JP-era Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 That has to be the plan here. I dont see anyway that TD brought in Shelton who is a downgrade at LT to Jennings to play LT. That doesnt make sense when you make a comment like "we werent good enough on offense". I doesnt make sense to then dowgrade at LT, the most important T position. Many think Shelton is a dowgrade including ESPN who ranked Jennings WAY above Shelton as far as grading. Yes, the guy is a project at this point but with JMac I think he can be very very good. I still would rather follow the pay train here and stick Williams at LT and Shelton at RT. One thing I like about Shelton is his size 6' 6" 335, and his contract, the TRavis trade works out to only eat into our cap by around 2 mill (3 mill for Shelton - TRavis 1 mill = 2 mill). That very cheap for a guy with upside and a T. Next is our LG spot and I think this is where we spend most of our cash. If Mike Wahle is released, I think they grab him, if not it could be a younger guy like Coleman o rmaybe the draft in David Baas. Dont rule out Bubba Franks being a Bill, the transition tag only mean the Pack has the right to match, and they get NO compensation. This is how we got Takeo Spikes remember, he was transition tagged by the Bengals. It really doesnt keep us from getting Franks at all.
VABills Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 That has to be the plan here. I dont see anyway that TD brought in Shelton who is a downgrade at LT to Jennings to play LT. 248062[/snapback] He is equal in skill, not a downgrade, and is less injury prone than Jennings. Overall this is an upgrade at LT.
Ozymandius Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 sigh... and Mike Williams ISN'T a downgrade at LT?
VABills Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Another take on Shelton vs. Jennings. Jennings according to this is Adequate starter. While Shelton is Above average starter. According to my dictionary, Above average is better than adequate. http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/teams/player_bio.asp...ngs&hubName=BUF http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/teams/player_bio.asp...350&hubname=ARI
Coach Tuesday Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 sigh... and Mike Williams ISN'T a downgrade at LT? 248071[/snapback] MW is an upgrade in terms of run blocking, wherever you put him. And I would posit that he was more consistent overall as a pass protector than Jonas was this past year.
d_wag Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 He is equal in skill, not a downgrade, and is less injury prone than Jennings. Overall this is an upgrade at LT. 248069[/snapback] it's not like shelton doesn't come with his own injury concerns....... he missed more games then jennings did last year.......is this a new trend? could be........
PIZ Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 JJ---resign at LT MW---LG New Center or Teague CV---RG LS---RT
obie_wan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 JJ---resign at LT MW---LG New Center or Teague CV---RG LS---RT 248098[/snapback] you got it right. no way is Shelton is an upgrade to JJ at LT. The only issue with JJ is staying on the field, not his talent.
VABills Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 it's not like shelton doesn't come with his own injury concerns....... he missed more games then jennings did last year.......is this a new trend? could be........ 248094[/snapback] Shelton played in 12 games last year, Jonas only played in 14. This was with Green being a jerk to him and Shelton coming off an bad ankle injury. Shelton is a lot more durable then Jennings ever will be.
d_wag Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Shelton played in 12 games last year, Jonas only played in 14. This was with Green being a jerk to him and Shelton coming off an bad ankle injury. Shelton is a lot more durable then Jennings ever will be. 248105[/snapback] i'm not convinced.........shelton showed up to camp fat and out of shape, which likely contributed to his injury.......if he does it again, he will likely get injured again......... jennings, on the other hand, didn't pack on pounds in the off-season, started all but 2 games, and showed his toughness.......
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I think that LJS' potential with a guy like JMac is higher. I mean, who's he had coaching him in AZ?
Like A Mofo Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Is there a way the Bills can keep BOTH, let Pat walk, and draft a Center to replace Teague?
The Quebecer Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 What about this line? LT, LJ Shelton (6'6", 335) (6 years) (Trade/TH) LG, MW (6'6", 360) (3 years) C, Teague (6'5", 300) (7 years) RG, Villarial (6'3", 318) (9 years) RT, Stockar McDougle (6'6", 335) (5 years) (FA) (last year salary:535000$, has played all 16 games the past 2 years) Now that would be something! Later, Pat
Like A Mofo Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 What about this line? LT, LJ Shelton (6'6", 335) (6 years) (Trade/TH) LG, MW (6'6", 360) (3 years) C, Teague (6'5", 300) (7 years) RG, Villarial (6'3", 318) (9 years) RT, Stockar McDougle (6'6", 335) (5 years) (FA) (last year salary:535000$, has played all 16 games the past 2 years) Now that would be something! Later, Pat 248283[/snapback] Id sign off on that as a fan no doubt!!
1billsfan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Jennings is overrated and he's not going to get close to the money he's seeking in free agency. I think he has a Bledsoe complex in that he values himself way higher than the way the rest of the NFL sees him. I want the Bills to resign Pat Williams and let Jennings walk. PW has always wanted to be a Bill his whole career. He's been a dominating DT and it seems he'd be willing to deal with the Bills. On the other hand, Jennings used to talk and talk about how he'd eventually become a Falcon and he apparently wants the Bills to overpay through the nose to retain him. Adios Jonas.
FTW_BillsFan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 That has to be the plan here. I dont see anyway that TD brought in Shelton who is a downgrade at LT to Jennings to play LT. That doesnt make sense when you make a comment like "we werent good enough on offense". I doesnt make sense to then dowgrade at LT, the most important T position. Many think Shelton is a dowgrade including ESPN who ranked Jennings WAY above Shelton as far as grading. Yes, the guy is a project at this point but with JMac I think he can be very very good. I still would rather follow the pay train here and stick Williams at LT and Shelton at RT. One thing I like about Shelton is his size 6' 6" 335, and his contract, the TRavis trade works out to only eat into our cap by around 2 mill (3 mill for Shelton - TRavis 1 mill = 2 mill). That very cheap for a guy with upside and a T. Next is our LG spot and I think this is where we spend most of our cash. If Mike Wahle is released, I think they grab him, if not it could be a younger guy like Coleman o rmaybe the draft in David Baas. Dont rule out Bubba Franks being a Bill, the transition tag only mean the Pack has the right to match, and they get NO compensation. This is how we got Takeo Spikes remember, he was transition tagged by the Bengals. It really doesnt keep us from getting Franks at all. 248062[/snapback] Yea, but we had to 'break the bank' to get Spikes from Cinc. We really frontloaded the contract to make the deal bad for Cinc and let him go. We would have to do the same for BFranks. If we just gave him a normal TE contract, GB would then just sign him to it. The contract would have to be a blockbuster for GB not to match. Is BFranks worth it? Doubtful.
d_wag Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Yea, but we had to 'break the bank' to get Spikes from Cinc. We really frontloaded the contract to make the deal bad for Cinc and let him go. 248324[/snapback] spikes cap hit in '03 was only 2.5M the deal is backloaded, not frontloaded.........
FTW_BillsFan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Was there a big signing bonus then? I thought I remembered the reasoning why Cinc didn't choose to sign was the cap hit or a big signing bonus that would have crippled Cinc chances to sign others. If not, sorry. Either way, you have to put something into the contract to become a 'poison pill' that GB doesn't want to swallow to get BF away from GB.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 JJ---resign at LT MW---LG New Center or Teague CV---RG LS---RT 248098[/snapback] How do you make this idea work capwise. the current MW cap hit is either $6.3 or $9.3 in 05 depending on who you believe. For this decision is does not matter at even $6.3 is above the OL average cap hit for the top 10 OL salaries and a couple of million above what the so overpaid Ruben got at guard that the Bills cut him with no cap advantage to the whatsoever. By moving MW to guard the Bills necessitate a double hit on JP by needing to reduce his cap hit in line with what a guard receives (probably impossible as a good guard like CV has a cap hit of $2.99 million) and such a move not only necessitates a draconian cap hit for MW (virtually assured by the going rate for a pedestruian LT like a Clifton or a Petitgout being a $5 million annual salary though I suspect the market will allow us to hardball JJ down) but destroys his LT salary ability for the future. If I am MW coming off a much improved season from his minicamp debacles, I force the Bills to either honor their contract or cut me and come into the market which has few LT takers but as a talent probably more highly regarded than JJ due to my lofty draft position, my improvement in the last 1/2 to 3/4 of last season and a rap that explains any poor early development with my grandma who raised me death last spring (which taught me how to be a professional as evidenced by my play toward the end of last season), having Vinky and Ruel as my initial coaches, and actually being more experienced until CV came in than my partner Pacillo who was next to me. I don't think you move MW to guard at all as his play on the field does not suggest this is a good spot for him. He gave up oo many sacks (particularly in his second year) but this was not to the edge rushers you are moving him away from but actually mentally he and Pacillo were totally confused by stunts with edge rushers coming inside and DTs looping outside and Pacillo and MW standing over a prone Bledsoe with looks that said I thought you had him. Folks seem caught up with MW's size to comclude he has a problem with edge rushers when I simply did not see this as the case. MW actually got his lofty draft position because he demonstrated great footwork and agility for a man his size in college where he guarded the blind side of a left-handed QB and Combine workouts such as the shuttle run. Themove of MW inside can't be totally disregarded as JMac himself made this threat to MW as part of the carrots and sticks attitude adjustment they made on him last year which seemed to work quite well. After the JMac threat MW turned his RT game around, and actually was given a gameball by the coaches in one of the couple sackless Bledsoe games. I think the main folks fooled by the LG threat were thankfully MW who responded like a teammate and unfortunately ICE and a few other TSW posters who bought these words even though field of play results make no sense to make this move. The best on the field move for the Bills would be to leave him at RT where another year of JMac adult leadership and CV to his side might well heklp his advance to the level dictated by his draft spot. However, the cap situation, his draft spot and slotted salary and the opening we have at LT makes it most likely as far as I see that MW wil get a good long look at LT this minicamp. I hope he is up to it because his non-play at the last minicamp does not dictate this, but the cap does.
d_wag Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Was there a big signing bonus then? I thought I remembered the reasoning why Cinc didn't choose to sign was the cap hit or a big signing bonus that would have crippled Cinc chances to sign others. If not, sorry. Either way, you have to put something into the contract to become a 'poison pill' that GB doesn't want to swallow to get BF away from GB. 248340[/snapback] yea, of course there was a big signing bonus, but cincy let him go because he didn't want to play for them.......marvin, fresh on the job, was on this kick that "if you don't want to be a bengal, we don't want you"......... i think your over-estimating green bay's cap position.......they will likely be replacing both starting guards and their defense needs tons of work.......with limited cap dollars, it will be tough for them to retain franks even if the contract he is offered by a suitor is reasonably backloaded........if they match a "market value" offer for franks, they're defense will struggle again because they won't have the room to upgrade that as well........ john tait's contract last year is a good example of a real "poison pill" deal........
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