight, I didn't do a good enough job. If I'm running an event, I know about and approve the change, and that happens, I didn't do a good enough job. These things don't happen independently. I think it's fair of the NFL to assume that painting the field is going to be a mundane task unlikely to make the surface unplayable. They don't paint the field days ahead of time and it's not NFL personnel in control of the field. Is it a mistake for the NFL to rely on city/team/stadium personnel to perform their tasks of getting a field ready and not contracting their own employees...perhaps, but that's a rather large change to the way it's been done for a long time and has been successful for the vast majority of it. Overreacting by making such sweeping changes would be irresponsible of the NFL despite the black eye. It's not a failure if your failsafe was triggered. It's a failsafe to prevent the failure from occurring. They had an appropriate process to prevent players from playing the game which could have impacted their health. Edited August 8, 2016 by jeremy2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I think it's fair of the NFL to assume that painting the field is going to be a mundane task unlikely to make the surface unplayable. They don't paint the field days ahead of time and it's not NFL personnel in control of the field. Is it a mistake for the NFL to rely on city/team/stadium personnel to perform their tasks of getting a field ready and not contracting their own employees...perhaps, but that's a rather large change to the way it's been done for a long time and has been successful for the vast majority of it. Overreacting by making such sweeping changes would be irresponsible of the NFL despite the black eye. It's not a failure if your failsafe was triggered. It's a failsafe to prevent the failure from occurring. They had an appropriate process to prevent players from playing the game which could have impacted their health. I would not argue that it's been historically successful at this stadium. There has been a history of field issues and poor playing conditions at that stadium, including the Steelers game last year. Edited August 8, 2016 by Chilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Van anyone describe ow the NFL itself could have prevented the botched logo painting? If I partner with (pay) a hotel to host a reception and we agree on all of the details and I do a walk through and agree everything looks fine and then some "jamoke" screws up the venue performing simple and routine finishing touches, how am I responsible for this outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I would not argue that it's been historically successful at this stadium. There has been a history of field issues and poor playing conditions at that stadium, including the Steelers game last year. Nothing in your link seems to imply this is the same issue or any manner in which the problem with the paint could have been prevented. Not to mention, the article itself backs up the point that the NFL took appropriate action: One player, the kicker, was injured. That means out of roughly 180 players that 1 was injured "due to the field". The NFL has a NFLPA/NFL team that investigates fields for playability. That committee certified the field that replaced the previous one that was reported to have caused the injury. Up until the point that paint was applied and caused a problem by a 3rd party contractor, there were no reported problems with the current field by either the NFL or NFLPA. I still haven't seen the point the NFL screwed up....just a lot of "They should have done SOMETHING" which the NFL did. Sounds a lot like "Won't someone think of the children?!" If I hire someone to paint my house who a history of successfully painting houses and he botches the job, that's not my fault. I hired an appropriate expert to paint my house. If information comes out that the HOF went and picked up some untrained meth heads off the street to replace the existing crew and the NFL didn't have it stipulated in their agreements that they had to use the professionals then, yeah, the NFL screwed up. I have seen nothing that indicates that is the case. Edited August 8, 2016 by jeremy2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 You said that the NFL has been successful doing it this way. They haven't been successful at this stadium, there's a long history of field issues, like the one I linked you. Sorry, just because it's a "3rd party contractor", by no means lets your company off of the hook. I deal with this every single day in my current job with 3rd party partners. If your 3rd party screwed up, it's still ultimately your responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Troy Vincent, VP of Operations for the NFL, sent a memo to all 32 NFL Teams today taking responsibility. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/09/troy-vincent-memo-takes-the-blame-for-hall-of-fame-game-fiasco/ Edited August 9, 2016 by Chilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 You said that the NFL has been successful doing it this way. They haven't been successful at this stadium, there's a long history of field issues, like the one I linked you. Sorry, just because it's a "3rd party contractor", by no means lets your company off of the hook. I deal with this every single day in my current job with 3rd party partners. If your 3rd party screwed up, it's still ultimately your responsibility. Same here and I couldn't agree more. NFL screwed the pooch on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) You said that the NFL has been successful doing it this way. They haven't been successful at this stadium, there's a long history of field issues, like the one I linked you. Sorry, just because it's a "3rd party contractor", by no means lets your company off of the hook. I deal with this every single day in my current job with 3rd party partners. If your 3rd party screwed up, it's still ultimately your responsibility. Same here and I couldn't agree more. NFL screwed the pooch on this one. We are discussing the difference between being responsible and being at fault. Very different. Since the NFL did not cause this outcome, they are not at fault (or to blame). They may be "responsible" (for there being no game) in some contractual sense that you deal with every day, but that's it. Saying the NFL screwed the pooch here makes no sense at all. They are the ones that got screwed by this rinky-dink HOF organization who couldn't properly paint the field for the only meaningful game played there per year. In fact, the NFL should scrap the game for good (it's the jokiest of all the preseason games) or hold it in a real NFL stadium with a real grounds crew. Edited August 9, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 We are discussing the difference between being responsible and being at fault. Very different. Since the NFL did not cause this outcome, they are not at fault (or to blame). They may be "responsible" (for there being no game) in some contractual sense that you deal with every day, but that's it. Saying the NFL screwed the pooch here makes no sense at all. They are the ones that got screwed by this rinky-dink HOF organization who couldn't properly paint the field for the only meaningful game played there per year. In fact, the NFL should scrap the game for good (it's the jokiest of all the preseason games) or hold it in a real NFL stadium with a real grounds crew. The NFL even admitted it had an issue. From the article linked above: "While the HOF field situation underscored the challenges in working with third parties, ultimately I am accountable for ensuring the field is of the highest standard," said Vincent, who added that the league's football operations department "must demand and expect an extra level of detail in adhering to NFL standards ... for non-club fields." It's clear the NFL's controls around field conditions failed and they'll be making tweaks to it going forward to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The NFL even admitted it had an issue. From the article linked above: It's clear the NFL's controls around field conditions failed and they'll be making tweaks to it going forward to address. “While the HOF field situation underscored the challenges in working with third parties, ultimately I am accountable for ensuring the field is of the highest standard,” Vincent said. This is pretty much what I said. The "third party" does not include any NFL staff and the NFL is eating the sh..t sandwich for a PR fiasco. But is it clear from that story that the NFL relied on the locals they always rely on and got screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) “While the HOF field situation underscored the challenges in working with third parties, ultimately I am accountable for ensuring the field is of the highest standard,” Vincent said. This is pretty much what I said. The "third party" does not include any NFL staff and the NFL is eating the sh..t sandwich for a PR fiasco. But is it clear from that story that the NFL relied on the locals they always rely on and got screwed. Correct, and the NFL's policies to oversee those third parties failed, which the NFL addressed in the quote above. It's the NFL's product and ultimately their job to oversee any 3rd party they partner with. Edited August 9, 2016 by Chilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Correct, and the NFL's policies to oversee those third parties failed, which the NFL addressed in the quote above. It's the NFL's product and ultimately their job to oversee any 3rd party they partner with. I've run out of ways to simplify this. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 I've run out of ways to simplify this. You win. It's not about winning. I'm good with agreeing to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 @sn_nfl Class-action lawsuit filed against NFL for cancellation of Hall of Fame Game http://dlvr.it/M1T7hX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 @sn_nfl Class-action lawsuit filed against NFL for cancellation of Hall of Fame Game http://dlvr.it/M1T7hX Not this is funny--like the NFL had to "encourage" all those GB fans to purchase more food and beverages! The want to be compensated for an extra 90 minutes of eating! And 4 million for 22,000 tickets?? $181 per for that schlockfest? What a country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 Not this is funny--like the NFL had to "encourage" all those GB fans to purchase more food and beverages! The want to be compensated for an extra 90 minutes of eating! And 4 million for 22,000 tickets?? $181 per for that schlockfest? What a country! Travel, hotel, and incidental costs are factored into the suit I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2016 Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Travel, hotel, and incidental costs are factored into the suit I'm sure. The 4 million is what the HOF is saying is for ticket refunds. The suit seeks 5 million. Ticket holders aren't entitled to hotel and travel reimbursement when a game is canceled 90 min before kickoff. They should read the back of their tickets. Edited August 12, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 @AroundTheNFL Hall of Fame refund policy approved for canceled game https://t.co/MgxNIm1M2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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