White Linen Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 If you want my opinion on a matter, just ask me flat out. The rest of it is just my coping mechanisms. Stop trying to understand me. It'll be good for your health. I stopped doing it years ago. Now that's some good advice and I'm gonna take it. Maybe I can help you. Losing Ragland sucks - no doubt - however it's not like we lost Dareus. Rookies can contribute and even have very nice years - but we back filled the injury right away with veteran help. It's not a season lost type injury.
John from Riverside Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Coming out of college there was disagreement about whether Ragland would be a 2 or 3 down LB in the NFL. I am still taking a wait-and-see approach to that, but I dug further into it recently. A lot could have to do with the defense he'd be playing in. He doesn't seem cut out to play much man and you certainly don't want to see him dragging a TE down the seam. He is a better fit in defenses where he'd be playing short zones. That essentially how you want to adjust for a player who's not strong in coverage. So now the defense is going to platoon the position with a run guy and a pass guy. Lots of teams do that. It's not optimal, but it could be worse. I feel for Ragland, but I wasn't sold on him as a 3 down LB yet anyway. Without him we will likely be worse off in obvious running downs, but even with him healthy we might be in the same or a better spot in pass defense. I dont see how we will be worse off on obvious run downs Spikes dominates in that area....and its not like we are hoping that he can do it coming out of college.....we have actually watched him do it 2 years ago What I need to see now is just how they platoon a very good coverage LB and a very good run stop LB together Edited August 10, 2016 by John from Hemet
hondo in seattle Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 It's a missed year of experience.....they'll be rookies again next year Yeah, that does suck. But, to me, the fate of the 2016 season lies on the shoulders of Rex more than anyone else - certainly more on his shoulders than on the shoulders of draft picks. If Rex makes the appropriate adjustments, this D will be good. The second most important guy is TT. If he steps up the way we all hope he will, this O will be good.
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 That's why Whaley is a goner. I think that point is a bit overstated honestly. Break it down pick-by-pick: 2013 1st - EJ - bust 2013 2nd - Woods - decent (I won't go as far as bona fide #2 WR, but he looked the part in 2013/2014) 2013 2nd - Kiko - in the ROTY conversation in 2013, injured in 2014, traded for Shady-solid 2014 1st - Sammy - solid (at worst) 2014 2nd - Kouandjio - bust (one that many of us saw coming) 2015 1st - n/a 2015 2nd - Darby - solid (at least as of year 1) 2016 1st - Shaq - TBD (while the injury and surgery is a setback, grading a pick is far more about long-term output, so I'll say incomplete) 2016 2nd - Reggie - TBD (I wasn't a huge fan of the pick, but again, it's really hard to fault the GM for a non-contact injury, and there's no point in placing a grade on a guy that won't play a down due to unforeseen injury) It's certainly not a debacle, though there are certain picks (Kouandjio, Shaq, Reggie) that could be questioned IMO. Others, like EJ, Sammy, & Darby, really shouldn't be questioned at this point. Yes, EJ busted, but they needed to take a shot at a QB at that point. Either way, I definitely think both the coach and GM are fighting for their jobs at this point (as well they should be).
26CornerBlitz Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 I think that point is a bit overstated honestly. Break it down pick-by-pick: 2013 1st - EJ - bust 2013 2nd - Woods - decent (I won't go as far as bona fide #2 WR, but he looked the part in 2013/2014) 2013 2nd - Kiko - in the ROTY conversation in 2013, injured in 2014, traded for Shady-solid 2014 1st - Sammy - solid (at worst) 2014 2nd - Kouandjio - bust (one that many of us saw coming) 2015 1st - n/a 2015 2nd - Darby - solid (at least as of year 1) 2016 1st - Shaq - TBD (while the injury and surgery is a setback, grading a pick is far more about long-term output, so I'll say incomplete) 2016 2nd - Reggie - TBD (I wasn't a huge fan of the pick, but again, it's really hard to fault the GM for a non-contact injury, and there's no point in placing a grade on a guy that won't play a down due to unforeseen injury) It's certainly not a debacle, though there are certain picks (Kouandjio, Shaq, Reggie) that could be questioned IMO. Others, like EJ, Sammy, & Darby, really shouldn't be questioned at this point. Yes, EJ busted, but they needed to take a shot at a QB at that point. Either way, I definitely think both the coach and GM are fighting for their jobs at this point (as well they should be). Buddy Nix says "Hello!"
FireChan Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Buddy Nix says "Hello!" We all know that Whaley was calling the shots in 2013. It's time to stop pretending.
Beef Jerky Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Me too. He seemed like a perfect fit. If we are in 3rd and short I'll be happy that we have Spikes back. That one LB is on permanent coverage duty...actually I like that. We shouldn't be in 3rd and short to begin with.
John from Riverside Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 That's why Whaley is a goner. I am willing to bet money that Whaley isnt going anywhere They are not going to blame injuries on the GM
dogman Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Over-paid to get this guy. Linebackers are one of the positions you can draft without using a high pick. Especially inside linebackers. Also most replaceable position on defense evidenced by the lowest average salary of any defensive position. A risk to pay that price to move up to get him. Now it blows up. Shaq Lawson pick proven dubious at best. The Bills consistently act as if they are smarter than everybody else. The Bills are not smarter than anybody else. Time to follow consensus opinions of the draft.
26CornerBlitz Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Over-paid to get this guy. Linebackers are one of the positions you can draft without using a high pick. Especially inside linebackers. Also most replaceable position on defense evidenced by the lowest average salary of any defensive position. A risk to pay that price to move up to get him. Now it blows up. Shaq Lawson pick proven dubious at best. The Bills consistently act as if they are smarter than everybody else. The Bills are not smarter than anybody else. Time to follow consensus opinions of the draft. It's hilarious that you come to this conclusion before the guy has played one down in his NFL career. Very shortsighted POV.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 That's why Whaley is a goner. Wishful thinking on your part.
QCity Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Bills Daily Retweeted Jerry Sullivan @TBNSully 3m3 minutes ago Blills fans have an entire season to overestimate how much Ragland would have meant to the defense. Pretty harsh, but he's got a point. A rookie LB wasn't going to make or break the season.
Doc Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 He's assuming Ragland wouldn't have been an impact player. Which is a shot at the Bills for taking him.
John from Riverside Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Over-paid to get this guy. Linebackers are one of the positions you can draft without using a high pick. Especially inside linebackers. Also most replaceable position on defense evidenced by the lowest average salary of any defensive position. A risk to pay that price to move up to get him. Now it blows up. Shaq Lawson pick proven dubious at best. The Bills consistently act as if they are smarter than everybody else. The Bills are not smarter than anybody else. Time to follow consensus opinions of the draft. in your opinion
Ronin Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 in your opinion What about not in anyone's opinion, but pretty much known fact, that Ragland has well below average skills in pass defense? Couple that with the fact that the same was true of Brown. How about giving us your expert opinion on how drafting Ragland in a passing league showed astuteness, other than the age-old excuse that he "coulda been a first rounder."
BillsVet Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Kiko turned into Shady, so that's 4. Injuries to two picks. EJ was worth a gamble, particularly since they traded down. The only "bad" pick at this point was KuJo. Unreasonable perspective? It's more nuanced than simply saying Kiko for Shady. KA's rookie contract turned into a 5 year 40M deal for McCoy that helped hamstring them this off-season. I've always thought the best way to describe the team under Whaley in terms of resources was as Bill from NYC said: he's been fast and loose. Why did the team need a RB who demanded a contract extension to this degree? After 6 seasons of wear and tear?
John from Riverside Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 What about not in anyone's opinion, but pretty much known fact, that Ragland has well below average skills in pass defense? Couple that with the fact that the same was true of Brown. How about giving us your expert opinion on how drafting Ragland in a passing league showed astuteness, other than the age-old excuse that he "coulda been a first rounder." Show me where it is a fact that Ragland has below average pass skills when there are so many reports to the contrary? and I dont have an expert opinion.....Rex felt that Ragland was a "150 tackle guy".....that sounds pretty good to me?
Beef Jerky Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Pretty harsh, but he's got a point. A rookie LB wasn't going to make or break the season. Him fitting into this defense is.
FireChan Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Show me where it is a fact that Ragland has below average pass skills when there are so many reports to the contrary? and I dont have an expert opinion.....Rex felt that Ragland was a "150 tackle guy".....that sounds pretty good to me? And yet, losing him was no big deal....
DC Tom Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 I'd say this team is snakebit...but fact is, you recover more quickly from snake bites.
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