TT threw most of his INTs vs. this Coverage

[Cover 1]

Here is a video breakdown of TT's interceptions with advanced stats from last season. Like most inexperienced QBs he struggled vs. zone coverage, but showed progress throughout the season.


http://www.cover1.net/2016/07/cover-1-film-room-tyrod-taylors-interceptions/

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by TurnerE

[CommonCents]

While doing all these breakdowns have you noticed any glaring weaknesses in Roman's play calling in the passing game? Greg Bedard and others have been critical of the simplicity Roman used last year with TT. As a fan I just see what works and what does not work on Sundays, I'm curious if you have could better pin point the "simplicity". Is it formations, routes, play calls, reads, spacing of the field?

 

I know Roman spent time with Colin K. in SF, was the play calling similar? I know they ran more read option, but was the passing game lacking? Did they utilize the middle of the field? I'm trying to guage what kind of improvements we can expect this season and if it's in TT's hands?... or is Roman is notorious for reigning in his QB to limit mistakes? Thanks for all the breakdowns, time well spent.

[Cover 1]

While doing all these breakdowns have you noticed any glaring weaknesses in Roman's play calling in the passing game? Greg Bedard and others have been critical of the simplicity Roman used last year with TT. As a fan I just see what works and what does not work on Sundays, I'm curious if you have could better pin point the "simplicity". Is it formations, routes, play calls, reads, spacing of the field?

 

I know Roman spent time with Colin K. in SF, was the play calling similar? I know they ran more read option, but was the passing game lacking? Did they utilize the middle of the field? I'm trying to guage what kind of improvements we can expect this season and if it's in TT's hands?... or is Roman is notorious for reigning in his QB to limit mistakes? Thanks for all the breakdowns, time well spent.

 

I wouldn't say glaring but I do agree it is simpler than most passing games in the NFL. After watching a lot of SF film and film from last year I do think that Roman doesnt have the most diverse route tree. What worries me is that like most modern offenses, the drop of the QB doesnt match the depth of the routes (Trent Dilfer brought that to my attention). Meaning that when the QB takes the snap and takes a 5 step drop the routes arent always in rhythm where he gets rid of it at the top of the drop. Instead, regardless of how deep of the routes are, Taylor hits the top of his drop and is just standing back there waiting for the routes to develop. I analyzed the middle of the field and Romans passing game in a few different articles. If you havent read them take a look and be sure to watch the video:

http://www.cover1.net/2016/03/protecting-tyrod-taylor/

[K-9]

 

I wouldn't say glaring but I do agree it is simpler than most passing games in the NFL. After watching a lot of SF film and film from last year I do think that Roman doesnt have the most diverse route tree. What worries me is that like most modern offenses, the drop of the QB doesnt match the depth of the routes (Trent Dilfer brought that to my attention). Meaning that when the QB takes the snap and takes a 5 step drop the routes arent always in rhythm where he gets rid of it at the top of the drop. Instead, regardless of how deep of the routes are, Taylor hits the top of his drop and is just standing back there waiting for the routes to develop. I analyzed the middle of the field and Romans passing game in a few different articles. If you havent read them take a look and be sure to watch the video:

http://www.cover1.net/2016/03/protecting-tyrod-taylor/

Timing patterns out of the shotgun or pistol aren't practical, imo. I don't even think they can be defined as timing patterns, so i'm interested if Dilfer was referring strictly to drop backs from under center?

 

As for Roman, I think he goes to great lengths to protect young, inexperienced QBs. For example, I think he gave Alex Smith much more free reign in SF vs. Kaepernick when he took over. We saw that last year with TT. Roman was definitely reluctant to have TT test the middle of the field with any frequency, especially in the first half of the year. But as TT showed more command, it seemed Roman allowed him to go to those more congested areas. At least that's the impression I got.

 

And again, thanks for the high-quality analysis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Big Turk]

Unlike most posters, I don't believe that his low INT total was necessarily a good thing...if he is only throwing the ball when the receiver is wide open then he isn't going to have many INTs. What he will have is a lot of plays where things were available that never happened because he didn't take a chance on making the throw.

 

This isn't to say I'm unhappy...I think he exceeded everyone's expectations and has the chance to really grow.

 

I'm just pointing out that statistics can always lie or tell only half the story. Without context, statistics are almost meaningless in a lot of cases.

[Cover 1]

Timing patterns out of the shotgun or pistol aren't practical, imo. I don't even think they can be defined as timing patterns, so i'm interested if Dilfer was referring strictly to drop backs from under center?

 

As for Roman, I think he goes to great lengths to protect young, inexperienced QBs. For example, I think he gave Alex Smith much more free reign in SF vs. Kaepernick when he took over. We saw that last year with TT. Roman was definitely reluctant to have TT test the middle of the field with any frequency, especially in the first half of the year. But as TT showed more command, it seemed Roman allowed him to go to those more congested areas. At least that's the impression I got.

 

And again, thanks for the high-quality analysis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I see what ur saying but timing patterns are still doable. Just bc you are in shotgun doesn't mean that u can't pass on time in rhythm. TT held ball longer than anyone but that is part by design part inexperience reading coverage and part extending the plays. I'm not mad after watching every throw I realized it's not all his fault. In fact it's more on Roman IMO. But with how wel our run game is its smart. Just need defensive help lol. Packaging zone and man beater routes in one play is smart for an inexperienced qb but that also forces a young qb to have to scan the whole field which gives the defenders that much more time to cover the routes. Ie 3x1 WR set. Sammy isolated running a man beater route but defense is in zone so he is covered. By the time TT scans to the 3 WR side those zone defenders can get to their zones. Basically if TT Misreads the coverage pre snap or the defensive picture changes post snap (pats did a ton of that) the timing of the play is off if that makes sense. Edited July 11, 2016 by TurnerE

[Big C]

Unlike most posters, I don't believe that his low INT total was necessarily a good thing...if he is only throwing the ball when the receiver is wide open then he isn't going to have many INTs. What he will have is a lot of plays where things were available that never happened because he didn't take a chance on making the throw.

 

This isn't to say I'm unhappy...I think he exceeded everyone's expectations and has the chance to really grow.

 

I'm just pointing out that statistics can always lie or tell only half the story. Without context, statistics are almost meaningless in a lot of cases.

 

 

This may have been the case, but even in some of the instances in this video he took a chance on some throws and either the defender made a good play or the receivers let the ball bounce off their hands (granted they were high throws). I think TT just did a good job protecting the football most of the time and it didn't really feel like he was uncomfortable or tentative.

[Cover 1]

 

 

This may have been the case, but even in some of the instances in this video he took a chance on some throws and either the defender made a good play or the receivers let the ball bounce off their hands (granted they were high throws). I think TT just did a good job protecting the football most of the time and it didn't really feel like he was uncomfortable or tentative.

Absolutely agree. The low ints/turnovers is a good thing IMO. Especially once u see he context in the video. I found it more interesting about what coverages he struggled against and how teams predominately played cover 3. Which will also explain why we were such a vertical team bc that is a concept that roasts cover 3. Love this stuff!

[John from Riverside]

Unlike most posters, I don't believe that his low INT total was necessarily a good thing...if he is only throwing the ball when the receiver is wide open then he isn't going to have many INTs. What he will have is a lot of plays where things were available that never happened because he didn't take a chance on making the throw.

 

This isn't to say I'm unhappy...I think he exceeded everyone's expectations and has the chance to really grow.

 

I'm just pointing out that statistics can always lie or tell only half the story. Without context, statistics are almost meaningless in a lot of cases.

I agree with this actually

 

I am anticipating TT throwing more int's this year.....but he will be doing it because he is going to be throwing balls where bigger plays can happen

 

I dont think this is a bad thing......I dont want him to go all Gino Smith on us or anything but I also dont want him running as much as he did last year.

[CommonCents]

 

I wouldn't say glaring but I do agree it is simpler than most passing games in the NFL. After watching a lot of SF film and film from last year I do think that Roman doesnt have the most diverse route tree. What worries me is that like most modern offenses, the drop of the QB doesnt match the depth of the routes (Trent Dilfer brought that to my attention). Meaning that when the QB takes the snap and takes a 5 step drop the routes arent always in rhythm where he gets rid of it at the top of the drop. Instead, regardless of how deep of the routes are, Taylor hits the top of his drop and is just standing back there waiting for the routes to develop. I analyzed the middle of the field and Romans passing game in a few different articles. If you havent read them take a look and be sure to watch the video:

http://www.cover1.net/2016/03/protecting-tyrod-taylor/

Perhaps some of that explains the ball being held longer than any other team and being bottom of the league in YAC. If his drop isn't in sync with the routes that eliminates anticipation throws which would cut down on INT's but put us at an overall disadvantage. I asked the question because my feeling is that Roman needs to improve as much or more as TT this season. The leagues rules really lean toward aiding passing attacks and we have an OC who's creativity is better served in the run game. Roman should become friends with Ben McAdoo.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Timing patterns out of the shotgun or pistol aren't practical, imo. I don't even think they can be defined as timing patterns, so i'm interested if Dilfer was referring strictly to drop backs from under center?

 

As for Roman, I think he goes to great lengths to protect young, inexperienced QBs. For example, I think he gave Alex Smith much more free reign in SF vs. Kaepernick when he took over. We saw that last year with TT. Roman was definitely reluctant to have TT test the middle of the field with any frequency, especially in the first half of the year. But as TT showed more command, it seemed Roman allowed him to go to those more congested areas. At least that's the impression I got.

 

And again, thanks for the high-quality analysis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

In the last game of the season tryrod was working the middle a lot. Could have been a preview...

 

As an aside in the op analysis, great stuff on the picks, but I don't think the cover 3 zone was as confusing as it was situational that Tyrod felt he had to force the passes...

 

The other point is while I kinda liked hogan (I know that's an exception to most) I am thankful I will never see that fade route from him again in a bills jersey. Unreal that of the guys they have he was the goal line fade....

Edited July 11, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood

[K-9]

I see what ur saying but timing patterns are still doable. Just bc you are in shotgun doesn't mean that u can't pass on time in rhythm. TT held ball longer than anyone but that is part by design part inexperience reading coverage and part extending the plays. I'm not mad after watching every throw I realized it's not all his fault. In fact it's more on Roman IMO. But with how wel our run game is its smart. Just need defensive help lol. Packaging zone and man beater routes in one play is smart for an inexperienced qb but that also forces a young qb to have to scan the whole field which gives the defenders that much more time to cover the routes. Ie 3x1 WR set. Sammy isolated running a man beater route but defense is in zone so he is covered. By the time TT scans to the 3 WR side those zone defenders can get to their zones. Basically if TT Misreads the coverage pre snap or the defensive picture changes post snap (pats did a ton of that) the timing of the play is off if that makes sense.

Good stuff here and I agree, especially the bold text.

 

All pass plays depend on timing, but timed patterns based on 3, 5, and 7 step drops from snaps under center and matched to receiver steps/depths are an entirely different animal vs. those from shotgun formations. That's all I was trying to say.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Saxum]

Unlike most posters, I don't believe that his low INT total was necessarily a good thing...if he is only throwing the ball when the receiver is wide open then he isn't going to have many INTs. What he will have is a lot of plays where things were available that never happened because he didn't take a chance on making the throw.

 

This isn't to say I'm unhappy...I think he exceeded everyone's expectations and has the chance to really grow.

 

I'm just pointing out that statistics can always lie or tell only half the story. Without context, statistics are almost meaningless in a lot of cases.

 

I agree. When TT was needed to throw a lot his QB rating went down and there are times when you need to be in a shootout. I was in general happy with performance last year but he needs to step up his game if he expects to paid as much as he seems to be desired no matter if SOME who got big contracts on potential got it already.

[3rdand12]

In the last game of the season tryrod was working the middle a lot. Could have been a preview...

 

As an aside in the op analysis, great stuff on the picks, but I don't think the cover 3 zone was as confusing as it was situational that Tyrod felt he had to force the passes...

 

The other point is while I kinda liked hogan (I know that's an exception to most) I am thankful I will never see that fade route from him again in a bills jersey. Unreal that of the guys they have he was the goal line fade....

The passes to Salas showed that Tyrod could use the middle of the field.

Taylor said, we looked at the tape and he kept getting open so i trusted him to be at the right place right time.

Thats the development he need to continue to build upon.

 

Now why Hogan and Tyrod could not gain that synergy is another story.

But you are right. Late in the season Roman and Tyrod may have given us a peek.

Go Bills !

[Cover 1]

In the last game of the season tryrod was working the middle a lot. Could have been a preview...

 

As an aside in the op analysis, great stuff on the picks, but I don't think the cover 3 zone was as confusing as it was situational that Tyrod felt he had to force the passes...

 

The other point is while I kinda liked hogan (I know that's an exception to most) I am thankful I will never see that fade route from him again in a bills jersey. Unreal that of the guys they have he was the goal line fade....

I hear u but if u watch all of the defensive playcalls that TT played against last season u will see that it was usually vs single high safety zone looks primarily cover 3. But that's just what I saw. Teams had trouble playing man vs us bc of our vertical game and the threat of TT escaping the pocket a la Kap vs GB lol.

[ganesh]

 

 

This may have been the case, but even in some of the instances in this video he took a chance on some throws and either the defender made a good play or the receivers let the ball bounce off their hands (granted they were high throws). I think TT just did a good job protecting the football most of the time and it didn't really feel like he was uncomfortable or tentative.

+1

[YoloinOhio]

Sam Monson @pff_sam

Tyrod Taylor had the 5th best interception rate in the NFL despite the 3rd highest average depth of target. That's really hard to do

Edited July 12, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Cover 1]

Sam Monson @pff_sam

Tyrod Taylor had the 5th best interception rate in the NFL despite the 3rd highest average depth of target. That's really hard to do

Is it? Deep passes require less accuracy than short or intermediate passes. Smaller Windows In short and intermediate game. More likely to be intercepted. Edited July 12, 2016 by TurnerE

[YoloinOhio]

Is it? Deep passes require less accuracy than short or intermediate passes. Smaller Windows In short and intermediate game. More likely to be intercepted.

One would think. He followed it up by saying that throwing deep a lot usuall results in a lot of turnovers.

 

Sam Monson

@pff_Sam

 

Tyrod is a really interesting QB. He's great at the stuff that QBs usually struggle to master, but meh at the stuff they usually get early.

 

To put the Taylor INT rate thing in context, the two guys with higher aDots were Palmer and Newton. MVP candidates. 13th + 14th in INT rate

[Cover 1]

See I totally disagree. I believe throwing deep is less likely to be completed and int chances are less likely. But that's just me. Things aren't as congested, more bodies, based on timing, much quicker shorter/med areas.