A Look Back at the Stevie Johnson Trade

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

Stevie was a one season wonder, he wasn't that good

[eball]

My theory is simple. Roman doesn't think Tyrod is that good. I can't see any other logical explanation.

 

That'll happen when your eyes are shut.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

My theory is simple. Roman doesn't think Tyrod is that good. I can't see any other logical explanation.

Roman always takes weight off of his quarterback. He knows no other way to call a game. The reason Rex and Roman are together is they share a philosophy.

 

What I don't understand is how Tyrod can blossom into greatness when it isn't asked of him. How do you learn to carry a team when your coach is not capable of playing it that way? Someone like Sean Payton can win with the power run and can win an entirely different way when it is needed.

 

I think if Tyrod has a chance to be the next cam Newton we won't see it until he gets away from Roman's training wheel passing attack. To achieve greatness he'll need a coach willing and able to push him and provide the opportunity. Imo

[eball]

Roman always takes weight off of his quarterback. He knows no other way to call a game. The reason Rex and Roman are together is they share a philosophy.

 

What I don't understand is how Tyrod can blossom into greatness when it isn't asked of him. How do you learn to carry a team when your coach is not capable of playing it that way? Someone like Sean Payton can win with the power run and can win an entirely different way when it is needed.

 

I think if Tyrod has a chance to be the next cam Newton we won't see it until he gets away from Roman's training wheel passing attack. To achieve greatness he'll need a coach willing and able to push him and provide the opportunity. Imo

 

Roman doesn't strike me as a stubborn, inflexible guy. As Kirby stated above, Tyrod is likely the best pro QB Roman has ever coached, and if he has now seen the progression of Tyrod's abilities and trusts him, I would have to think he will loosen the reins a bit. At least that's what I hope.

[BarleyNY]

Roman doesn't strike me as a stubborn, inflexible guy. As Kirby stated above, Tyrod is likely the best pro QB Roman has ever coached, and if he has now seen the progression of Tyrod's abilities and trusts him, I would have to think he will loosen the reins a bit. At least that's what I hope.

I agree. But Taylor has to do his part to make that happen. He has to prove he can shoulder the load as well as protect himself. I can't fault Roman for keeping the reins tight last season. Here's hoping he progresses. But it's also why I've been harping on getting help at WR and TE. This receiving corps isn't good enough to really help TT succeed as a passer.

Edited July 14, 2016 by BarleyNY

[thebandit27]

Okay Tasker's Ghost, 3rd and final chance to comment on Sammy's performance when put into context against his peers:

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-adam-harstad-on-sammy-watkins/

http://nysportsbiz.com/2016/01/04/sammy-watkins-arguably-nfls-top-wr-2nd-half-season/

 

You've ignored the previous 2 times I've posted it, so I won't hold my breath.

 

Bottom line: on a per-target basis when normalized for how often teams pass vs run, Sammy is as good as anyone not named Antonio Brown.

 

As to Stevie, $7M/year for a guy that would've been their #2 option in the passing game wasn't practical back when he was traded; now it's becoming the norm (see Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu).

Anything TG?

 

NOTE: I accidentally deleted the original post about 2 seconds ago--stupid iPhone

Edited July 14, 2016 by thebandit27

[Big Turk]

If you look at the stark difference in catch percentage over the last 2 seasons it tells you a lot about the poor QB play and him as a #1...his catch percentage with the Bills was about 58%. The last 2 seasons it's been about 70%. Better QB play and drawing the #3 CB instead of #1 CB gives a lot better opportunity.

[justnzane]

The trade was a wash effectively as it was SJ for Seantrel and Brown. Since that point Stevie has been putting up #3 receiver numbers, while we got some service out of Seantrel.

 

The Bills could have used Stevie as a #2, but in the end I think he was done when Fitzy got pushed out of Buffalo by Buddy Nix

[Luxy312]

Stevie spent more time figuring out what his next end zone celebration was going to be than he did working on making his hands and routes better. Happy to see him go, and don't perceive him to be a major loss at all. There's just too many memories of him and cases of the "drops" when the team needed him to make a catch. Reminds me a lot of another receiver named Peerless Price. A few good seasons with the Bills and then a complete flame out with his next team.

[eball]

I agree. But Taylor has to do his part to make that happen. He has to prove he can shoulder the load as well as protect himself. I can't fault Roman for keeping the reins tight last season. Here's hoping he progresses. But it's also why I've been harping on getting help at WR and TE. This receiving corps isn't good enough to really help TT succeed as a passer.

 

I dunno...Sammy, Woods, Clay, Shady...that's a lot of talented "help" for TT. I realize you said WR but I think you have to look at the whole group of skill players.

[BarleyNY]

I dunno...Sammy, Woods, Clay, Shady...that's a lot of talented "help" for TT. I realize you said WR but I think you have to look at the whole group of skill players.

I do like the RB roster but I guess you have a much higher opinion of the WR and TE roster, top to bottom, than I do. The right side of the OL and the help a TE will likely have to give the RT is a concern to me as well.

[Malazan]

Stevie hasn't done anything since. His career was having a good chemistry with Fitzpatrick.

[billsfan89]

They seemed to get rid of him right as his production fell off. 2013 the last year he was here he didn't the best year. 597 yards in 12 games with 3 TDs. Even had he played the last 4 games it is likely that he would have fallen well below 1000 yards. They got a 4th rounder which is a decent return. In 2014 was the 49ers he had 35 receptions for 435 yards and 3 TD's in 13 games. His production picked up a bit in San Diego with 45 receptions and 497 yards with 3 TD's in 10 games. But he hasn't regained that 1000 yard a season form he had from 2010 to 2012.

 

I do think that the Bills certainly could have used him as a slot receiver. Certainly think he would have preformed well as a slot player esp last season with Tyrod who could have used a shifty receiver like Stevie. No matter what though I think injury caught up with Stevie and his play would have declined. Still I think had the team had him last year Stevie would have give them 55-65 receptions 600-700 yards and 4-5 TD's out of the slot. Which is certainly more than they got out of Hogan last year.

[Agent 91]

 

For two 1st-round picks and a 4th he's a waste.

 

But we cannot simply step over his injury issues or the fact that he shines at times and disappears at others with equal frequency.

 

As I said, it wasn't the "second half" last season, it was the last six games. Three of which, including his two biggest, were losses. In his first six games he averaged just over 50 ypg with one huge game against the Fins. In the other 5 he averaged fewer than 34 ypg.

 

Like I said, he shows up for a half dozen games and then the rest of the time no one knows he's there. Hell, sometimes he isn't as he missed three games entirely. People cite those three games but he played sparingly in a fourth too. That's 25% of games last season he wasn't even around. I expect that number to increase this season.

 

Either way, if he can't pull himself together this season, the team seriously has to consider moving on and finding other options at WR. Right now we have one proven #1, Sammy. With him out it's going to be very interesting. I don't see Woods and whom, Hank, carrying this offense in the passing game. Clay is Clay until further notice, likely another one of Whaley's overhyped acquisitions.

 

Again, Whaley needs to go, his moves are killing this organization.

 

 

You really need to learn how to read. Seriously.

 

If you want to take issue with things that I actually said, great. Otherwise, if you cannot comment on what I actually said contrasted with what I did not say, then I really don't want to discuss anything with you.

 

Get it right or don't comment.

 

Otherwise, Watkins wasn't drafted at the cost of two 1st-rounders and a 4th to merely be a starting WR. We were promised exceptionality, which clearly he has not delivered.

 

No need to comment.

 

 

Those are excuses my friend. Besides, what did you and everyone else say about Watkins, as if it were a given? Remember?

 

He was supposed to merely "get the ball in his hands and he would take care of the rest," remember?

 

Has that happened? Hardly. He's among the worst in his draft class in YAC and not good overall, meaning that that's far from the truth.

 

Otherwise, who's been throwing to Hurns (a what, 7th rounder), Robinson, and Mike Evans the ball? How about Benjamin? Jordan Matthews? Jarvis Landry? You think those guys all have Pro Bowl QBs throwing to them? All were rookies/young/mediocre at best QBs. How come they can succeed to similar levels as Sammy? Most of them don't even start and even fewer are #1s on their teams. None have as many starts besides Evans.

 

It's funny, you cite one other WR that has Eli and ignore the rest.

Your YAC yards point is far and away my BIGGEST gripe. With his skill set i did NOT want nor expect him to be catching bombs. I expected Eric Moulds over the middle tough yard taking a short gain and making it long type play. When he "got his ribs broken by a bad ej throw" i remember thinking wtf was that? Thats was not even a hit he took. I remember thinking. Please dont be that guy. And now in his 3rd year. He has to prove me wrong. Was it you who said you expected 1500 from him? If so i set the SAME EXACT standard. Why is he not capable? Ill wait for a good arguement against it

Oh my God.

We have a mid level starter and a decent backup contrary to belief. So im with you in the notion that QB cant be used as excuse

Crusade is right... What do you think about the Stevie trade? Well Whaley is an idiot, Watkins too fragile and expensive, blah blah blah #1 blah blah.

 

 

Some facts pertinent to the op:

- we have already witnessed SJ13s production in Greg Romans offense. It was not even half of the production of Anquan Bolden.

 

-while SJ13 had three 1000 yard seasons with fitz, he has not gotten anywhere near that production without. (Perhaps it takes a Harvard degree to figure out where the hell he is going)

 

- several independent football coaches and/or players noted his "unique" route running as problematic to their offense

 

 

Imo- getting something for him in trade was worthwhile. I expect this could be his last season based on his production trend.

I honestly think Stevie needs to go where Chan goes. His offense supposedly fit steve like a hand in glove

Given that the Bills made the trade with the Browns to move up in the draft, ask yourself -- would the Bills be better if they'd selected Kahlil Mack and kept SJ; if they'd selected Sammie and kept SJ and let someone else go because of too many $ spent on WRs; or if they did what they did.

 

My preference ALWAYS was that they should have taken Mack. I realize the D was awesome at that point, but a lot of those D players are gone and suddenly they're looking for depth or starters at LB and DE.

 

Mack >>> Watkins

The ONLY reason i didnt want mack was because i think we were coming off a 43 defense and i questioned how good he would be in that type of D. Now that we have been trying to get some sort of 34. Mack should have by all means been the pick

[3rdand12]

If you look at the stark difference in catch percentage over the last 2 seasons it tells you a lot about the poor QB play and him as a #1...his catch percentage with the Bills was about 58%. The last 2 seasons it's been about 70%. Better QB play and drawing the #3 CB instead of #1 CB gives a lot better opportunity.

as i preach, perspective. Thanks for bringing it !

[atlbillsfan1975]

 

We'll just agree to disagree; I think Stevie was always overrated and Woods is underrated. And yes, I think that among the competitors at training camp we'll have a couple of guys emerge who can contribute.

 

 

Again -- Woods was injured for the entire year and gutted it out. Ask 32 GMs right now if they'd rather have Stevie Johnson or Robert Woods as their #2 WR.

They will probably run the ball more given those choices as a #2 receiver.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Stevie Johnson: 10 games, 45 Rec, 497 Yds, 3 TDs, 1 Fum

Robert Woods: 14 games, 47 Rec, 552 Yds, 3 TDs, 2 Fum

 

I'm not sure how anyone can say that the first guy listed above sucks and wasn't worth keeping, but the second one deserves to be our #2 WR.

 

What was Johnson being paid?

What was (and is) Woods being paid?

Stevie was a one season wonder, he wasn't that good

 

That would be why he had 3 consecutive >1000 seasons with Fitz hurling the spheroid in his general direction?

[The Big Cat]

79 catches on 148 targets for 1046 yds and 6 TD's: Stevie Johnson's 2012 season with The Bills (16 starts)

80 catches on 115 targets for 932 yds and 6 TD's: Stevie Johson's last two seasons in SD (23 starts)

125 catches on 248 targets for 2029 yds and 15 TD's: Watkins over the last two seasons (29 starts).

 

The Bills packaged the Stevie pick along with two others in the trade-up for Watson.

 

The Stevie pick was ultimately used on Ibraheim Campbell. The other two picks used to draft Sammy were subsequently used to draft Cameron Erving and Anthony Barr.

 

I guess you could frame it as:

 

Would you rather have Watson from 2014 and 15

 

-OR-

 

Johnson from 2014 and 15, Ibraheim Campbell and either Anthony Barr or Cameron Ervin?

 

I was never a Stevie fan so I'm good with the trade, but yeah, we could have used him in '14 and '15. For sure.

[BarleyNY]

What was Johnson being paid?

What was (and is) Woods being paid?

 

I think I covered this pretty well already, but here goes. SJ is on a 3 year, $10.5M deal. RW is on his 4 year rookie deal at $4.9M. As I said, RW has potential for upside and is cheaper than SJ, but SJ isn't expensive for a WR. There is room and definite need for both on the roster. It is not an either/or situation. I just thought it odd to see people saying that one of those guys sucks and the other is going to be a stud as the #2 this season.

 

One last thing. RW is going into the final season of his rookie deal. This is where he has to earn his next contract.

Edited July 15, 2016 by BarleyNY

[Chandler#81]

I will never forgive him for the Pittsburgh game. Or the Jets game.

This. Good riddance. Yet another reason why Whaley is a keeper.