Don't expect Rex or Whaley to be fired in the offseason

[SRQ_BillsFan]

Without a doubt the talent on the team is better than most of the last 16 years. Last season it may have been a bit better, at least going in.

 

While we all think Rex fails if we do not make the playoffs, I think most of the respected media around the NFL does not have us as a consensus playoff team.

 

We can argue that as fans we know the team better and I would agree, but they seem to be right more than wrong when they look at the NFL and the other teams.

 

I personally think this team should and will make the playoffs. I agree with most, what to do with Rex should be based on what we do as a team, and what happened to get us there. I liked the Rex hire, but was disappointed last year. I am hoping and expect he will make things better this year. However I would not be surprised either way. However unless we fall apart, I may be in the same place going into next year.

Edited July 31, 2016 by SRQ_BillsFan

[thebandit27]

I agree. This is a major part of what is wrong with the Bills. Ours are sub-par and I am being kind.

 

Or, do you think it is out players that make this such a bad team?

I guess I need to understand how Whaley is sub-par, since by your own admission they now have a guy that you think is a franchise QB?

 

When compared to the rest of the league, he's been average, though I'd say slightly above that given how the 2015 draft looks.

My take is the new Buffalo Bills owners looked at what's involved in running and operating a successful NFL team and must have concluded that it was in their best interest to keep the FO intact until they could get a handle on what it takes to run a franchise. Hence the reason not much was changed and since the team was profitable before they bought it they listened to the man in charge and that was Russ Brandon.

 

There is no question in my view that Brandon swayed the new owners into thinking that they had the football acumen to listen to the head coaching candidates and then make the proper selection themselves. What was it that Brandon told them, you will know who to hire once you listen to the right guy. This and obviously Brandon pushing them to hire Ryan for various reasons Russ probably looked at all the high draft pick talent on the Bills defense with the 100 million dollar pass rusher in Mario and thought here is Mike Pettine's tutor and with Ryan taking his new Jets team the AFC championship 2x, who would be better.

 

This is the very same idea that plagues so many Bills fans in thinking we all should have expected the 2015 Buffalo Bills to morph into 2009 NY Jets and easily get into the playoffs with the #1 defense in the league. After all, Rex Ryan stated that he had never had this much talent on a defense before. Even this year Bills fans keep bringing up that 2009 & 2010 Jets season and keep thinking the Bills will be in the Super bowl soon.

 

 

With the Sabres I think the thought process was to have the team tank for a few years in order to build a team with some solid young talent and they did just that. Recently they hired a top head coach who should have them contending very soon.

Just FYI--you don't have to believe this if you choose not to, but what you're claiming went down with regard to Russ isn't what happened.

 

I know you like to cite this "don't let him leave the room" stuff. The fact that the president encouraged the owners to move quickly when they identified their guy is being overblown.

Edited July 31, 2016 by thebandit27

[3rdand12]

One of our thoughtful Brothers started a poll. FA and then Rookie who will make the most impact this year.

 

As i read the list of players scored in FA i was quite surprised at how many names i felt truly will make an impact.

Draft is a crapshoot mostly.

Whaley's Pro scouts are quite good IMO. I can point to at least 7 possible/probable upgrades to team.

That feature of Whaley has always impressed me.

It started with Jerry Hughes.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

One of our thoughtful Brothers started a poll. FA and then Rookie who will make the most impact this year.

 

As i read the list of players scored in FA i was quite surprised at how many names i felt truly will make an impact.

Draft is a crapshoot mostly.

Whaley's Pro scouts are quite good IMO. I can point to at least 7 possible/probable upgrades to team.

That feature of Whaley has always impressed me.

It started with Jerry Hughes.

Also while he was Director of Pro Personnel under Nix he found starters like Kraig Urbik and Scott Chandler that nobody else wanted.

[Nihilarian]

Just FYI--you don't have to believe this if you choose not to, but what you're claiming went down with regard to Russ isn't what happened.

 

I know you like to cite this "don't let him leave the room" stuff. The fact that the president encouraged the owners to move quickly when they identified their guy is being overblown.

Please explain to me how you can possibly know any different than what was reported by ESPN?

 

"It was almost a year ago, in early January, when the Buffalo Bills called Rex Ryan back for a second interview for their head-coaching vacancy. Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building." http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/22828/playoff-promise-among-rex-ryan-statements-that-will-likely-prove-false

 

 

If it wasn't Russ Brandon who manipulated these new owners into thinking that they had the necessary football acumen to know who to hire as the team's next head coach...then who did? Do you actually have inside the org knowledge of what transpired?

[thebandit27]

Please explain to me how you can possibly know any different than what was reported by ESPN?

 

"It was almost a year ago, in early January, when the Buffalo Bills called Rex Ryan back for a second interview for their head-coaching vacancy. Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building." http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/22828/playoff-promise-among-rex-ryan-statements-that-will-likely-prove-false

 

 

If it wasn't Russ Brandon who manipulated these new owners into thinking that they had the necessary football acumen to know who to hire as the team's next head coach...then who did? Do you actually have inside the org knowledge of what transpired?

I personally don't, no. I have a very close friend that does.

 

Additionally, there are folks on this board that have direct contact with the beef over at OBD, and at least one of them has corroborated what my friend told me.

 

And you're reaching too far if you think anyone manipulated the Pegulas. They liked Rex, and Russ advised them that if they (the collective they) thought he was their man, then they shouldn't let him leave.

 

You're hanging too much on this quote.

 

For the record, as I understand it, if Whaley was dead set against Rex, he could've plead his case.

 

He wasn't, and he didn't.

 

He did make it clear that Hue Jackson was his 1st choice, but make no mistake: Whaley liked Rex (and still does for that matter).

Edited July 31, 2016 by thebandit27

[FireChan]

I personally don't, no. I have a very close friend that does.

 

Additionally, there are folks on this board that have direct contact with the beef over at OBD, and at least one of them has corroborated what my friend told me.

 

And you're reaching too far if you think anyone manipulated the Pegulas. They liked Rex, and Russ advised them that if they (the collective they) thought he was their man, then they shouldn't let him leave.

 

You're hanging too much on this quote.

 

For the record, as I understand it, if Whaley was dead set against Rex, he could've plead his case.

 

He wasn't, and he didn't.

 

He did make it clear that Hue Jackson was his 1st choice, but make no mistake: Whaley liked Rex (and still does for that matter).

Fireable offense.

[thebandit27]

Fireable offense.

Hey, I was no fan of the hire myself.

 

Of course, I didn't want Hue Jackson either

[Nihilarian]

I personally don't, no. I have a very close friend that does.

 

Additionally, there are folks on this board that have direct contact with the beef over at OBD, and at least one of them has corroborated what my friend told me.

 

And you're reaching too far if you think anyone manipulated the Pegulas. They liked Rex, and Russ advised them that if they (the collective they) thought he was their man, then they shouldn't let him leave.

 

You're hanging too much on this quote.

 

For the record, as I understand it, if Whaley was dead set against Rex, he could've plead his case.

 

He wasn't, and he didn't.

 

He did make it clear that Hue Jackson was his 1st choice, but make no mistake: Whaley liked Rex (and still does for that matter).

What I think escapes you with your close ties to the people at OBD is the very fact that for 44+ years (not including the AFL years) this franchise has had one of the most meddling owners in the league. A man who named himself team president and hired and fired most of the top people in the org. This has only worked well in two particular instances throughout all that time and once was when he hired Chuck Knox out of desperation and the other when he promoted Bill Polian to GM. Clearly, having a nonfootball person at the top of the org chart hasn't resulted in winning a super bowl after all those years.

 

Now, we Bills fans have this same crap starting all over again so Russ Brandon can keep his fingers in the proverbial football operations side of the cookie jar. Brandon has used his considerable influence in persuading these new owners to make the choice of hiring the head coach themselves rather the allowing the GM to do it. You say he isn't involved in any football operations from your sources and yet a known source that posts here at TBD and made mention that he is and has been heavily involved and not in just influencing the choice for the head coach!

 

"Leroi Posted 26 October 2015 - 08:12 PM

Russ has a big part in scouting and the draft process. He is definetly involved.

 

The guy is a sports genius, we are lucky to have him as the president of Buffalo sports.

 

Remember he was our GM not that long ago.

 

 

Imo "

If it wasn't Russ Brandon, then who was it who prompted these new owners to make the head coach hire themselves?

The choice for the new head coach should have been Doug Whaley's and not the owners. This franchise needs a man at the top of the football side of operations who is an actual NFL experienced football man who can be held accountable. A team president of football operations so there is no longer any questions as to who to blame for more losing or given the credit should the team win a super bowl.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Nihilarian

[3rdand12]

Also while he was Director of Pro Personnel under Nix he found starters like Kraig Urbik and Scott Chandler that nobody else wanted.

Well done Aaron.

Chandler came to Buffalo and set TE records. And if Maroon had not had some grudge against Kraig maybe that season would have played out a bit better, he was very serviceable at that point and did well under Gailey.

There are more of course. But methinks his staff is finely tuned by now.

 

What I think escapes you with your close ties to the people at OBD is the very fact that for 44+ years (not including the AFL years) this franchise has had one of the most meddling owners in the league. A man who named himself team president and hired and fired most of the top people in the org. This has only worked well in two particular instances throughout all that time and once was when he hired Chuck Knox out of desperation and the other when he promoted Bill Polian to GM. Clearly, having a nonfootball person at the top of the org chart hasn't resulted in winning a super bowl after all those years.

 

Now, we Bills fans have this same crap starting all over again so Russ Brandon can keep his fingers in the proverbial football operations side of the cookie jar. Brandon has used his considerable influence in persuading these new owners to make the choice of hiring the head coach themselves rather the allowing the GM to do it. You say he isn't involved in any football operations from your sources and yet a known source that posts here at TBD and made mention that he is and has been heavily involved and not in just influencing the choice for the head coach!

 

"Leroi Posted 26 October 2015 - 08:12 PM

Russ has a big part in scouting and the draft process. He is definetly involved.

 

The guy is a sports genius, we are lucky to have him as the president of Buffalo sports.

 

Remember he was our GM not that long ago.

 

 

Imo "

If it wasn't Russ Brandon, then who was it who prompted these new owners to make the head coach hire themselves?

The choice for the new head coach should have been Doug Whaley's and not the owners. This franchise needs a man at the top of the football side of operations who is an actual NFL experienced football man who can be held accountable. A team president of football operations so there is no longer any questions as to who to blame for more losing or given the credit should the team win a super bowl.

 

well they Bills did set some records in ticket sales last year . did they not ?

[jahnyc]

I think the Pegulas may want continuity, but if the team ends up with an under .500 record, they decide to do something. What that something is, who knows. Could be Whaley and/or Ryan getting fired, or maybe the hiring of a football czar (finally). The possibility of near term firings likely will be foreclosed if the Bills make the playoffs.

Edited August 1, 2016 by jahnyc

[thebandit27]

What I think escapes you with your close ties to the people at OBD is the very fact that for 44+ years (not including the AFL years) this franchise has had one of the most meddling owners in the league. A man who named himself team president and hired and fired most of the top people in the org. This has only worked well in two particular instances throughout all that time and once was when he hired Chuck Knox out of desperation and the other when he promoted Bill Polian to GM. Clearly, having a nonfootball person at the top of the org chart hasn't resulted in winning a super bowl after all those years.

 

Now, we Bills fans have this same crap starting all over again so Russ Brandon can keep his fingers in the proverbial football operations side of the cookie jar. Brandon has used his considerable influence in persuading these new owners to make the choice of hiring the head coach themselves rather the allowing the GM to do it. You say he isn't involved in any football operations from your sources and yet a known source that posts here at TBD and made mention that he is and has been heavily involved and not in just influencing the choice for the head coach!

 

"Leroi Posted 26 October 2015 - 08:12 PM

Russ has a big part in scouting and the draft process. He is definetly involved.

 

The guy is a sports genius, we are lucky to have him as the president of Buffalo sports.

 

Remember he was our GM not that long ago.

 

 

Imo "

 

If it wasn't Russ Brandon, then who was it who prompted these new owners to make the head coach hire themselves?

The choice for the new head coach should have been Doug Whaley's and not the owners. This franchise needs a man at the top of the football side of operations who is an actual NFL experienced football man who can be held accountable. A team president of football operations so there is no longer any questions as to who to blame for more losing or given the credit should the team win a super bowl.

Leroi had had some things dead right.

 

He's also had some things dead wrong (like who our 3rd rd pick was going to be there year we took Darby and that Cardale Jones would compete for the #2 job this year, and that EJ would be cut just to name a few). That's not to pick on him--it's only to say that not all info that anyone has is gospel.

 

What I'm telling you is that the Pegulas don't need to be swayed by Russ or anyone else. If they feel strongly about something, they'll move on it.

 

Now, my opinion is that I agree that Whaley should've had autonomy in picking the coach.

 

What I can't do is attribute the Pegulas' decision to go with Rex to some sorcery by Russ. Even when he was the "GM" in title he didn't make those kinds of decisions--it's not his MO...and that's straight from his own mouth.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/bills_sabres_president_russ_brandon_new_role_criticism_unbelievable_year.html

Edited August 1, 2016 by thebandit27

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yes, but Malarkey's was over 10 years ago.

 

Has a team ever fired it's HC and GM after winning the Super Bowl?

 

Dallas got rid of Jimmy Johson but I'm sure we will

 

Because what Tyrod did was enough. He couldn't make the defensive unit play better. They let the side down.

 

After looking into the trends of a Greg Roman attack, there should be some minor improvement at QB and in the run game in Year 2. If Tyrod can at least replicate his 2015 season and Rex gets the defense up to his usual standards, we should start to see the progress reflected in the record. I think we match up well in the division and, with the Brady suspension, going 5-1 in the AFCE should be feasible. Not easy by any means but feasible.

 

Call it a gut instinct but I see reasons to be optimistic. The schedule doesn't look overly daunting either, a lot of winable games.

 

I think the schedule is tougher than last yr and teams could figure out TT and he could regress so ...

[Augie]

We went to Acapulco when I was a kid. I got a serious case of Montezuma's Revenge. I was not for "continuity" in that case. I am just slightly more certain in this case, but eager to see what the coming year brings. I hope it's better than last year. And Montezuma's Revenge.

[Nihilarian]

Leroi had had some things dead right.

 

He's also had some things dead wrong (like who our 3rd rd pick was going to be there year we took Darby and that Cardale Jones would compete for the #2 job this year, and that EJ would be cut just to name a few). That's not to pick on him--it's only to say that not all info that anyone has is gospel.

 

What I'm telling you is that the Pegulas don't need to be swayed by Russ or anyone else. If they feel strongly about something, they'll move on it.

 

Now, my opinion is that I agree that Whaley should've had autonomy in picking the coach.

 

What I can't do is attribute the Pegulas' decision to go with Rex to some sorcery by Russ. Even when he was the "GM" in title he didn't make those kinds of decisions--it's not his MO...and that's straight from his own mouth.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/bills_sabres_president_russ_brandon_new_role_criticism_unbelievable_year.html

You can't expect anyone to get draft pick predictions correct all the time and the more important thing here is the guy in known to work inside OBD while letting slip a bit of what's going in inside the org now and then. So, when the guy says that Brandon was in fact, the GM and "Russ has a big part in scouting and the draft process. He is definetly involved." I'd pretty much say you could take that bit of info to the bank!

 

Another item that is pretty much irrefutable is that ESPN reporter Mike Rodak wrote: Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building." This isn't sorcery by Rodak or anyone else as it's right there in black and white direct from ESPN that Russ Brandon used his considerable influence to sway the new owners to hire Rex Ryan!!

 

For years and years, you have been jumping on anyone who says that Brandon has been involved in football decisions and I have two sources right here that aren't fictional or imaginary like yours!

 

 

 

When I get more time I'll also delve into what happened with Bill Polian and why the team didn't hire that football czar.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Every coach should get at least 3 years, it takes a while to get going in the right direction, just like QB. QB's need more then 3 games before "Bills Mafia" runs them out of town because their name is not Jim Kelly.

Whaley is doing a bang up job and is on the same page as Rex which is good unlike coach quitter, then again i think cousin loving being accepted down south was the real reason he left.

[thebandit27]

You can't expect anyone to get draft pick predictions correct all the time and the more important thing here is the guy in known to work inside OBD while letting slip a bit of what's going in inside the org now and then. So, when the guy says that Brandon was in fact, the GM and "Russ has a big part in scouting and the draft process. He is definetly involved." I'd pretty much say you could take that bit of info to the bank!

 

Another item that is pretty much irrefutable is that ESPN reporter Mike Rodak wrote: Team president Russ Brandon was so impressed that he told owner Terry Pegula not to let Ryan out of the building." This isn't sorcery by Rodak or anyone else as it's right there in black and white direct from ESPN that Russ Brandon used his considerable influence to sway the new owners to hire Rex Ryan!!

 

For years and years, you have been jumping on anyone who says that Brandon has been involved in football decisions and I have two sources right here that aren't fictional or imaginary like yours!

 

 

 

When I get more time I'll also delve into what happened with Bill Polian and why the team didn't hire that football czar.

What this comes down to, for you, is confirmation bias.

 

In the link above, Russ's own words printed in black and white say specifically that he's not involved in the scouting process.

 

So that should seal the book on it, but alas, instead of believing the simple truth before you, you'd rather rely on a board source that--while I appreciate the info he's brought--has been wrong as often as he's been right.

 

I like Leroi. He's cheeky and has occasioned to have good info. He's also been flat-out wrong on some things--no biggie. I started this exchange by telling you that you don't have to believe me, but he is wrong about Russ's role. You don't even have to take my word for that--Russ's words are right there for you.

 

I don't have any compulsive need to defend the organization; I do prefer that folks that criticize them know what they're criticizing.

 

Anyway, I suggest we take it to PM if you want to discuss it further--I feel like we're getting in the way of the thread

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Anyway, I suggest we take it to PM if you want to discuss it further--I feel like we're getting in the way of the thread

its an interesting conversation and its pretty on-point with the thread topic. Personally I can't take everything the Master Marketer says publicly as gospel. Do you think he he's always 100% honest with a microphone in front of him to the point where his words can be held up as actual proof?

 

Not that I 100% believe Rodak or Leroi either

[thebandit27]

its an interesting conversation and its pretty on-point with the thread topic. Personally I can't take everything the Master Marketer says publicly as gospel. Do you think he he's always 100% honest with a microphone in front of him to the point where his words can be held up as actual proof?

 

Not that I 100% believe Rodak or Leroi either

Of course he's not 100% forthcoming about everything with the media. Nobody is.

 

On this particular subject, as he says, the draft that folks want to attribute to him would be one that he had no reason to distance himself from--Wood/Byrd/Levitre was a solid haul.

 

Moreover, let's apply simple logic here: his boss--the owner of the team--is happy with the job he's done. He has no impetus to distance himself from any job he's currently doing, so if he draws a distinction so clearly, there's no reason to suspect he's not being truthful.

 

IMO, Brandon catches blame for the football department because folks want to find a common thread to tie together 16 years of non-playoff football. Why not Russ since he's a highly ranking team official?

 

Unfortunately, it's not really the truth. The truth is that it's been systemic--bad drafting, bad coaching, poor allocation of resources. It's gotten better under Whaley and Pegula, but they need to take the next step.

[Nihilarian]

Yeah sure, and when GM Doug Whaley wanted to use two first round draft picks and a fourth pick on a WR when the team didn't have an already established franchise QB he ran it by the Buffalo Bills ball boys....

 

Of course Russ Brandon has never made the actual choice on a pick. However, he gave his nod of approval which is being directly involved. Just like using his considerable influence to sway the owners as to which head coach to choose is also being directly involved. Russ Brandon has been at the top of the football org chart since Marv Levy retired as GM and while not actually on the road scouting players and making the actual picks. I'm 100% positive that he has read the scouting reports and given his consent unto whom the team acquires in the draft and free agency in all those years. Confirmed sources state that he did!

 

 

On another note, allow me to provide a link as to what happened when Doug Marrone walked away from the team while retaining four million in doing so, http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/04/pegulas-are-learning-the-hard-way/

 

"It was Brandon who gave Marrone that outrageous $4 million exit clause when he hired him as coach two years ago this week. The Bills knew the Browns were interested in Marrone and, as a second-rate destination, were desperate not to lose him. Marrone wanted protection in the event of an ownership change."

 

(Now, does this mean that Russ Brandon was the person who actually presented Doug Marrone with the contract for him to sign, perhaps not! But the man was involved! What this infers is that Brandon hired Marrone and allowed that contract as the team president as of Jan 1st, 2013)

"Brandon and Whaley are spending the weekend in a desperate search for a head coach to replace Doug Marrone. Terry and Kim Pegula are expected to lend their limited football experience to the interview process." I can’t say what’s more troubling: The idea of the Pegulas quizzing top young football coaches; or the thought of respected NFL football men looking at Brandon and Whaley and wondering, “Weren’t they about to lose power and influence to Bill Polian?”

 

"As Tim Graham reported, Marrone ripped the Bills to Polian as he walked out the door, telling the former Bills GM that people inside the building were trashing Polian because they felt threatened by his possible return."

 

Those darn ball boys were at it again!

 

The reality of the situation is that "IF" Russ Brandon was 100% only involved in the business / financial side of the team. Then why wouldn't he allow his GM Buddy Nix alone to make the choice on who to hire as head coach and even before the Pegula's bought the team! The simple fact is that Brandon has been heavily involved in the football side and until the team hires that football czar / team president of football operations Brandon will still be involved.

 

"Brandon on Monday said the Bills conducted a "thorough, exhaustive and exhilarating search" for their new coach." http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8820882/doug-marrone-hired-buffalo-bills

 

After hiring Doug Marrone it was reported that both Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon flew to NYC to interview Jets DC Mike Pettine for the DC job in Buffalo. Why would the marketing / finance man do that if he is not involved in the football side of the team? He was involved and still is!

 

For the life of me, I still don't get that why anytime someone mentions Russ Brandon's name in regards to the football side of things then thebandit27 jumps in to defend him. If you have no connection to Brandon or the team then why do you so ardently attempt to defend the man continuously, constantly?