John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 For the life of me I cannot understand why people are excited about this trade possibility. Shelton is a career underachiever who will replace Jennings? Aren't we always complaining about line play and the need to upgrade? This is a step backwards folks... TH is a proven and successful player. Shelton? How often do you all see a reasonably priced LT get cut or traded on the cheap? There can be no doubt that our line, if he is earmarked for LT, will take a big step in the wrong direction. The only hope I have if this trade goes thru is if the brain trust have determined that MW is ready for LT, and Shelton plays RT. 248036[/snapback] - Shelton's performance is getting a bad rap here....they guy has been a starter for them for a while. He is a dominating run blocker and he is pretty good in pass protection. You put a quality LG next to him and a good OL coach (which we have) and this guy could end up being very good for us. - The best we were going to get for Travis Henry was a 3rd round pick....whith that we MIGHT get a offensive linemen that would be a player for us in a couple of years.....we have the chance to get a starter NOW. - His price tag is right...it allows us to address LG in a big way..... It is a good trade....and it sends Henry out of the division
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I agree. It's not like the Bills need to create cap space at this time. 248133[/snapback] Actually the Bills do need cap space at this time. TD did a very good job getting us out of cap hell quickly with some draconian but necssary cut his first year (unfortunately coupled with some dumb extensions of giving raises to, then cutting, abnd then needing Henry Jones and Holocek through bad assessment of Raion Hill and bad luck with Cowart), through negotiating some great deals with Pro Bowlers Spikes and Adams, taking advatage of the financial miscues of Henry, and recognizing that the draft is at best a tool and not the centerpiece of building a winner as shown by his nifty trading of future 1st round picks for immediate needs (the payoff of Bledsoe at the gate after a 3-13 season and getting Losman when he needed training anyway and spending a future draft pick in a draft weak at QB). However, his work has been good for dealing with the cap debacle created by Butler going for it all (probably the correct thing for him to do at the time, but he did it badly mishandling the initial Flutie and RJ contracts) and we are roughly 15th in the league in cap dollars with the Titans already starting the charge of announcing some very good players will be cap casualties. The NFL is a league which apes success and for now the Pats have shown the way to build a TEAM by loading up on cap casualties who were key to the 2001 SB and FA choices like Rodney Harrison who have set the tone for this team on the field. The draft has been important to them, but it was 6th round picks like Brady rather than 1st round picks like Seymour who sat out the end of his season who were their big draft acqusitions. Our cap situation is tough becuase the cut of Bledsoe likely made it worse. He may go down in history of having his accelerated bonuss when traded or cut having diminished two teams. His trade to the Bills probably played a critical role in the Pats missing the playoffs completely in 2002 as the accelerated Bledsoe cap hit made it impossible for them to shop the cap casualty market with any aggrssion and the cut was bookended by tow SB wins. The deadspace from the Bill cu of Bledsoe does leave us with $2.2 million more cap room than if we would have honored his contract, but that limits us to this amount to sign 1 and probably two QBs as Matthews has said 2004 was probably his last year as a player. We are going to likely have to see the Bledsoe cut reduce our cap room if we sign a QB with some achievement or instead will have to go the Batch/MaMachon/Kordelia route for our #2 unless we get more cap room. Even this may not be enough if we pay MW what we agreed to pay him (he needs to be restrutured regardless of whether you count his cap hit as $6.3 million (roughly Bills' Daily) or $9.3 million (Clumpy's Billszone site) he has not produced at the level of a tiop 10 OL player (average $6 million cap hit) or if you sign JJ at the going rate (a salary of at least $5 million for pedestrian LT talent. The Bills need all the cap room we can get. d ag is wrong in the post you cited that restructing Shelton gives us long-term cap issues. A simple restructuring which converts one year of his base salary minus the NFL minimum for a 6 year player would give him an immediate check for $2.6 ish million and give us a prorate increas of $500K for four years. Even if he were so bad you cut him after this season deadspace is always bad but $2 million is less than half the deadspace we are absorbing due to the Bledsoe cut and if you wait until 6/1 2006 you can make it a negligible 500K in deadspace and manage the $1.5 million deadspace in 2006. Signing an extending Shelton is quite doable as his cap hit can easily be reduced to the same level Henry counts against the 2005 cap.
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 No its not. That's where I seem to disagree with the rest of you. Putting Shelton at LT is a big step backwards. Spin it anyway you want, but Denny Green is nobody's fool. Servicable LTs with low salaries are not floating around on the waiver wire, or being traded for 2nd or 3rd round picks. Not even in this day of salary cap purges. This is not about Travis, its about the regressing of the OL. I don't care if it is supposedly our best deal. That thought should have all of you just as concerned as I am. 248312[/snapback] Well is it a backwards step if he is slightly worse then Jennings but due to his salary we know have the ability to get a good LG.... It is addition by subtraction my fellow bills brethren
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Clement was the RG most of the year. He was moved to RT when Shelton went down the last 2 games. The depth chart is Greens way of sticking it to Shelton even more. If you had ever seen the guy play, he is great at run blocking, and against power pass rushers. He stuggles with the speed guys, but a good chip from a running back or TE on the outside will slow them down enough for LJ to get hands on him. And don't worry. With JP's mobility, he'll never be sacked.
VABills Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 And don't worry. With JP's mobility, he'll never be sacked. 248463[/snapback] I have read that before.
IDBillzFan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 And lost in all of this is the look on TH's face as you can read his mind: "Arizona? You're sending me to ARI-FREAKING-ZONA?!?!? Well...at least I'll be the starter."
justnzane Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Well, we can safely say bye bye to Jonas. I am all for getting Buckhalter for backup RB
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Clement was the RG most of the year. He was moved to RT when Shelton went down the last 2 games. The depth chart is Greens way of sticking it to Shelton even more. If you had ever seen the guy play, he is great at run blocking, and against power pass rushers. He stuggles with the speed guys, but a good chip from a running back or TE on the outside will slow them down enough for LJ to get hands on him. 248370[/snapback] VA brings up a good point...... That is why the trade makes sense....most of the time Shelton will be able to hold his own.....and since his salary is VERY managable for a Left Tackle you can go ahead and bring in a quality TE who can help him out with the Jason Taylor types........ Of course....I expect to be seeing the bills run...A LOT..next year and that is Shelton's strong point
GG Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 And lost in all of this is the look on TH's face as you can read his mind: "Arizona? You're sending me to ARI-FREAKING-ZONA?!?!? Well...at least I'll be the starter." 248515[/snapback] You must have the advanced ouija board. My board's reading of Henry's mind: "Tell me again about the chickens and the rabbits in Arizona, George."
IDBillzFan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 You must have the advanced ouija board. My board's reading of Henry's mind: "Tell me again about the chickens and the rabbits in Arizona, George." 248533[/snapback]
AKC Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Seems like the Yin/Yang on Shelton runs like this: Yin- Very solid in run blocking, with superior skills at the point of attack Good in pass pro when his head's in the game Yang- Not a great run blocker in space Has lapses in pass pro when he loses interest Undisciplined in training and weight management The one thing that might arguably jump out is that his attitude difficulties seem to make him a Denny Green type of player- or at least the type Green has taken pride in rehabbing in the past. There's another way to look at it though, and that is that Green plays a deep threat offense that gains its running advantage off the strength of it's pass protection and passing effectiveness. Shelton sounds like a guy who would be far more effective in a play action offense like ours, a run first instead of pass first O. In fact, the funny thing is Green would probably be best suited with a LT who was superior in pass pro with less emphasis on run blocking skills- say someone like Jonas Jennings! For the Bills, adding a Tackle who can consistently control the left edge (something we haven't had in over a decade) should propel Mr. McGahee to Pro-Bowl starter after the '05 season.
obie_wan Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 No its not. That's where I seem to disagree with the rest of you. Putting Shelton at LT is a big step backwards. Spin it anyway you want, but Denny Green is nobody's fool. Servicable LTs with low salaries are not floating around on the waiver wire, or being traded for 2nd or 3rd round picks. Not even in this day of salary cap purges. This is not about Travis, its about the regressing of the OL. I don't care if it is supposedly our best deal. That thought should have all of you just as concerned as I am. 248312[/snapback] agree, bu let's hope that TD signs JJ and plays Shelton at RT or LG. although I don't see him as a LT, he would definitely give Bills leverage to get favorable restructcure from MW
Alaska Darin Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 For the life of me I cannot understand why people are excited about this trade possibility. Shelton is a career underachiever who will replace Jennings? Aren't we always complaining about line play and the need to upgrade? This is a step backwards folks... TH is a proven and successful player. Shelton? How often do you all see a reasonably priced LT get cut or traded on the cheap? There can be no doubt that our line, if he is earmarked for LT, will take a big step in the wrong direction. The only hope I have if this trade goes thru is if the brain trust have determined that MW is ready for LT, and Shelton plays RT. 248036[/snapback] Kenneth Davis was a career underachiever before coming to Buffalo. There are many examples of players performing better with a change of scenery. This guy is worth the chance for the money he's being paid and the price of the offer (if true).
Bill from NYC Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Well is it a backwards step if he is slightly worse then Jennings but due to his salary we know have the ability to get a good LG.... It is addition by subtraction my fellow bills brethren 248455[/snapback] John, you are totally correct! AKC pointed out out how Guards are becoming more important due to the wave of 300 lb plus monster DTs. If the Bills could land a top (CV) quality LG, and McNally can go to work on Shelton, the Bills could be very close to having a dominant OL! Good post Bro!
AKC Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 John, you are totally correct! AKC pointed out out how Guards are becoming more important due to the wave of 300 lb plus monster DTs. If the Bills could land a top (CV) quality LG, and McNally can go to work on Shelton, the Bills could be very close to having a dominant OL! Good post Bro! 248769[/snapback] When looking for quality OGs this off-season it might be prudent to watch the movement from another NFL small market cold weather city ;-)
Alaska Darin Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 When looking for quality OGs this off-season it might be prudent to watch the movement from another NFL small market cold weather city ;-) 248801[/snapback] You think we can actually afford him? He's gonna garner alot of interest.
AKC Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 You think we can actually afford him? He's gonna garner alot of interest. 248803[/snapback] Wahle will surely get interest, but I happen to think they have two quality OGs and both are UFAs. The fact that they're over the cap by 3Mill or so might make it difficult for them to offer much to Rivera on the other side and he might end up going FA just to get a market rate for a good OG.
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I actually think there are as many as FIVE OG's that would be upgrades to the bills.......
d_wag Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I actually think there are as many as FIVE OG's that would be upgrades to the bills....... 248970[/snapback] 5? oh, there are plenty more then that........ wahle, rivera, mayberry, andruzzi, anderson, demulling, vincent, dixon, garza, and hamilton........... not to mention a good draft for guards that has a couple immediate starter caliber guys in it......... plenty of options -- TD has no excuse not to upgrade the LG spot.........
AKC Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 5? oh, there are plenty more then that........ wahle, rivera, mayberry, andruzzi, anderson, demulling, vincent, dixon, garza, and hamilton........... not to mention a good draft for guards that has a couple immediate starter caliber guys in it......... plenty of options -- TD has no excuse not to upgrade the LG spot......... 248981[/snapback] I can't see Hamilton as a fit in our system at all simply because of his dimunitive size and Garza, Mayberry and Anderson in '04 were seives in pass protection compared to the top OGs. DeMulling is a big contributor in the Indy offense because he's got such good technique in pass protection, IMO our real need though is for a power run blocker first- a guy along the lines of CVillarial. I think you get that with either of the Green Bay OGS and Andruzzi is tough to argue against: Dixon is the wild card- does he have the gas left in his tank to perform at the level he has for 11 seasons? He seems to be getting bigger every year and that will no doubt catch up with him. Question is will it be in '05?
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