Williams speech/Alton/Philando/Dallas shootings

[Jauronimo]

 

Thank you for being honest Juror#8 , I can respect that but disagree

He's black and you're satire/sarcasm illiterate.

 

As for me, well this white guy is beginning to worry that the number of negroes being shot by the police is suspiciously high. While I've heard allegations for many years that minorities have less favorable experiences with law enforcement relative to their white counterparts, it wasn't until a few such instances were captured on video that the issue caught my attention. Much like domestic violence, you don't really know that its happening and understand that its a serious problem until you see Ray Rice punching his then fiancé. I find these most recent instances in Baton Rouge and Minnesota particularly concerning. But then again, I am one of the good ones.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jauronimo

[DC Tom]

 

The Gatorman syndrome?

 

No, that's when you stick roofing nails up your nose. Completely different.

[IDBillzFan]

Much like domestic violence, you don't really know that its happening and understand that its a serious problem until you see Ray Rice punching his then fiancé.

 

What happened the past two days is concerning, but if the police in this country were actively out to hunt down and murder blacks, don't you think it would be reported more often?

 

Over the course of a year, you may have a few incidents like this, and yes, they are very bad and typically action is taken immediately to do everything possible to cut down on this.

 

But while we sit here typing about something that happened over the past two days, 10 black people were murdered in Chicago last weekend and 55 more were shot. JUST LAST WEEKEND!

 

Where is the concern? There is none. Why? Because the people who think white cops shooting black people is a problem don't care about the black people getting shot. They care about their political agenda. You see Obama making a speech today? Did he make one about his hometown after 10 blacks were murdered?

 

No.

 

It's a problem, but don't let the race-baiters get your dander up. If they really cared about black people being randomly murdered, they wouldn't wait for a white cop to do it before they start yelling.

[DC Tom]

He's black and you're satire/sarcasm illiterate.

 

As for me, well this white guy is beginning to worry that the number of negroes being shot by the police is suspiciously high.

 

1) You have to account for reporting bias: until relatively recently, police shootings were local news, reported locally; now it's national news because "it's what the people want" and the salaciousness of "racism," first-person social media reporting, and outrage-based reporting. For all we know, whitey's killed at roughly the same per-stop rate, but blacks getting shot are being reported at a greater rate now. But...

 

2) We don't actually know how frequent this is, because no one collects any decent data on police shootings. And until someone does, not only can we not address the problem, we can't even define the problem. We can only address the outrage.

 

You really want to do something? Pressure your Congressman to create a law requiring the reporting of police shootings - their nature, the local investigation thereof, and the resulting findings - to a central authority for collection and analysis. From that, figure out what the ACTUAL problem is, and fix that.

 

'Cause you can't fix "police hate blacks." 'Cause that's not a problem statement, that's just outrage.

[Juror#8]

What happened the past two days is concerning, but if the police in this country were actively out to hunt down and murder blacks, don't you think it would be reported more often?

 

Over the course of a year, you may have a few incidents like this, and yes, they are very bad and typically action is taken immediately to do everything possible to cut down on this.

 

But while we sit here typing about something that happened over the past two days, 10 black people were murdered in Chicago last weekend and 55 more were shot. JUST LAST WEEKEND!

 

Where is the concern? There is none. Why? Because the people who think white cops shooting black people is a problem don't care about the black people getting shot. They care about their political agenda. You see Obama making a speech today? Did he make one about his hometown after 10 blacks were murdered?

 

No.

 

It's a problem, but don't let the race-baiters get your dander up. If they really cared about black people being randomly murdered, they wouldn't wait for a white cop to do it before they start yelling.

When a police officer uses their authority to stop a car and later detain and rape a woman, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That egregiousness is not mitigated by other rapes happening daily.

 

When a police officer uses their authority to get quid pro quo kick backs for community protection lest they allow the riffraff in the community to run wild, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That's not mitigated by other bribery happening hourly.

 

When a police officer takes some off the top when money or property is seized, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That egregiousness is not mitigated by other theft happening by the second.

 

Murder is sin and a horrible thing. Murder under the color of law is particularly egregious because the individuals assigned a community protective function are using their state-sanctioned ability to accost, question, and detain, in order to harm and devastate the community that they're obliged to protect.

 

Doesn't mean that one doesn't care about other lives being lost under different contextualized circumstances in the complex urban environment.

 

Your effort at comparison falls flat on its face.

 

Jauronimo was spot on and astute in his observation.

He's black and you're satire/sarcasm illiterate.

 

As for me, well this white guy is beginning to worry that the number of negroes being shot by the police is suspiciously high. While I've heard allegations for many years that minorities have less favorable experiences with law enforcement relative to their white counterparts, it wasn't until a few such instances were captured on video that the issue caught my attention. Much like domestic violence, you don't really know that its happening and understand that its a serious problem until you see Ray Rice punching his then fiancé. I find these most recent instances in Baton Rouge and Minnesota particularly concerning. But then again, I am one of the good ones.

 

Well said. Edited July 7, 2016 by Juror#8

[IDBillzFan]

When a police officer uses their authority to stop a car and later detain and rape a woman, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That egregiousness is not mitigated by other rapes happening daily.

 

When a police officer uses their authority to get quid pro quo kick backs for community protection lest they allow the riffraff in the community to run wild, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That's not mitigated by other bribery happening hourly.

 

When a police officer takes some off the top when money or property is seized, that's considered particularly egregious.

 

That egregiousness is not mitigated by other theft happening by the second.

 

Murder is sin and a horrible thing. Murder under the color of law is particularly egregious because the individuals assigned a community protective function are using their ability to accost, question, and detain, to harm and devastate the community that they're obliged to protect.

 

Doesn't mean that one doesn't care about other lives being lost under different circumstances in the complex urban environment.

 

Your effort at comparison falls flat on its face.

 

Yeah, pretty much none of this has anything to do with what I wrote. But, y'know, thanks...I guess...for, y'know, whatever it is you're trying to say. It was a good effort.

[Juror#8]

Yeah, pretty much none of this has anything to do with what I wrote. But, y'know, thanks...I guess...for, y'know, whatever it is you're trying to say. It was a good effort.

Yes it does. It's spot on actually. But just to help you out, it specifically takes issue with your third, tenth, and thirteenth sentence(s) which essentially are the predicating points for your little post.

 

Yea I addressed it. I actually ripped your **** to shreds and that caught you off guard because you never thought ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about it that way.

 

Well there you go. Happy Birthday.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Juror#8

[IDBillzFan]

Yes it does. It's spot on actually. But just to help you out, it specifically takes issue with your third, tenth, and thirteenth sentence(s) which essentially are the predicating points for your little post.

 

Yea I addressed it. I actually ripped your **** to shreds and that caught you off guard because you never thought ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about it that way.

 

Well there you go. Happy Birthday.

 

Oh, gee. Another person who somehow thinks ripping someone to shreds on the political leg of an obscure message board dedicated to a crappy professional football team is...y'know...a thing to brag about.

 

I'll bet you're all the rage on MySpace.

 

It's as simple as this, Sparky: Everyone starts yelling when a white cop murders a black suspect, but none of you are yelling when it's a black-on-black murder. The president will call a news conference when a white cop murders a black suspect, but where was he on the 5th of July? In Chicago? Giving a speech about black-on-black murders and the need for us to find ways to get these senseless murders from happening every phucking weekend?

 

No. He was golfing. That's how much he and all the similar posers care about blacks being murdered. It only matters when it fits an agenda.

[Juror#8]

Oh, gee. Another person who somehow thinks ripping someone to shreds on the political leg of an obscure message board dedicated to a crappy professional football team is...y'know...a thing to brag about.

 

I'll bet you're all the rage on MySpace.

 

It's as simple as this, Sparky: Everyone starts yelling when a white cop murders a black suspect, but none of you are yelling when it's a black-on-black murder. The president will call a news conference when a white cop murders a black suspect, but where was he on the 5th of July? In Chicago? Giving a speech about black-on-black murders and the need for us to find ways to get these senseless murders from happening every phucking weekend?

 

No. He was golfing. That's how much he and all the similar posers care about blacks being murdered. It only matters when it fits an agenda.

There is the unveiling of the "sparky." You're predictable. I'm in your head. Remember your post as when you decided to take the thread personal.

 

Yea, it was to shreds. MySpace, jdunderground, reddit, straightdope, whatever ... you said what you said and I wore your **** out. Remember that's why you tuck-tailed and stopped responding to me before. Because I would steady wear your paper mâché, weak ass arguments out. Just because it's almost two years later doesn't change the fact that your **** is still weak.

 

Remember son, I get stronger as the game goes on.

 

You're tryong to make the point that if the true concern was over violence perpetrated against blacks, then activists would be more focused on the copious numbers of murders that occur in the inner city daily as black-on-black violence.. Since activists are [ostensibly] not concerned about that, then the concern about the cop's use of excessive force must be disingenuous.

 

Problem is:

 

A. That's a non sequitur argument.

 

B. I still have folks in the inner city (my dad lives in Seat Pleasant) and there are community organizing efforts, "peace nights," symposiums with rival groups, urban picnic events, gun exchange programs for food vouchers, neighborhood watch initiatives, etc in the hood that I'm from. Those are some of the initiatives at a local grassroots level to mitigate inner-city violence.

 

But how does a picnic or gun exchange program address violence under color of law?

 

C. Your point assumes that inner city civilian violence and violence perpetrated by police are principally the same. They're not. I spent the entirety of post #105 telling you why they're not.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Juror#8

[Sig1Hunter]

The Washington Post put together a relatively comprehensive breakdown of police shootings in 2015, and so far in 2016. Anyone want to venture a guess which demographic was shot the most by police? And, by a wide margin nonetheless.

 

468 white males shot by police is 2015

248 black males

[Azalin]

The Washington Post put together a relatively comprehensive breakdown of police shootings in 2015, and so far in 2016. Anyone want to venture a guess which demographic was shot the most by police? And, by a wide margin nonetheless.

 

468 white males shot by police is 2015

248 black males

 

You do realize that 468 is a much smaller percentage of white males than 248 is of black males in the US, right?

[IDBillzFan]

There is the unveiling of the "sparky." You're predictable. I'm in your head. Remember your post as when you decided to take the thread personal.

 

Yea, it was to shreds. MySpace, jdunderground, reddit, straightdope, whatever ... you said what you said and I wore your **** out. Remember that's why you tuck-tailed and stopped responding to me before. Because I would steady wear your paper mâché, weak ass arguments out. Just because it's almost two years later doesn't change the fact that your **** is still weak.

 

Remember son, I get stronger as the game goes on.

 

You're tryong to make the point that if the true concern was over violence perpetrated against blacks, then activists would be more focused on the copious numbers of murders that occur in the inner city daily as black-on-black violence.. Since activists are [ostensibly] not concerned about that, then the concern about the cop's use of excessive force must be disingenuous.

 

Problem is:

 

A. That's a non sequitur argument.

 

B. I still have folks in the inner city (my dad lives in Seat Pleasant) and there are community organizing efforts, "peace nights," symposiums with rival groups, urban picnic events, gun exchange programs for food vouchers, neighborhood watch initiatives, etc in the hood that I'm from. Those are some of the initiatives at a local grassroots level to mitigate inner-city violence.

 

But how does a picnic or gun exchange program address violence under color of law?

 

C. Your point assumes that inner city civilian violence and violence perpetrated by police are principally the same. They're not. I spent the entirety of post #105 telling you why they're not.

 

You're so busy trying to convince yourself you're winning an internet argument that you're now counting the times I tucked tail and stopped responding to you?

 

Really? OOOOOkay. You win, sport. Get yourself another gold star. You really earned that one.

 

Let me put in terms one last time so even you may be able to digest it: all the people grandstanding about the events unfolding in Baton Rouge are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people grandstanding when a white person kills a black person are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people having sit-ins in Congress for gun control when a gay muslim murders 50 people are quiet when it's black on black murder.

 

It's just that simple. They're hypocrites. They only care to push an agenda to get the votes of the black community. And they certainly don't give a flying phucksnot about what your community is doing or they'd be in there doing with with you.

 

I suspect this is where you start rambling nonsense, so as I walk away, feel free to tell all your online friends how a guy you've never met on a message board they'll never visit ran away from the crazy poster again. I'm certain you'll be the queen of the online ball this weekend.

[Sig1Hunter]

 

You do realize that 468 is a much smaller percentage of white males than 248 is of black males in the US, right?

It is? Dang. Never thought about that. You're right. It is obviously the systemic murder of black males by "the man".

[Juror#8]

You're so busy trying to convince yourself you're winning an internet argument that you're now counting the times I tucked tail and stopped responding to you?

 

Really? OOOOOkay. You win, sport. Get yourself another gold star. You really earned that one.

 

Let me put in terms one last time so even you may be able to digest it: all the people grandstanding about the events unfolding in Baton Rouge are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people grandstanding when a white person kills a black person are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people having sit-ins in Congress for gun control when a gay muslim murders 50 people are quiet when it's black on black murder.

 

It's just that simple. They're hypocrites. They only care to push an agenda to get the votes of the black community. And they certainly don't give a flying phucksnot about what your community is doing or they'd be in there doing with with you.

 

I suspect this is where you start rambling nonsense, so as I walk away, feel free to tell all your online friends how a guy you've never met on a message board they'll never visit ran away from the crazy poster again. I'm certain you'll be the queen of the online ball this weekend.

1. Thank you for the gold star. I'll wear it honorably.

 

2. It's less about me winning an argument than it is about you spouting **** that you can't support.

 

I'm just your reckoning.

 

You're a broken record repeating the same thing mindlessly that I've contradicted very effectively in toto. You're not in a position to actually debate an issue or your proffered points. You'd rather just make trendy homoerotic references that speak to your repressed desire for transgendered dick.

 

Whatever bro.

 

It's clear what took place here. Fade not-so-gracefully into the sunset and stay out of grown folks business. You're wasting my time. Walk away.

You're so busy trying to convince yourself you're winning an internet argument that you're now counting the times I tucked tail and stopped responding to you?

 

Really? OOOOOkay. You win, sport. Get yourself another gold star. You really earned that one.

 

Let me put in terms one last time so even you may be able to digest it: all the people grandstanding about the events unfolding in Baton Rouge are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people grandstanding when a white person kills a black person are quiet when it's black on black murder. All the people having sit-ins in Congress for gun control when a gay muslim murders 50 people are quiet when it's black on black murder.

 

It's just that simple. They're hypocrites. They only care to push an agenda to get the votes of the black community. And they certainly don't give a flying phucksnot about what your community is doing or they'd be in there doing with with you.

 

I suspect this is where you start rambling nonsense, so as I walk away, feel free to tell all your online friends how a guy you've never met on a message board they'll never visit ran away from the crazy poster again. I'm certain you'll be the queen of the online ball this weekend.

And for what it's worth, I actually agree with your comment about "congress" and my community.

 

I don't agree that it's disingenuous to care about over-zealous police responses while inner city violence is rampant.

[DC Tom]

 

You do realize that 468 is a much smaller percentage of white males than 248 is of black males in the US, right?

 

That makes a black male about...3 or 4 times more likely to get shot?

 

But I recall the Post's methodology being flawed anyway, with the data collection being uneven because there's no consistent reporting of police violence.

[keepthefaith]

 

You do realize that 468 is a much smaller percentage of white males than 248 is of black males in the US, right?

Yes but the raw numbers don't account for situations or opportunities. Could it be that black males are rightfully engaged by police far more often? Crime rates would strongly suggest yes.

[What a Tuel]

Do statistics like that even prove anything? How many of those 468 were justified? How many of the 248 were justified? Can we honestly say there is an agenda out there because of this though? Aren't there statistics out there that say a certain race is subject to more gun violence than others? Why is that? Does it correlate with why there are more deaths? I mean this is why there should be studies done, but they would be disregarded any which way, so I guess why bother, we will just keep the circle of hate going.

[KD in CA]

 

You do realize that 468 is a much smaller percentage of white males than 248 is of black males in the US, right?

 

Yes, but 248 out of 20 million or so black males does put the hysteria into some perspective.

 

How many of the 248 were justified?

 

According to many sources, zero. Which probably explains why some people have a hard time ginning up the required outrage when you get the rare case (like in MN) where at first glace the shooting appears unjustified. Call it the Michael Brown effect.

[Deranged Rhino]

Is that an Eagles song ?

 

 

 

No, that's when you stick roofing nails up your nose. Completely different.

 

This isn't a thread for laughter, but that's why I love this place.

[What a Tuel]

 

Yes, but 248 out of 20 million or so black males does put the hysteria into some perspective.

 

 

According to many sources, zero. Which probably explains why some people have a hard time ginning up the required outrage when you get the rare case (like in MN) where at first glace the shooting appears unjustified. Call it the Michael Brown effect.

 

I really dislike the argument of the penalty of death far outweighed the crime. Also known as "Judge, Jury, and Executioner", that is used when someone did something wrong but the police "executed" them.

 

If this is an unacceptable outcome during the commission of a crime then we the people need to redefine the use of lethal force for the Police. However despite recent cases I think the protection of our police force who are at high risk a lot of the time grants them that justification. Yes there will be mistakes. Yes they are tragedies.

 

42 police officers killed in the line of duty from gunfire in 2015. I think if we did that in reference to the number of police officers we would find it close to the very rate that everyone is also upset about.

Edited July 8, 2016 by What a Tuel