Kirby Jackson Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) i don't think Tasker is arguing Sammys talent and potential. He's talking about not only his ability to stay in the field but his ability to take over games like a true superstar. So far, Sammy hasn't shown that.Here is a chart comparing the top receivers in the league over the last 9 weeks: http://i0.wp.com/nysportsbiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/WR-EXCEL-SHEET.png?resize=768%2C223 His performance stands right there with anyone despite less opportunities. Tasker has an agenda that Jauronimo has pretty much destroyed him for. He says lots of nothing and think that the "lots" makes it substance. Edited July 12, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Can't wait to see Woodsy shut a lot of people up this year. me too, but we're still gona be talking
White Linen Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 Stevie was fun to watch and because of his ability to connect with the fans it wasn't hard to have affinity for him. Stevie lacked enough speed to overcome his inability to run great routes. He overcame the lack of physical talent and route running by just relentlessly competing. Stevie is the type of receiver that needs the QB to keep looking his way and give him time to figure out a way to get open vs just being able to get past the DB or burning him by running a great route. The help this team needs can't give Stevie that type of attention and time. For these reasons he wouldn't be a receiver that would have helped this team since drafting Watkins. This team needs a WR to take advantage of the attention Sammy gets, run perfect routes/read the defense and have good hands to keep making the defense pay for devoting too much to Watkins. Then when the defense relaxes on Watkins because he's effective - let Sammy burn them. That's not Stevie! Not at all. Trading up for a WR is never a good idea. You can get good WRs all over the draft. You underestimate our 23 year old star receiver.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 12, 2016 Posted July 12, 2016 This was Whaley's least talked about moves in recent years, but it keeps coming back to me while thinking about the Bills' struggle to find a solid #2 WR who is consistent. Was the trio of Watkins, SJ, and Woods not going to work in 2014? Was there something to the idea that it was "Sammy's team" after the 14 draft and SJ had to go? Was a conditional 4th rounder really worth a receiver who just finished the year as the #1? Would you feel better in the 2016 offseason with SJ on this team? This is not difficult to understand. Stevie thrived in Gailey's Erhardt-Perkins offense which taught "beat your man, get to the spot". He had some chemistry with Fitz, along with some drops and some miscues that became INTs. Marrone wanted to run a WCO with precise timing and routes. In that offense, Stevie was notably less successful in 2013 (about half the receptions and yardage), and had a poor catch percentage (receptions/targets). Woods had about the same, while Scott Chandler (!!!) led the team in receiving yards. So they traded Stevie off while he still had trade value. He didn't do much in SF and more tellingly, not much more while in Sandy Ego with a real QB throwing to him even after that team set hardline goals for him of losing weight and shaping up (though his catch % did improve markedly).
SinceThe70s Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie was the only receiver that had chemistry with Fitztragic. He literally bombed out once he left Buffalo. I think his shelf-life was exactly 4 decent years. Whaley traded him right when there was a little value. I truly don't think he'd still even be on the team this year. +1 SJ just doesn't run discipline routes and that was a thorn in the side of our OC's and QB's after Fitz SJ proved how good of a WR he was when he was traded. Do not miss him and the trade was fine +2
BuffaloBill Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie was the only receiver that had chemistry with Fitztragic. He literally bombed out once he left Buffalo. I think his shelf-life was exactly 4 decent years. Whaley traded him right when there was a little value. I truly don't think he'd still even be on the team this year. Thank you... I just don't get the Stevie love around here ... He was not nearly as good as some want to portray.
Freddie's Dead Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie Johnson was a good receiver. He also choked at the worst possible moments. His biggest sin though? His inability to take responsibility for his mistakes, stand up, and be a man. Pittsburgh, it was God. Jets? Miscommunication. Atlanta? He wouldn't even answer the question. Compare him to Scott Chandler after the Atlanta game. "It's on me, I have to take care of the ball." Yet the love fest laid on Stevie by the same people that trash Chandler just baffles me. Trading Stevie was addition by subtraction. He was nothing after he left, and this was one deal that the FO got right. I'll be here patiently waiting for the "Freddy Jackson Trade" thread, next. Especially since he was cut.....
Beef Jerky Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 The Bills don't have any struggle to find a #2. They struggled to find a QB.
White Linen Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie Johnson was great to have during the time when we lacked high end talent. That ship has sailed. Wait until we see the 24 through 28 year old version of Sammy Watkins. What he did in the NFL as a 21 and 22 year old is ridiculous.
Thurmal34 Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Watkins led all NFL WRs in fantasy points per opportunity last year. https://twitter.com/pff_fantasy/status/752527411330355204
Kirby Jackson Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie Johnson was great to have during the time when we lacked high end talent. That ship has sailed. Wait until we see the 24 through 28 year old version of Sammy Watkins. What he did in the NFL as a 21 and 22 year old is ridiculous. Should the Bills pick up his 5th year option?
White Linen Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Should the Bills pick up his 5th year option? Haha, tough call. As some other posters have said - you can find a WR of Watkins ability anywhere in the draft. What does it even mean to "I won't support the trade"?
Kirby Jackson Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Haha, tough call. As some other posters have said - you can find a WR of Watkins ability anywhere in the draft. What does it even mean to "I won't support the trade"? I think that it basically means "I disagreed with it at the time because I didn't understand the special talent that he was. Regardless of what he does in his career I will make it my life's mission to try to prove that the trade was a mistake. That's much better than admitting that I am wrong. The Bills could have gotten Justin Gilbert and Cam Erving and are stuck with Watkins." Edited July 13, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
eball Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie Johnson was great to have during the time when we lacked high end talent. That ship has sailed. Wait until we see the 24 through 28 year old version of Sammy Watkins. What he did in the NFL as a 21 and 22 year old is ridiculous. What should we expect from the 23 year old version?
machine gun kelly Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie was the only receiver that had chemistry with Fitztragic. He literally bombed out once he left Buffalo. I think his shelf-life was exactly 4 decent years. Whaley traded him right when there was a little value. I truly don't think he'd still even be on the team this year. Homey don't play that. Well said bud. He's crapped put since leaving Buffalo. I'm thankful for his service while here, but Whaley made the right call.
GunnerBill Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 I think this is a worthwhile thread and discussion and a trade worth reconsidering 2 years down the line from when it was made. There are a few factors at play for me here. My gut feeling is that they could have maybe waited another year and tried to give their 2nd year QB as many weapons as possible in 2014 (I am not suggesting that would have saved EJ from failure, far from it, but from the philosophy of what they were trying to build why not have Sammy, Stevie and Woods)? However, we must also consider the following: - Stevie's production had dropped off dramatically in 2013 with Fitz gone; - There had been disquiet between him and Doug Marrone in 2013 around whether Stevie was "buying in". Then it is fair to ask whether he would have been comfortable playing second fiddle to Watkins, as he undoubtedly would have had to. I personally struggle to see that and long term I don't think it could ever have worked. If they had kept him in 2014 my guess is they were cutting him after that season as his value would have sunk lower and we saw in 2014 that he was not a fit in a Greg Roman offense that requires precise route running from its receivers. To me any debate about whether Sammy has shown the capacity to be "exceptional" is a mystery... it is an obvious yes for me. Is there still a little bit of a question about his ability to stay healthy (not his ability to play through injuries which he has proved, but his ability to stay at or close to 100% for the majority of a tough NFL season)? I think there is and that is fair to ask. I also want to dispel the idea that you could have got a receiver anywhere in that draft to do what Sammy does. That was a draft with 2 bona fide blue chip WR prospects (Watkins and Evans) and one who had special traits but was a little more raw (OBJ). The others, whilst good in their own right..... Landry, Benjamin, Robinson etc... are not the all round elite level talents of Evans, Watkins and OBJ. I will make a prediction - by the end of their rookie deals there will be no doubt - Sammy Watkins will be the #1 receiver from that terrific receiver draft class. Some people will never get over the trade as a point of principle... but they will not be able to question the player we acquired.
BarleyNY Posted July 13, 2016 Posted July 13, 2016 Stevie Johnson: 10 games, 45 Rec, 497 Yds, 3 TDs, 1 Fum Robert Woods: 14 games, 47 Rec, 552 Yds, 3 TDs, 2 Fum I'm not sure how anyone can say that the first guy listed above sucks and wasn't worth keeping, but the second one deserves to be our #2 WR.
Recommended Posts