Don't expect Rex or Whaley to be fired in the offseason

[FireChan]

 

Yeah sure, and when GM Doug Whaley wanted to use two first round draft picks and a fourth pick on a WR when the team didn't have an already established franchise QB he ran it by the Buffalo Bills ball boys....

 

Of course Russ Brandon has never made the actual choice on a pick. However, he gave his nod of approval which is being directly involved. Just like using his considerable influence to sway the owners as to which head coach to choose is also being directly involved. Russ Brandon has been at the top of the football org chart since Marv Levy retired as GM and while not actually on the road scouting players and making the actual picks. I'm 100% positive that he has read the scouting reports and given his consent unto whom the team acquires in the draft and free agency in all those years. Confirmed sources state that he did!

 

 

On another note, allow me to provide a link as to what happened when Doug Marrone walked away from the team while retaining four million in doing so, http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/04/pegulas-are-learning-the-hard-way/

 

"It was Brandon who gave Marrone that outrageous $4 million exit clause when he hired him as coach two years ago this week. The Bills knew the Browns were interested in Marrone and, as a second-rate destination, were desperate not to lose him. Marrone wanted protection in the event of an ownership change."

 

(Now, does this mean that Russ Brandon was the person who actually presented Doug Marrone with the contract for him to sign, perhaps not! But the man was involved! What this infers is that Brandon hired Marrone and allowed that contract as the team president as of Jan 1st, 2013)

 

"Brandon and Whaley are spending the weekend in a desperate search for a head coach to replace Doug Marrone. Terry and Kim Pegula are expected to lend their limited football experience to the interview process." I cant say whats more troubling: The idea of the Pegulas quizzing top young football coaches; or the thought of respected NFL football men looking at Brandon and Whaley and wondering, Werent they about to lose power and influence to Bill Polian?

 

"As Tim Graham reported, Marrone ripped the Bills to Polian as he walked out the door, telling the former Bills GM that people inside the building were trashing Polian because they felt threatened by his possible return."

 

Those darn ball boys were at it again!

 

The reality of the situation is that "IF" Russ Brandon was 100% only involved in the business / financial side of the team. Then why wouldn't he allow his GM Buddy Nix alone to make the choice on who to hire as head coach and even before the Pegula's bought the team! The simple fact is that Brandon has been heavily involved in the football side and until the team hires that football czar / team president of football operations Brandon will still be involved.

 

"Brandon on Monday said the Bills conducted a "thorough, exhaustive and exhilarating search" for their new coach." http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8820882/doug-marrone-hired-buffalo-bills

 

After hiring Doug Marrone it was reported that both Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon flew to NYC to interview Jets DC Mike Pettine for the DC job in Buffalo. Why would the marketing / finance man do that if he is not involved in the football side of the team? He was involved and still is!

 

 

 

For the life of me, I still don't get that why anytime someone mentions Russ Brandon's name in regards to the football side of things then thebandit27 jumps in to defend him. If you have no connection to Brandon or the team then why do you so ardently attempt to defend the man continuously, constantly?

To your last, because bandit believes you are wrong. You have no connection to Russ either but you seem to attack the man continuously, constantly.

[C.Biscuit97]

Every coach should get at least 3 years, it takes a while to get going in the right direction, just like QB. QB's need more then 3 games before "Bills Mafia" runs them out of town because their name is not Jim Kelly.

Whaley is doing a bang up job and is on the same page as Rex which is good unlike coach quitter, then again i think cousin loving being accepted down south was the real reason he left.

While there's always exceptions to the rule, for first time coach, I agree they should get 3 years. By why does a fired coach and retread deserve 3 years? Again, if the Bills have an 8-8 or worse year, the overwhelming evidence would be Rex is a below average head coach. Why keep him around if this is the case?

 

Again, I hope the Bills make the playoffs and this conversation looks silly in January. But as we stand right now, Rex is an average at best head coach who talks a lot. That isn't hard to replace.

You are making lots of sense CB. You and I differ about Jauron (I despise his defensive philosophy). I think he was an awful coach, yet I think Ryan is worse.

This was a tough, aggressive defense. Now it is passive, undisciplined, and their best players are misused. I understand that this is a fan site, so it's great to keep the faith. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if they win 5 games or less.

 

The good news imo is that Taylor really does have a chance to be very good if he stays healthy. Will he be good enough to save Rex and Whaley? You tell me. I truly don't think Rex will last the season. I think Whaley will, but that's about it.

 

I really am sorry to be so negative, but I am just unable to see good things happening with Ryan or Whaley. I hope to be happily surprised.

Haha, thanks Bill. For the record, I never have said Jauron was a good coach. But he was very limited by his personnel. Those were awful teams in terms of talent. I have zero doubt Jauron would have had better results with our personnel than Rex did.

 

I do think Whaley is a good GM. Rex just worn out his welcome with me quicker than any Bills coach in recent memory. I'm not a giant fan of big mouths in general. But average to below average big mouths are the worse.

 

Hopefully, he just shuts up and actually coaches the team to better than his typical 7-8 wins/ season.

[Nihilarian]

To your last, because bandit believes you are wrong. You have no connection to Russ either but you seem to attack the man continuously, constantly.

and exactly how am I "attacking" him? All I see that I'm doing is quoting others as to his involvement.

 

I'm not the only one that garners his direct interest. To some, any talk of Brandon being involved in anything other than the business side of things is a "witch hunt". http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/182332-when-will-russ-brandon-be-held-accountable/

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Of course he's not 100% forthcoming about everything with the media. Nobody is.

 

On this particular subject, as he says, the draft that folks want to attribute to him would be one that he had no reason to distance himself from--Wood/Byrd/Levitre was a solid haul.

 

Moreover, let's apply simple logic here: his boss--the owner of the team--is happy with the job he's done. He has no impetus to distance himself from any job he's currently doing, so if he draws a distinction so clearly, there's no reason to suspect he's not being truthful.

 

IMO, Brandon catches blame for the football department because folks want to find a common thread to tie together 16 years of non-playoff football. Why not Russ since he's a highly ranking team official?

 

Unfortunately, it's not really the truth. The truth is that it's been systemic--bad drafting, bad coaching, poor allocation of resources. It's gotten better under Whaley and Pegula, but they need to take the next step.

Thanks, I see where you're coming from now.

 

To the bolded, no doubt Brandon, being the ticket salesman and a savvy one at that, has his ear to the ground and is aware that Bills fans everywhere want to hear that he's not involved with the football side.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Of course he's not 100% forthcoming about everything with the media. Nobody is.

 

On this particular subject, as he says, the draft that folks want to attribute to him would be one that he had no reason to distance himself from--Wood/Byrd/Levitre was a solid haul.

 

Moreover, let's apply simple logic here: his boss--the owner of the team--is happy with the job he's done. He has no impetus to distance himself from any job he's currently doing, so if he draws a distinction so clearly, there's no reason to suspect he's not being truthful.

 

IMO, Brandon catches blame for the football department because folks want to find a common thread to tie together 16 years of non-playoff football. Why not Russ since he's a highly ranking team official?

 

Unfortunately, it's not really the truth. The truth is that it's been systemic--bad drafting, bad coaching, poor allocation of resources. It's gotten better under Whaley and Pegula, but they need to take the next step.

 

We have Ralph Wilson to thank for the turn around, never forget that, yeah Ralph made some mistakes, most notable Tom Donahoe who force Ralph to bring back Marv just to rebuild the fan base Donahoe destroyed. Jerry Jones has made tons of mistakes too after his 3rd Super Bowl and his love as of late for Tony Romo. Ralph recovered by getting the right people in the FO and Pegs made the wise move to follow the blue prints Ralph laid out, for now. The Bills are getting better and better, this is our year for a postseason birth.

[thebandit27]

To your last, because bandit believes you are wrong. You have no connection to Russ either but you seem to attack the man continuously, constantly.

 

That about sums it up.

 

It's really not that complicated, though I'm not at all surprised to see Nihilarian bust out the "you must be a shill" argument. It fits really well...

 

I'm the shill that didn't like the Rex hire

I'm the shill that didn't like that Whaley didn't get to hand-pick his coach

I'm the shill that hated the Darby pick (glad to be wrong!)

I'm the shill that hated the Kouandjio pick (hated being right!)

 

When faced with the idea that the need to blame one single person for 16 years of futility is misguided, it becomes a lot easier for some to cast history aside and apply labels instead.

 

#shillinlikeavillian

 

Thanks, I see where you're coming from now.

 

To the bolded, no doubt Brandon, being the ticket salesman and a savvy one at that, has his ear to the ground and is aware that Bills fans everywhere want to hear that he's not involved with the football side.

 

Absolutely...if nothing else, he knows what the people want to hear.

 

It doesn't surprise me one bit that Uncle Terry loves Russ--they have the same philosophy: hire qualified people that you trust, and then let them do their jobs.

 

What's always been interesting to me about the insistence that Russ is heavily involved in personnel is that for the better part of 2 years (from January 2013 to October 2014), he had veto power over any personnel decision that the GM wanted to make (as acting CEO in Mr. Wilson's stead). Never once (to my knowledge) did he exercise it--he wanted Whaley (and Nix) to sink or swim on their own. In fact, when Whaley wanted to move up for Sammy and give away significant resources to do so, Russ told him "be bold". That's hardly a guy that reeks of interfering in personnel.

 

But in the end, folks will believe what they want. The truth is like gravity--it's there regardless of what we believe.

 

We have Ralph Wilson to thank for the turn around, never forget that, yeah Ralph made some mistakes, most notable Tom Donahoe who force Ralph to bring back Marv just to rebuild the fan base Donahoe destroyed. Jerry Jones has made tons of mistakes too after his 3rd Super Bowl and his love as of late for Tony Romo. Ralph recovered by getting the right people in the FO and Pegs made the wise move to follow the blue prints Ralph laid out, for now. The Bills are getting better and better, this is our year for a postseason birth.

 

Mr. Wilson did a LOT of things wrong--one thing I'll never fault him for is his desire to win. He just didn't know how to do it.

 

I am happy that he brought in Nix, who then brought in Whaley, because yes, it seems like Whaley's got the train moving in the right direction.

 

As I said before though: they need to take the next step, and soon, or new people will (and should) be driving the train.

Edited August 2, 2016 by thebandit27

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Of course Ralph made mistakes, but he also did a lot of good for Buffalo.

But the fact is the Bills are running from his playbook right now. Pegs is my personal hero dont get me wrong but Ralph was the man too. He didnt move the team to LA, he fought for the fans in regards to ticket pricing and not pushing for a PSL laced stadium that over priced the average Bills fan.

His success with the team out weighs the mistakes he made as owner.

[thebandit27]

Of course Ralph made mistakes, but he also did a lot of good for Buffalo.

But the fact is the Bills are running from his playbook right now. Pegs is my personal hero dont get me wrong but Ralph was the man too. He didnt move the team to LA, he fought for the fans in regards to ticket pricing and not pushing for a PSL laced stadium that over priced the average Bills fan.

His success with the team out weighs the mistakes he made as owner.

 

Not sure I agree with that last part, but yes, Mr. Wilson was quite the friend to WNY

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

The truth is like gravity--it's there regardless of what we believe.

That is profound, Bandito. I could say more but I won't bore you with my philosophy. Nice post!

 

You too Nihilarian, thanks for bringing your perspective and the logic and thought behind it.

 

Oh to be a fly on the wall at OBD...

[Nihilarian]

Nobody is blaming Brandon for 16 years of futility. The man was in fact, the de facto GM after Marv Levy retired after the 2007 season and has been involved in the football operations side of the team since that time.

 

All I'm doing is noting that the man has been involved in the football side of operations and when Doug Whaley wanted input into allowing him to use three picks to draft Sammy Watkins "he told him to be bold" is involvement. Telling the new owners to not let Rex Ryan out of the building is involvement!

 

I have no agenda to see Brandon gone from the Buffalo Bills as I realize he is a huge asset to the business / financial / marketing side of the team. I would just like to see an experienced senior NFL man in charge of the football operations of the team as this would take both Brandon and the owners out of the football side of hiring / personnel / player acquisitions.

[John from Riverside]

Nobody is blaming Brandon for 16 years of futility. The man was in fact, the de facto GM after Marv Levy retired after the 2007 season and has been involved in the football operations side of the team since that time.

 

All I'm doing is noting that the man has been involved in the football side of operations and when Doug Whaley wanted input into allowing him to use three picks to draft Sammy Watkins "he told him to be bold" is involvement. Telling the new owners to not let Rex Ryan out of the building is involvement!

 

I have no agenda to see Brandon gone from the Buffalo Bills as I realize he is a huge asset to the business / financial / marketing side of the team. I would just like to see an experienced senior NFL man in charge of the football operations of the team as this would take both Brandon and the owners out of the football side of hiring / personnel / player acquisitions.

I agree that Brandon has had input.....just hasnt been making the final decisions of late.

 

Just a small note which is water under the bridge....if EJ Manuel had actually turned into a true franchise QB then nobody would be questioning the picks given up for Sammy Watkins.....cuz Sammy would already be an all pro every year.

 

I know its an "ifs and buts" thing....and it didnt work out.....but HAD it worked out the bills front office would look like great all the way around.

[thebandit27]

Nobody is blaming Brandon for 16 years of futility. The man was in fact, the de facto GM after Marv Levy retired after the 2007 season and has been involved in the football operations side of the team since that time.

 

All I'm doing is noting that the man has been involved in the football side of operations and when Doug Whaley wanted input into allowing him to use three picks to draft Sammy Watkins "he told him to be bold" is involvement. Telling the new owners to not let Rex Ryan out of the building is involvement!

 

I have no agenda to see Brandon gone from the Buffalo Bills as I realize he is a huge asset to the business / financial / marketing side of the team. I would just like to see an experienced senior NFL man in charge of the football operations of the team as this would take both Brandon and the owners out of the football side of hiring / personnel / player acquisitions.

 

It's not breaking news that the President of the Team talks to the owner.

 

If all you're doing is pointing out that Brandon answers questions when he's asked or speaks to the owner and GM, well, my response is: so what?

 

I think, however, that it's clear that you ascribe blame for the on-field product to him, otherwise there's zero point in bringing it up repeatedly.

 

So let me give you the chance to make clear your beef with him: what are the hirings/personnel moves/football-related facets of the team for which you are blaming Russ, and why do you think it's his influence that is the driving force in those decisions (as opposed to him playing the "yes man" role in football decisions made by the GM and owner)?

 

Seems to me this boils down to you not being happy that he told the Pegulas not to let Rex leave, and if that's the case, well, then your complaint should be with Whaley. As the head of football operations, it's his job to speak up if he thinks it's a bad hire. Neither Russ nor the Pegulas would've ignored him and done what they wish; that is not their style (nor has it ever been).

 

For the record, I also am disappointed with Whaley in that regard. If he felt strongly that Rex wasn't the right guy, then he should've pressed the issue. Maybe he was nervous having never been through this process with the new ownership before, but the GM job requires that kind of gumption. At the same time, if he truly was fine with Rex's hiring, then (IMO) he missed the mark with that as well. I've never been a big Rex fan, and I don't think it was a great hire (despite the fact that I think he's a fun character and would be great to have a beer with).

[Nihilarian]

I agree that Brandon has had input.....just hasnt been making the final decisions of late.

 

Just a small note which is water under the bridge....if EJ Manuel had actually turned into a true franchise QB then nobody would be questioning the picks given up for Sammy Watkins.....cuz Sammy would already be an all pro every year.

 

I know its an "ifs and buts" thing....and it didnt work out.....but HAD it worked out the bills front office would look like great all the way around.

Thank you for that acknowledgement, John! I also agree with you if by saying "as of late" meaning since Rex Ryan was hired.

 

I really wouldn't care to debate the aspect of Sammy Watkins or EJ's impact should have things worked out differently. All I'll say is I feel this team is still quite a ways away from challenging for the division or making the playoffs. Much less having any kind of impact should a miracle happen and that oblong spheroid bounce the Buffalo Bills way all season so the team does somehow make the playoffs.

 

Not for nothing, but I just don't see a bright future for this franchise with the owners making the final choices on the hirings of the head coach or GM and the very last thing I want to see is the owner in the draft room drafting RB's and DB's again.

[John from Riverside]

Thank you for that acknowledgement, John! I also agree with you if by saying "as of late" meaning since Rex Ryan was hired.

 

I really wouldn't care to debate the aspect of Sammy Watkins or EJ's impact should have things worked out differently. All I'll say is I feel this team is still quite a ways away from challenging for the division or making the playoffs. Much less having any kind of impact should a miracle happen and that oblong spheroid bounce the Buffalo Bills way all season so the team does somehow make the playoffs.

 

Not for nothing, but I just don't see a bright future for this franchise with the owners making the final choices on the hirings of the head coach or GM and the very last thing I want to see is the owner in the draft room drafting RB's and DB's again.

I thought it was actually a 2 way swing last year that kept us out.....so closer then we realize.

 

To me its a health thing......when our core group of offensive players were together we looked outstanding....Our D sustained key injuries that hurt communication and cost us to drop like 15 spots?

 

Its about health....I am actually pretty excited that we about the low key veterans that have been brought in by the team.....not that they are stars....but that the first player off the bench in an injury is a former starter of another NFL team.....

 

Blanton

Z. Brown

the OG/C from the panthers

 

examples like that.......

[Thurman#1]

For those that think either Rex Ryan and/or Doug Whaley will be fired in the offseason if the Bills fail to make the playoffs, it's not going to happen. Both Kim Pegula and Russ Brandon stated on WGR550 that they believe in continuity and this is only year 2 in the Pegula/Whaley/Ryan era.

 

http://media.wgr550.com/a/116124419/07-28-bills-president-russ-brandon-on-the-john-murphy-show.htm?pageid=1114062

 

 

 

Didn't they say the same thing about Darcy Regier? Right after they'd given him a big contract extension? Just before the season after which they fired him?

 

Yeah, they did.

Nobody is blaming Brandon for 16 years of futility. The man was in fact, the de facto GM after Marv Levy retired after the 2007 season and has been involved in the football operations side of the team since that time.

 

All I'm doing is noting that the man has been involved in the football side of operations and when Doug Whaley wanted input into allowing him to use three picks to draft Sammy Watkins "he told him to be bold" is involvement. Telling the new owners to not let Rex Ryan out of the building is involvement!

 

I have no agenda to see Brandon gone from the Buffalo Bills as I realize he is a huge asset to the business / financial / marketing side of the team. I would just like to see an experienced senior NFL man in charge of the football operations of the team as this would take both Brandon and the owners out of the football side of hiring / personnel / player acquisitions.

 

 

 

Being asked for your opinion doesn't mean they put much or any stock in it once they hear it.

 

Each time, Russ told the guy asking the question what he wanted to hear. There's no indication that those opinions changed anything or meant anything or carried any weight.

 

I personally am not convinced they take him even slightly seriously on the football side. I could be wrong. But there

 

And we've got an experienced guy in charge of the football side. Like him or hate him, Whaley has put in his time. I just want him held responsible for whatever happens, good or bad. To me the book's still out on him. He's made wonderful and terrible decisions. But if he doesn't put together a winning team, a good team, soon, I'd guess there'll be serious repercussions, and that the replacement might indeed be a senior NFL personnel guy, for good or bad.

[Thurman#1]

 

 

Fixed.

 

On what planet are billionaire businessmen not motivated by making money? I'm interested in hearing more about this.

 

 

 

On Planet Bill Gates, where he's now spending virtually all his time running a charitable foundation. On Planet Andrew Carnegie. There are actually a fair amount of very rich businessmen who later in life rearranged their priorities. On Planet Warren Buffett, where he's given away more than $23 billion so far and pledged to give away 99% of his fortune.

 

I couldn't and wouldn't comment on the Pegulas, but this is not an unknown phenomena.

[ndirish1978]

I'd be interested to see the age split on this board between anti-Rex posters and pro-Rex posters. Anti seems to be a bit older. I wonder how much of the hate is just his personality in general.

Edited August 3, 2016 by ndirish1978

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I'd be interested to see the age split on this board between anti-Rex posters and pro-Rex posters. Anti seems to be a bit older. I wonder how much of the hate is just his personality in general.

I'm sure a bunch of it stems from personality. His character, real or simulated, is that of a career winner with scores of dominated teams in his wake. The bravado and blister are that of an accomplished winning coach.

 

His results are in the Wayne Fontes ballpark.

 

Patience wears thin for those that can't walk the talk...

[Jerry Jabber]

 

 

 

Didn't they say the same thing about Darcy Regier? Right after they'd given him a big contract extension? Just before the season after which they fired him?

 

Yeah, they did.

Difference is, Regier had 15 years on the job with the same team as Rex and Doug have only been in their positions with the Bills for two years.

[Fadingpain]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but John Clayton was on with S&B the other day and he said No playoffs = Rex being fired, period.

 

Of course, that's jut his opinion, and Clayton's ability to accurately gather info. and make accurate near term predictions regarding NFL happenings is not particularly good.

Difference is, Regier had 15 years on the job with the same team as Rex and Doug have only been in their positions with the Bills for two years.

And yet from Day 1, Pegula said the then-current Sabre regime headed by Darcy would be judged ONLY on its time under Pegula's ownership, so the analogy is relevant, despite your insinuation to the contrary.