TOD 7/29: Kim Pegula - active owner? Is this good?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

 

Listen, it's not her fault she was barefoot when Rex slept over

 

 

 

 

CBF

 

 

New Jills ?

[Nihilarian]

 

Even though the same successful person you speak of says you're wrong?

Exactly where did she say that "I'm wrong"? By stating that there will be no changes to the HC or GM after the season at this point in time?

 

I can't tell you how many times I've read where an NFL owner pats a HC / GM on the back and states your job is safe... only to fire them later when things go badly.

 

Even Bill Belichick admits that being an NFL head coach is a year by year process and nothing is etched in stone

[White Linen]

Exactly where did she say that "I'm wrong"? By stating that there will be no changes to the HC or GM after the season at this point in time?

 

I can't tell you how many times I've read where an NFL owner pats a HC / GM on the back and states your job is safe... only to fire them later when things go badly.

 

Even Bill Belichick admits that being an NFL head coach is a year by year process and nothing is etched in stone

 

She's successful because she's not being honest about continuity being a core belief?

[Joe Miner]

 

 

How does this thread have no pictures?

She has my full support

[Nihilarian]

 

She's successful because she's not being honest about continuity being a core belief?

The fact that it's been reported from people inside the org that both the GM and HC are on a short leash this year leads me to believe that anything said by the owners at this point about what happens next offseason is meaningless.

 

This HC didn't take a bad team and make them better. He took what many believed a playoff caliber team and got them to a very middling record. As Doug Whaley stated he was building the team to win now. Rex Ryan also took a playoff caliber defense and managed to ruin it because the players didn't fit his scheme and this was his supposed area of expertise.

 

The fact that the Pegula's are so successful in every business venture they own tells me that they won't put up with losing or with someone who is bad at their respective job for long. Just my opinion.

[White Linen]

The fact that it's been reported from people inside the org that both the GM and HC are on a short leash this year leads me to believe that anything said by the owners at this point about what happens next offseason is meaningless.

 

This HC didn't take a bad team and make them better. He took what many believed a playoff caliber team and got them to a very middling record. As Doug Whaley stated he was building the team to win now. Rex Ryan also took a playoff caliber defense and managed to ruin it because the players didn't fit his scheme and this was his supposed area of expertise.

 

The fact that the Pegula's are so successful in every business venture they own tells me that they won't put up with losing or with someone who is bad at their respective job for long. Just my opinion.

 

Look I understand what you're saying and I understand what everyone is predicting about Rex. What I don't understand is why posters like you are anticipating failure (certainly your right) and want/hope the owners are on the ready to blow the whole damn thing up before the season has even started.

 

They bought this team less than 2 years ago and want to build stability and send that message throughout the organization. What awful people.

[RuffMuff]

Her team and she's a local. I would back her up in any corner...

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Look I understand what you're saying and I understand what everyone is predicting about Rex. What I don't understand is why posters like you are anticipating failure (certainly your right) and want/hope the owners are on the ready to blow the whole damn thing up before the season has even started.

 

They bought this team less than 2 years ago and want to build stability and send that message throughout the organization. What awful people.

I don't think anyone is saying the Pegulas are awful people.

 

The perspective you say you don't understand is not very complicated in my opinion. In an ever-changing arena, Rex has failed 5 seasons in a row and wears his unwillingness to adapt on his sleeve. Some of us don't believe in him as a Head Coach anymore. Give me a coach I can believe in or at least can reasonably give the benefit of the doubt, and I'm happy to both preach and exercise patience. Very few fans here wanted Marrone, for example, fired before he resigned. There was enough gray area to give him the benefit of the doubt, and nearly all of us did so.

[inkman]

I find her a little attractive myself

A little?

[K-9]

I don't think anyone is saying the Pegulas are awful people.

 

The perspective you say you don't understand is not very complicated in my opinion. In an ever-changing arena, Rex has failed 5 seasons in a row and wears his unwillingness to adapt on his sleeve. Some of us don't believe in him as a Head Coach anymore. Give me a coach I can believe in or at least can reasonably give the benefit of the doubt, and I'm happy to both preach and exercise patience. Very few fans here wanted Marrone, for example, fired before he resigned. There was enough gray area to give him the benefit of the doubt, and nearly all of us did so.

I'm not sure I follow this line of thinking. What is it, exactly, that Rex Ryan isn't adapting to?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I'm not sure I follow this line of thinking. What is it, exactly, that Rex Ryan isn't adapting to?

He doesn't want to focus on scoring points rather than using clock, seems unable to simplify his defense in the face of higher roster turnover and drastically less preparation time, and doesn't have an offense with a passing game versatile enough to give his team a chance when his defense fails in a league that's set up for his defense to fail. He also took over an all-world D-line that can win matchups and was unable to adapt to his defense in a way that allowed the dogs to hunt, as Nihilarian's avatar notes.

 

On the third point I'm not saying its impossible to have a Broncos-type defense but its a lot more difficult than it used to be.

Also the snap is coming faster than ever and he can't consistently get the playcall in on time to allow his defense to be ready in his complicated scheme.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Aaron

[Mr. WEO]

 

The Ryan hire (and the success of it) will shape their perception. As a public face, it's nice to see female representation at the highest level. She seems to be a very intelligent and likeable sort of person.

 

For anyone confused, Rex was a Pegula hire. Whaley was on board with Hue Jackson, keeping Schwartz as DC.

 

Where is that recorded? Whaley is on record as being fully behind Rex's hire. His own words make his thoughts clear to us.

[K-9]

He doesn't want to focus on scoring points rather than using clock, seems unable to simplify his defense in the face of higher roster turnover and drastically less preparation time, and doesn't have an offense with a passing game versatile enough to give his team a chance when his defense fails in a league that's set up for his defense to fail. He also took over an all-world D-line that can win matchups and was unable to adapt to his defense in a way that allowed the dogs to hunt, as Nihilarian's avatar notes.

 

On the third point I'm not saying its impossible to have a Broncos-type defense but its a lot more difficult than it used to be.

Also the snap is coming faster than ever and he can't consistently get the playcall in on time to allow his defense to be ready in his complicated scheme.

To your first point, I don't know if it was unwise, with a QB that never started a game, to want to build a ball control offense. Even still, the Bills led the league in big plays last year (run plays over 10 yards, pass plays over 20). Not exactly conservative all the time.

 

He simplified the defense after the bye and it improved a lot over the first 8 games. Still a work in progress, I grant you, but it was trending in an upward arc.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't have an offense with a passing game versatile enough to give his team a chance when his defense fails in a league that's set up for his defense to fail." As to the passing game versatility, I think, again, Roman was choosing to bring TT along slowly earlier on. By the last 6 games or so, we were seeing TT exploit the middle of the field much more often and he and Sammy were simply giving opposing teams fits as a result. And that was without a viable option on the other side in the form of an injured Woods and nobody to stretch the field and occupy safeties.

 

I appreciate that he screwed the pooch by switching to a 34 and making Mario and Hughes plays out of a 2-point stance much of the time as that undoubtedly made them less effective pass rushers. But Hughes did very well after the bye and we'll never know how much better we would have been if Mario hadn't quit. People who hate Rex pooh pooh that aspect, but not having Mario, who has all the tools to play and excel in the 34, hurt that defense a lot.

 

Your point about the confusion with play calls is a fair one. We all saw it. And, ultimately it's on Rex for not being able to get his defensive QBs to adapt fast enough. Brown was confused a lot of the time. But I'm willing to chalk that up to a player trying to come to grips with a new and complex system. I'd be surprised if that problem continues now that we've had a full year in the system.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[White Linen]

I don't think anyone is saying the Pegulas are awful people.

 

The perspective you say you don't understand is not very complicated in my opinion. In an ever-changing arena, Rex has failed 5 seasons in a row and wears his unwillingness to adapt on his sleeve. Some of us don't believe in him as a Head Coach anymore. Give me a coach I can believe in or at least can reasonably give the benefit of the doubt, and I'm happy to both preach and exercise patience. Very few fans here wanted Marrone, for example, fired before he resigned. There was enough gray area to give him the benefit of the doubt, and nearly all of us did so.

 

Are you serious, you think coaches are for the fans to believe in? All that matters is that the players and FO do and if the players do they have a chance to play well. Why don't you just let it play out before you pretend to know the future?

 

If you would even at this point give Marrone the benefit of the doubt above Rex than there is nothing for us to discuss.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Triple Threat

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

To your first point, I don't know if it was unwise, with a QB that never started a game, to want to build a ball control offense. Even still, the Bills led the league in big plays last year (run plays over 10 yards, pass plays over 20). Not exactly conservative all the time.

 

He simplified the defense after the bye and it improved a lot over the first 8 games. Still a work in progress, I grant you, but it was trending in an upward arc.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't have an offense with a passing game versatile enough to give his team a chance when his defense fails in a league that's set up for his defense to fail." As to the passing game versatility, I think, again, Roman was choosing to bring TT along slowly earlier on. By the last 6 games or so, we were seeing TT exploit the middle of the field much more often and he and Sammy were simply giving opposing teams fits as a result. And that was without a viable option on the other side in the form of an injured Woods and nobody to stretch the field and occupy safeties.

 

I appreciate that he screwed the pooch by switching to a 34 and making Mario and Hughes plays out of a 2-point stance much of the time as that undoubtedly made them less effective pass rushers. But Hughes did very well after the bye and we'll never know how much better we would have been if Mario hadn't quit. People who hate Rex pooh pooh that aspect, but not having Mario, who has all the tools to play and excel in the 34, hurt that defense a lot.

 

Your point about the confusion with play calls is a fair one. We all saw it. And, ultimately it's on Rex for not being able to get his defensive QBs to adapt fast enough. Brown was confused a lot of the time. But I'm willing to chalk that up to a player trying to come to grips with a new and complex system. I'd be surprised if that problem continues now that we've had a full year in the system.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Firstly I want to let you know I have high regard for your thoughts on this game because I know when you watch football you see things I and others do not. For example I was way off on the proper way to evaluate arm strength until like 7 years ago, the first time I saw you break down the telling nature of the 25-yard out. Then there was the 1,000 attempt test and on and on. So I thank you for engaging with me and sharing some of that with us.

 

I should've been more clear but my first point about them prioritizing chewing clock over scoring points, I was thinking about no-huddle situations. Its not a real complex thing, relatively speaking, to run a hurry-up. Just about every QB that steps on the field in the NFL is able to operate that way when prepared by their coaching staff for the situation. The Bills had a disturbing habit of huddling up, sending people in motion, declining to use timeouts and burning the entire play clock when they clearly had an opportunity to score, and more urgency would've increased their chances. A couple of examples would be the comedy of inefficiency at the end of the 1st half against Dallas and the end of the first half against I think it was the Colts week 1. If I recall Karlos Williams scored on a 30+ yard handoff with about 30 seconds left in the half, essentially a give-up play. The inside straight draw hit on the river, and by all means celebrate it and enjoy it to the fullest when it happens, but that fortunate result doesn't mean I'd want to play the hand the same way going forward.

 

I don't know what to think about the defense this coming year I'll be honest. They had a confused, messy game against Washington Football Club as late as week 15 with the season on the line. But I agree it was generally better late in the year. I have concern the complexity of what we do may continue to work to our detriment in year 2 but only the future knows. I think we'll at least be nasty against the run with Ragland aboard and make teams one-dimensional.

 

Re: versatility of the passing game, Roman was 1-2 with SF when opponents scored 30+ points and an ugly 0-5 in such games last year with the Bills. I don't think its an offense built to come from behind or win shootouts (which is more important than it used to be) because the passing game can't stand on its own. When they make plays in the passing game its usually out of a run set and off play action, fooling the defense. Its tough to win a game with only that when you get down multiple scores.

 

I know many put the above on Tyrod, maybe I have a higher opinion of Tyrod than some others? I think if you put him, Watkins, Clay with coaches who know how to spread the field and flood deep zones with run n shoot, these players would be good enough to give us more of a chance to win those types of games. Like even in year one I think Mike McCarthy would've had days where we just slung the rock and were unbeatable because of it, even if our D wasn't great.

 

The confusion...I hope it goes away. And I hope the 46 defense or whatever he's up to this year can work in 2016. GO BILLS

Edited July 30, 2016 by Aaron

[mannc]

To your first point, I don't know if it was unwise, with a QB that never started a game, to want to build a ball control offense. Even still, the Bills led the league in big plays last year (run plays over 10 yards, pass plays over 20). Not exactly conservative all the time.

 

He simplified the defense after the bye and it improved a lot over the first 8 games. Still a work in progress, I grant you, but it was trending in an upward arc.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't have an offense with a passing game versatile enough to give his team a chance when his defense fails in a league that's set up for his defense to fail." As to the passing game versatility, I think, again, Roman was choosing to bring TT along slowly earlier on. By the last 6 games or so, we were seeing TT exploit the middle of the field much more often and he and Sammy were simply giving opposing teams fits as a result. And that was without a viable option on the other side in the form of an injured Woods and nobody to stretch the field and occupy safeties.

 

I appreciate that he screwed the pooch by switching to a 34 and making Mario and Hughes plays out of a 2-point stance much of the time as that undoubtedly made them less effective pass rushers. But Hughes did very well after the bye and we'll never know how much better we would have been if Mario hadn't quit. People who hate Rex pooh pooh that aspect, but not having Mario, who has all the tools to play and excel in the 34, hurt that defense a lot.

 

Your point about the confusion with play calls is a fair one. We all saw it. And, ultimately it's on Rex for not being able to get his defensive QBs to adapt fast enough. Brown was confused a lot of the time. But I'm willing to chalk that up to a player trying to come to grips with a new and complex system. I'd be surprised if that problem continues now that we've had a full year in the system.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Don't you think Mario quitting is in large part on Rex? As HC, isn't it his job to motivate his players and see that they give their all, week in and week out, and if they don't, replace them? Mario didn't quit on Marrone, did he? I don't understand why Rex gets a pass for that. Edited July 30, 2016 by mannc

[Formerly Allan in MD]

What a sexist thread.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Are you serious, you think coaches are for the fans to believe in? All that matters is that the players and FO do and if the players do they have a chance to play well. Why don't you just let it play out before you pretend to know the future?

 

If you would even at this point give Marrone the benefit of the doubt above Rex than there is nothing for us to discuss.

you specifically asked why some FANS are not confident in Rex and want him out if he does poorly this year, and I answered you.

[Gugny]

The fact is, Kim Pegula is the reason why Buffalo still has an NFL football team. Did she choose poorly?

Plumbing has nothing to do with bad luck, or poor choices. Marv hired "Dick" Jauron.

The jury is still out on the Rex/Rob REDRUM (With apologies to 'The Shining') connection. although, the ice is starting to look pretty thin right about now.

I see a great future for the Buffalo Bills, hopefully, starting with the Jet's home season opener.

 

Marv was also as good of a GM as Tim Tebow was a QB.

 

The jury isn't out on the Ryan Bros. They've destroyed every team they've been part of. Rex's early success with the Jets was like Marv's success with the Bills and Joe Torre's success with the Yankees. If you're handed the most talented team in the game, it's pretty hard to !@#$ it up. Only difference is that Torre was actually good enough to win it all.

 

At the end of the 2014 season, I saw great things for the Bills. Then it was all pissed away. Because Kim Pegula, who knows nothing about football or oil, but gets richer by the minute because of both, wanted Rex Ryan as the head coach.

 

They've already sold their season tickets, so this year means nothing to the Pegulas. When, and only when, ticket and merch sales start to drop ... that is when they'll give up control.

[CommonCents]

 

Marv was also as good of a GM as Tim Tebow was a QB.

 

The jury isn't out on the Ryan Bros. They've destroyed every team they've been part of. Rex's early success with the Jets was like Marv's success with the Bills and Joe Torre's success with the Yankees. If you're handed the most talented team in the game, it's pretty hard to !@#$ it up. Only difference is that Torre was actually good enough to win it all.

 

At the end of the 2014 season, I saw great things for the Bills. Then it was all pissed away. Because Kim Pegula, who knows nothing about football or oil, but gets richer by the minute because of both, wanted Rex Ryan as the head coach.

 

They've already sold their season tickets, so this year means nothing to the Pegulas. When, and only when, ticket and merch sales start to drop ... that is when they'll give up control.

Competing Marv to Torre is a little uneven. The only team we were more talented than was the Giants and even though we got out coached we had a chance to win. The Cowboys n Skins were stacked. Torre had the best team for a number of years. Just run the names through your head it was an impressive team, the first time in years iv thought the name John Wetteland.