Reggie Ragland to have knee surgery; out for season

[Doc]

It's more nuanced than simply saying Kiko for Shady. KA's rookie contract turned into a 5 year 40M deal for McCoy that helped hamstring them this off-season.

 

I've always thought the best way to describe the team under Whaley in terms of resources was as Bill from NYC said: he's been fast and loose. Why did the team need a RB who demanded a contract extension to this degree? After 6 seasons of wear and tear?

No it didn't. At least not by itself.

[Captain_Quint]

 

As they say, you make your own luck.

 

Everyone, EVERYONE, knew fully about Shaq's shoulder status. But apparently the opinions of Ryan's son at Clemson led the charge and "forced" Whaley to draft him. The Bills always play their hands as smarter-by-half and get screwed, and then scratch whatever little noodles they have to scratch while forum fans make excuses for idiotic and negligent decision making.

 

And btw, now we have a slew of people here talking about how Shaq and Ragland are going to come back gangbusters next season. Well this just in, sitting most of a season, or even half of it, or in Ragland's apparent situation the entire thing, doesn't exactly grease the skids for the following season, it merely adds additional questionmarks to a questionmark that already existed, at least in Shaq's case.

 

Either way, when you make dumb decisions and the risks of those play out, it's hardly bad luck. It's reaping the fruits of stupidity and negligence!

I want to hear more about the 'Jones fracture'.

[John from Riverside]

 

Can you, ... can you see where this is going to go? Frankly, I thought I already had laid out the conclusion after posting numerous facts that you completely failed to address. That's the human nature part of this forum, and others, that I find so intriguing.

 

Where to start here.....probably the first place to start is why do the mods continue to let you do this? Totally against TOS. This is not debate it is attack.

 

Look, I realize that you don't like me or my posts and argue with just about everything that I put out, hardly ever using any counterarguments much less actual facts, usually simply with emotional outbursts and absolutely nothing concrete, relevant, germane, or remotely pertinent to my original points. Your posts are literally, as in dictionary-defined, retarded.

 

There is not really anyone that I dislike on the board....seriously. I may not agree with what you post but as fir not liking you personally? I dont know you.

 

And you cannot give counter arguements to things that are non factual but presented as factual. it is a waste of time frankly.

 

Let's take your post above, it's filled with absolutely nothing but opinionated gibberish.

 

Yes it is message board. People give opinions.

 

The post that it responded to the team's stated methodology in researching Shaq.

 

There was nothing wrong with the way the team researched Shaq.....they thought he fit the system.....they have inside information on the player, the person, etc. They took a calculated gamble with the shoulder because a Edge WAS NEEDED in this draft and there were not many. Heck the edge that was drafted ahead of Shaq Lawson already got hurt.

 

Then I made a comment about how decisions relate to the risks taken.

 

Its all risk...the draft is all risk. Whaley takes gambles instead of playing it safe. You can debate if that is right or not right but consider this....if his gamble DOES pay off you have all pro talent on your team. I cannot fault him for that.

 

Then I commented on the blatant fact that several positions of need weren't even addressed in the draft. Needs that even most here are now claiming as glaring yet for which I was condescended to at the time of the draft by the same posters.

 

As if Edge was not a "need" in this draft.....as if linebackers were not a "need" in this draft. I personally would like to see a OL mixed in there somewhere but they followed their draft board.

 

Then I pointed out the known fact that Ragland isn't strong on his pass-coverage skills to say the least and then implied that his starting cohort at ILB doesn't either, also blatant knowledge.

 

The problem with your "point" is that it does not correlate with the scouting reports on the player....so therefore it is NOT blatant knowedge (he was also showing well in zone pass coverage according to reports and "did not look out of place" according to reports....but lets keep in mind the real reason why he was drafted.....when Rex makes a "he is a 150 tackle guy" then you can piece together what he is looking for there....he is looking for his MLB from the jets David Harris who is ALSO not a good coverage guy running with TE/WR/RBs

 

Then I went on to mention that neither of our safeties is known as primarily as a cover safety, also factual.

 

YOU HAVE NO FACTS....these are strictly your opinions.....and both of our starting safeties are corners turned safeties which means they DO have coverage ability

 

Then I went on to describe the futility of the Bills as a franchise outside of the Polian era, also factual and backed up as such.

 

So no your just speaking overall of the organization.....ok? Each group of HC/GM set a new timeline and should be judged on THEIR performance not over the course of the 15 years of non playoffs.

 

Then I went on to state the obvious, or what should be obvious although I realize you won't get it, that the odds of either Shaq and/or Ragland's chances of success in the NFL are no greater than for any other players drafted in rounds 1 or 2 as they were.

 

Duh

 

Then I stated that Shaq wasn't prolific at Clemson, when he wasn't.

 

Scouts said different

 

And yet you come back with your response above. Is that all that goes through your head when reading something like that? Wait, don't answer that. You know the adage about keeping one's mouth shut. If you do, then expect a response from me.

 

Should I fear your response? I dont

 

Again, your post offered absolutely nothing of value to anyone besides emotional nonsense. You, like the majority here, are nothing but a one-liner machine with an attention span that makes even the most ADD people proud.

 

I find it interesting that you are point the finger at me for this when in fact you are describing yourself totally....you should read what you right. and you get 1 liners because they deserve nothing more then that.

 

Either way, all those facts put together, and more, paint a certain picture of this franchise in its current state. Only in your world is Whaley exempt.

 

I do feel that Whaley has done a good job overall...and I have given several reasons for that....and its my opinion soooooo

 

And no, I didn't post this for your benefit, I posted it for the benefit of others. Yeah yeah, continue on with your mindless nonsense in response to my posts, as BillsVet stated about another post, I'll expand to the majority of posts here, its symbolism (and style) over substance, and you're one of the generals in that Army.

 

I really want you to know that I am hurt that you do not post for my benefit. That truly keeps me up and night. And you totally have me pegged....I am a general on a message board.

 

So keep up the good work partner!

 

[K-9]

 

You'll see Brown and Brown in those situations.

That's the rub, though, "those situations" because if Z Brown is a liability vs. the run, then teams will keep that package on the field to exploit that weakness. I'm mostly fearing the Pats*** when I say that, but still, worse teams like the Bengals and the Texans gave us trouble with sub packages as well. Just a concern I have.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[John from Riverside]

Good luck platooning against hurry up offenses that love to exploit LBs that can't cover and won't give you a chance to substitute. Especially the Pats and their pick you poison approach with two big TEs who can both block and run routes, whether lined up tight or split out.

 

Spikes and Brown were exposed in 2014 and while I think there's room for Brown to improve, I can't say the same about Spikes.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I think our coverage LB gets a lot more work in the new situation.....I still think Spikes will have a role here.

[Ronin]

 

@4TomMartin

Rex on Reggie Ragland: Will have surgery on a torn ACL. Expected to miss season.

 

 

That's odd!

 

Just two days ago anyone suggesting that Ragland's injury appeared to be quite significant was chided that there'd be an F5 and treated like a moron.

 

Funny how that works here.

 

I guess facts and circumstances do actually come into play, oddly enough.

 

 

Can you, ... can you see where this is going to go? Frankly, I thought I already had laid out the conclusion after posting numerous facts that you completely failed to address. That's the human nature part of this forum, and others, that I find so intriguing.

 

Where to start here.....probably the first place to start is why do the mods continue to let you do this? Totally against TOS. This is not debate it is attack.

 

Look, I realize that you don't like me or my posts and argue with just about everything that I put out, hardly ever using any counterarguments much less actual facts, usually simply with emotional outbursts and absolutely nothing concrete, relevant, germane, or remotely pertinent to my original points. Your posts are literally, as in dictionary-defined, retarded.

 

There is not really anyone that I dislike on the board....seriously. I may not agree with what you post but as fir not liking you personally? I dont know you.

 

And you cannot give counter arguements to things that are non factual but presented as factual. it is a waste of time frankly.

 

Let's take your post above, it's filled with absolutely nothing but opinionated gibberish.

 

Yes it is message board. People give opinions.

 

The post that it responded to the team's stated methodology in researching Shaq.

 

There was nothing wrong with the way the team researched Shaq.....they thought he fit the system.....they have inside information on the player, the person, etc. They took a calculated gamble with the shoulder because a Edge WAS NEEDED in this draft and there were not many. Heck the edge that was drafted ahead of Shaq Lawson already got hurt.

 

Then I made a comment about how decisions relate to the risks taken.

 

Its all risk...the draft is all risk. Whaley takes gambles instead of playing it safe. You can debate if that is right or not right but consider this....if his gamble DOES pay off you have all pro talent on your team. I cannot fault him for that.

 

Then I commented on the blatant fact that several positions of need weren't even addressed in the draft. Needs that even most here are now claiming as glaring yet for which I was condescended to at the time of the draft by the same posters.

 

As if Edge was not a "need" in this draft.....as if linebackers were not a "need" in this draft. I personally would like to see a OL mixed in there somewhere but they followed their draft board.

 

Then I pointed out the known fact that Ragland isn't strong on his pass-coverage skills to say the least and then implied that his starting cohort at ILB doesn't either, also blatant knowledge.

 

The problem with your "point" is that it does not correlate with the scouting reports on the player....so therefore it is NOT blatant knowedge (he was also showing well in zone pass coverage according to reports and "did not look out of place" according to reports....but lets keep in mind the real reason why he was drafted.....when Rex makes a "he is a 150 tackle guy" then you can piece together what he is looking for there....he is looking for his MLB from the jets David Harris who is ALSO not a good coverage guy running with TE/WR/RBs

 

Then I went on to mention that neither of our safeties is known as primarily as a cover safety, also factual.

 

YOU HAVE NO FACTS....these are strictly your opinions.....and both of our starting safeties are corners turned safeties which means they DO have coverage ability

 

Then I went on to describe the futility of the Bills as a franchise outside of the Polian era, also factual and backed up as such.

 

So no your just speaking overall of the organization.....ok? Each group of HC/GM set a new timeline and should be judged on THEIR performance not over the course of the 15 years of non playoffs.

 

Then I went on to state the obvious, or what should be obvious although I realize you won't get it, that the odds of either Shaq and/or Ragland's chances of success in the NFL are no greater than for any other players drafted in rounds 1 or 2 as they were.

 

Duh

 

Then I stated that Shaq wasn't prolific at Clemson, when he wasn't.

 

Scouts said different

 

And yet you come back with your response above. Is that all that goes through your head when reading something like that? Wait, don't answer that. You know the adage about keeping one's mouth shut. If you do, then expect a response from me.

 

Should I fear your response? I dont

 

Again, your post offered absolutely nothing of value to anyone besides emotional nonsense. You, like the majority here, are nothing but a one-liner machine with an attention span that makes even the most ADD people proud.

 

I find it interesting that you are point the finger at me for this when in fact you are describing yourself totally....you should read what you right. and you get 1 liners because they deserve nothing more then that.

 

Either way, all those facts put together, and more, paint a certain picture of this franchise in its current state. Only in your world is Whaley exempt.

 

I do feel that Whaley has done a good job overall...and I have given several reasons for that....and its my opinion soooooo

 

And no, I didn't post this for your benefit, I posted it for the benefit of others. Yeah yeah, continue on with your mindless nonsense in response to my posts, as BillsVet stated about another post, I'll expand to the majority of posts here, its symbolism (and style) over substance, and you're one of the generals in that Army.

 

I really want you to know that I am hurt that you do not post for my benefit. That truly keeps me up and night. And you totally have me pegged....I am a general on a message board.

 

So keep up the good work partner!

 

 

 

 

LMAO

 

The time you expend on pure drivel and nonsense is flabbergasting. There's football discussion and there's crap, you post primarily the latter. Opinionated nonsense.

Edited August 10, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[thebandit27]

That's the rub, though, "those situations" because if Z Brown is a liability vs. the run, then teams will keep that package on the field to exploit that weakness. I'm mostly fearing the Pats*** when I say that, but still, worse teams like the Bengals and the Texans gave us trouble with sub packages as well. Just a concern I have.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Probably have to hope that you can get through the first NE game with big nickel and disguising back 7 assignments against Janine Garrafalo, and hope that Shaq is back in time for the 2nd game so that you can use Manny at ILB.

[John from Riverside]

 

That's odd!

 

Just two days ago anyone suggesting that Ragland's injury appeared to be quite significant was chided that there'd be an F5 and treated like a moron.

 

Funny how that works here.

 

I guess facts and circumstances do actually come into play, oddly enough.

 

 

LMAO

 

The time you expend on pure drivel and nonsense is flabbergasting. There's football discussion and there's crap, you post primarily the latter. Opinionated nonsense.

Well I am just trying to answer your post......I know there is a lot of drivel there

[BuffaloBaumer]

Silver lining....if Rex is still a good coach, he gets this defense to where it needs to be with or without Ragland.

[John from Riverside]

Silver lining....if Rex is still a good coach, he gets this defense to where it needs to be with or without Ragland.

I am not giving Rex any excuse here.....there is still a lot of talent on this team and Whaley did a good job immediately filling need.

[thebandit27]

 

That's odd!

 

Just two days ago anyone suggesting that Ragland's injury appeared to be quite significant was chided that there'd be an F5 and treated like a moron.

 

Funny how that works here.

 

I guess facts and circumstances do actually come into play, oddly enough.

 

 

 

LMAO

 

The time you expend on pure drivel and nonsense is flabbergasting. There's football discussion and there's crap, you post primarily the latter. Opinionated nonsense.

I'll add a fact that I think you're downplaying when saying Shaq wasn't prolific at Clemson:

 

He led the FBS in tackles for a loss with 24.5 as a senior--that's absolutely prolific.

 

Now, if you want to say that he only had one prolific season, well, different story.

 

And you're straw-manning again with the Ragland stuff--all I saw were some folks saying that it wasn't a given he'd miss the season based on what was reported, which is true.

Edited August 10, 2016 by thebandit27

[K-9]

I think our coverage LB gets a lot more work in the new situation.....I still think Spikes will have a role here.

No doubt Spikes has a role in short yardage "heavy" defenses, but that's a very limited role. I can see him stuffing first and second down for no gain or TFLs, and then getting torched on third and long because we can't get him off the field. I'm hoping for the best of course, but it is a concern for me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ronin]

Well I am just trying to answer your post......I know there is a lot of drivel there

 

LMAO

 

Oh, you answer them. Unfortunately, just like this post, there's never any substance. And I say that almost literally, you rarely post anything besides "Captain Obvious" stuff that's substantial.

 

So far in all of your responses to me you've said not one dam thing substantial.

 

You came close by insisting something along the lines that all the scout and draft experts had Ragland as an above average pass defender. When I asked you for the credible links there you've come back with nothing.

 

I mean seriously, did you just pull that one out from between your cheeks, or did you have one or two in mind? I haven't seen any and his own college coach's assessment even addresses the same. You haven't produced one, all you've done is pulled a Joe Peschi in Cousin Vinny, "everything that guy just said is BS."

 

Nice! And you can't see any issues. LOL Again, that's what makes this place so amusing.

 

But somehow you know better than everyone else on the planet. You aren't really Doug Whaley by chance, are you?

 

Anyway, unlike you I actually have a plateful of work here, so sorry if I can't humor your lack of substance any longer, but work's gotta get done.

[K-9]

Probably have to hope that you can get through the first NE game with big nickel and disguising back 7 assignments against Janine Garrafalo, and hope that Shaq is back in time for the 2nd game so that you can use Manny at ILB.

If there is one thing I'm NEVER short on, it's hope. But there were some really bad moments for Spikes in 2014. Moments that tended to get lost in the glint of all the sacks we made. That defense was good in most areas, great in others, but it was never what I consider a dominant defense. But I digress.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I'll add a fact that I think you're downplaying when saying Shaq wasn't prolific at Clemson:

 

He led the FBS in tackles for a loss with 24.5 as a senior--that's absolutely prolific.

 

Now, if you want to say that he only had one prolific season, well, different story.

 

And you're straw-manning again with the Ragland stuff--all I saw were some folks saying that it wasn't a given he'd miss the season based on what was reported, which is true.

All I needed to know about Lawson's potential was the game he had vs. the first OLman drafted this year. Ronnie Stanley needed double team help for much of the game. Think about that. The top OT prospect in college routinely dominates every DLman he faces and seldom, if ever, needs help with an assignment. Lawson handed him his ass that day.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[26CornerBlitz]

@ESPNStatsInfo

ESPN Stats & Info Retweeted Adam Schefter

Most Yards/Rush Allowed Between Tackles in 2015 Chargers 4.98 Giants 4.66 Saints 4.65 Bills 4.62

[ddaryl]

seasons over before it began..

 

I have ot admit this year I have not followed the bIlls like i used to..

[ndirish1978]

Well this kind of tanks any preseason enthusiasm I had, stinks.

[Ronin]

I'll add a fact that I think you're downplaying when saying Shaq wasn't prolific at Clemson:

 

He led the FBS in tackles for a loss with 24.5 as a senior--that's absolutely prolific.

 

Now, if you want to say that he only had one prolific season, well, different story.

 

I don't think so. As a DE if he were prolific he'd have been a guaranteed top-10 selection.

 

I'll throw in some statements from three high-profile draft sites, nfl.com, cbssports, and PFF.

 

 

Bottom Line

Productive backup for two years before putting together an All­-American season in his first year as a full- time starter. Lawson is built like a full­-grown man and combines his instincts, toughness and power to fill up a stat sheet and set an early tone. Lawson's frame and game are easily translatable to the NFL, but his average athleticism and pass rush skills will likely have teams viewing him as a 3­-4 edge setter or a 4-­3 base end. Lawson may also have value as 3­-4 defensive tackle in an upfield scheme.

 

 

 

Biggest concern:

• Lacks first step of a pure pass rusher

• Little ability to counter inside outside of a spin move

• Played on a stacked Clemson line that pushed a handful of cleanup sacks his way

 

 

Bottom line:

The junior has prodigious strength that should only improve in an NFL weight room. His discipline against the run will translate well to the NFL, but his skillset doesn’t profile to a feared third-down pass rusher.

 

 

CBS Sports is down, but you wont' find anything there either.

 

Do those sound "prolific" to you? They don't to me.

 

As with Alabama, which is whey few of their drafted LBs ever live up to expectation, the talent levels at Clemson too are so overmatched with their opponents in college on the team level that the individuals always look better than they are. A good GM would compensate for that. Many of them do. Ours does not, in fact, ours leans the other way.

 

Also, all that everyone's been screaming about since last season is our lack of sacks, well this surely doesn't fit that bill.

Edited August 10, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[bobobonators]

Well this kind of tanks any preseason enthusiasm I had, stinks.

Dont lose enthusiasm. The success of this team will still depend on the following elements:

 

1. Continued development of Tyrod.

2. Health of Sammy and Shady.

3. Improving defensive execution.

[thurst44]

Good luck platooning against hurry up offenses that love to exploit LBs that can't cover and won't give you a chance to substitute. Especially the Pats and their pick you poison approach with two big TEs who can both block and run routes, whether lined up tight or split out.

 

Spikes and Brown were exposed in 2014 and while I think there's room for Brown to improve, I can't say the same about Spikes.

 

GO BILLS!!!

How were Spikes and Brown exposed in 2014? I went game by game, and no tight end topped 100 yards, and only two running backs got more than 30 yds through the air (Forte destroyed them in the opener and Foster got 55 - i may have missed someone who got between 30-50). Overall the pass defense was 3rd in yardage and 1st in TDs allowed. I also think Manny Lawson had a lot to do with those numbers as he had a rep for being able to cover the tight end.

 

Although, I will cop to the fact it's embarrassing Jim Dray got 44 yards against them .