GG Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 No, you're perpetuating the myths and promoting the victim culture. No one is denying that there's a disparity in treatment. But if people spent a fraction of the time trying to address the causes and not the symptom, this wouldn't be a problem. Funny how you find a conspiracy in nearly every aspect of life, but it's beyond your self righteousness to admit that there's a large political contingent that benefits from maintaining the racial disparity.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) That certainly plays a part, but only reinforces my arguments as to the ramifications of systemically oppressing an entire segment of the population for well over 200 years. I'm not trying to debate with you that our criminal justice system doesn't have its flaws. It does. But, the public placing the majority of that blame on the street cop that is just doing his job and whose primary goal is to get home to his family at the end of the night is ridiculous. The open shouting of death threats to police officers has to stop. The notion that there is systemic, racist tendencies amongst the nations law enforcement systems is preposterous. Utilizing the recorded incident of a man getting shot as he resisted arrest while in possession of a firearm is even more preposterous. Edited July 14, 2016 by Sig1Hunter
Deranged Rhino Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) No, you're perpetuating the myths and promoting the victim culture. No one is denying that there's a disparity in treatment. But if people spent a fraction of the time trying to address the causes and not the symptom, this wouldn't be a problem. Funny how you find a conspiracy in nearly every aspect of life, but it's beyond your self righteousness to admit that there's a large political contingent that benefits from maintaining the racial disparity. I've never denied the last part. Ever. In fact, if you pay attention to what I'm saying instead of continuing to insert your own spin onto my words you'd understand that last part has been a central feature of my larger hypothesis. It depends on it. Again, the entire conversation I have been having today resulted from the unwitting hijacking of a question Sig asked. Rather than put it on Sig, because he was addressing a separate point, the question I was responding to was how some people in this country would ever think two cops would murder a citizen. I'm not trying to debate with you that our criminal justice system doesn't have its flaws. It does. But, the public placing the majority of that blame on the street cop that is just doing his job and whose primary goal is to get home to his family at the end of the night is ridiculous. I agree. The open shouting of death threats to police officers has to stop. The notion that there is systemic, racist tendencies amongst the nations law enforcement systems is preposterous. Utilizing the recorded incident of a man getting shot as he resisted arrest while in possession of a firearm is even more preposterous. I agree to a point. I think people have every right to protest the situation, and LEOs, so long as they're not doing so violently. Death threats and assault are of course well beyond the pale. Edited July 14, 2016 by Deranged Rhino
GG Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 I've never denied the last part. Ever. In fact, if you pay attention to what I'm saying instead of continuing to insert your own spin onto my words you'd understand that last part has been a central feature of my larger hypothesis. It depends on it. Again, the entire conversation I have been having today resulted from the unwitting hijacking of a question Sig asked. Rather than put it on Sig, because he was addressing a separate point, the question I was responding to was how some people in this country would ever think two cops would murder a citizen. I agree. I agree to a point. I think people have every right to protest the situation, and LEOs, so long as they're not doing so violently. Death threats and assault are of course well beyond the pale. Week you've certainly spent a lot more time explaining the institutional racism than you have examining the causes of the heavier police presence in minority communities.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 http://townhall.com/columnists/johnkass/2016/07/13/why-become-a-cop-n2192286 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sig1Hunter Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 When there is a legitimate case of police brutality, unlawful use of force...ill be there in the fight with you, DR. One of the greatest threats to me as an LEO is the dishonest LEO. However, the public response, so far, has been based largely on total ignorance. And, that drives me nuts. I can't keep my mouth shut. Probably part of the reason that I'll stay at Sergeant for the rest of my career!
Deranged Rhino Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Week you've certainly spent a lot more time explaining the institutional racism than you have examining the causes of the heavier police presence in minority communities. When that has been raised, I've discussed it. Again, you're projecting stuff and agendas onto me which just aren't true. It has nothing, zero, zilch to do with race. No race has more of a proclivity for crime or drug abuse than another. It has much more to do with poverty, powerlessness, and desperation. Which, if you haven't been paying attention, this country has done a whopper of a job disenfranchising, dis-empowering, and keeping minorities from having an equal playing field for much of its existence. Incorrect. Your bunk argument isn't worth addressing because it's inherently dishonest and racist. Crime has nothing to do with race. ...Unless you're writing legislation about sentencing. Then race plays a big role. Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture. With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely.
ALF Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) My apologies to Sig1Hunter http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23600-alton-sterling-gentle-giant-or-armed-felon I was unaware of Sterlings past that he would resist . That's why body cameras with audio are so critical so the public (like me) don't jump to the wrong conclusion. Edited July 14, 2016 by ALF
Deranged Rhino Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 When there is a legitimate case of police brutality, unlawful use of force...ill be there in the fight with you, DR. One of the greatest threats to me as an LEO is the dishonest LEO. However, the public response, so far, has been based largely on total ignorance. And, that drives me nuts. I can't keep my mouth shut. Probably part of the reason that I'll stay at Sergeant for the rest of my career! I totally understand your perspective and agree there's a lot of ignorance being passed off as fact out there on this issue.
reddogblitz Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Why is this? Because a lot of black offenders generally can't afford a high priced private attorney. They are forced to rely upon basic public defense attorneys. I believe we have reached the crux of the biscuit. While racism is part of our problems, at least as big or not bigger is how the justice system and society treats poor people. Also living with poverty makes people desperate and the law of the jungle takes over. I think that's in part what we're seeing in Chicago. When I was younger driving 20 year old Volkswagens I frequently got pulled over for headlights or tail lights out. Now that I drive a late model car this no longer happens. One of the things that got us into this position IMHO was redlining in the 30s-60s. Segregated all the blacks in one area where economic development could not happen. Present day problems are in part caused by this practice. http://www.blackpast.org/aah/redlining-1937 OJ Simpson wasn't pulled out of the Bronco and wrestled to the ground, and he had no problem getting a fair trial. The OJ trial proved the system works. A rich black man can get off just like a rich white man.
bbb Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 I was thinking tonight while walking with a lightning storm approaching - the number of blacks who have been killed in a year is almost the same as the number of people struck by lightning. Yet, I've seen this bull$hit in the past week by several tweets and the Bahama government - blacks saying their relatives won't visit them from Nigeria, etc., a hoops star saying his mom doesn't want him to drive, etc.............When the odds are the same as the lightning strike, yet they're not saying the same thing about getting killed by black neighbors, etc. when the odds are so much higher. It's the bull$hit and lack of common sense that gets me - we're doing all this for that career criminal and another one that I think we need more info on. My original question was directed at ALF's disbelief that Sterling would reach for a gun when he had two cops on top of him. The implication in his/her original statement is that it is much more believable that the cops shot him, while straddling him, without any legal justification. It's easier for some people to believe that two cops (who are equipped with body cameras and are having their every move and statement recorded) would decide to brutually murder an innocent man in full view of their cameras and the public, than a convicted felon who is looking at certain prison time to attempt escape by any means necessary. It betrays common sense. But, if your argument is that the militant black community's position is based on a complete lack of common sense, then we can agree. A position that is based in illegitimacy does not become more legitimate with more fervor, however. Yup
ALF Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 When something major like this happens I usually will watch CNN and hope to get the true story since they cover it . When I get around to research online the story changes. The real truth needs to come out faster before protests or much worse happens.
bbb Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 When something major like this happens I usually will watch CNN and hope to get the true story since they cover it . When I get around to research online the story changes. The real truth needs to come out faster before protests or much worse happens. The protesters don't care about the real truth.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 I believe we have reached the crux of the biscuit. While racism is part of our problems, at least as big or not bigger is how the justice system and society treats poor people. Also living with poverty makes people desperate and the law of the jungle takes over. I think that's in part what we're seeing in Chicago. When I was younger driving 20 year old Volkswagens I frequently got pulled over for headlights or tail lights out. Now that I drive a late model car this no longer happens. One of the things that got us into this position IMHO was redlining in the 30s-60s. Segregated all the blacks in one area where economic development could not happen. Present day problems are in part caused by this practice. http://www.blackpast.org/aah/redlining-1937 OJ Simpson wasn't pulled out of the Bronco and wrestled to the ground, and he had no problem getting a fair trial. The OJ trial proved the system works. A rich black man can get off just like a rich white man. Finally! THIS. Our problem is an economic problem not a race issue.
ALF Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) Good grief , what the police have to put up with http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/police-union-threatens-to-pull-officers-from-browns-games-after-controversial-post/ I was going to post a link to the picture but it made me too sick, very sad Police accepted his apology http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cleveland-police-union-accepts-isaiah-crowells-apology-donation-for-slain-cops/ Edited July 14, 2016 by ALF
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Good grief , what the police have to put up with http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/police-union-threatens-to-pull-officers-from-browns-games-after-controversial-post/ I was going to post a link to the picture but it made me too sick, very sad Police accepted his apology http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cleveland-police-union-accepts-isaiah-crowells-apology-donation-for-slain-cops/ They shouldn't have. They should have told him to !@#$ off, good luck.
Sig1Hunter Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 My apologies to Sig1Hunter http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23600-alton-sterling-gentle-giant-or-armed-felon I was unaware of Sterlings past that he would resist . That's why body cameras with audio are so critical so the public (like me) don't jump to the wrong conclusion. No worries, ALF. As far as the linked article, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Bob in Mich Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 I think most of the police traffic stops for tail lights being out are basically police fishing expeditions. I don't have statistics so am not really sure but I've long suspected these are a part of the war on drugs. The officer gets to shine the flashlight inside the vehicle and looks for other violations. Let's face it, a burned out tail light is not all that dangerous to the public. I am sure their in-car software could be altered to simply generate a postcard with a warning. Maybe it would be a good idea to curtail these types of stops. Might it be time to create fewer of these interactions with guns so available and officers so edgy? I am not advocating for not stopping suspicious vehicles, but perhaps it is not the best atmosphere for fishing expeditions
IDBillzFan Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 The protesters don't care about the real truth. Neither does CNN. You're simply not going to get anything but a narrative from any of the news agencies. The headlines alone make my stomach turn every morning. I've tried everything from AP to Reuters, and it simply is all a lost cause. Absolutely no one is interested in reporting the news...only what they want you to read.
meazza Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 http://www.mediaite.com/online/ebony-editor-isnt-sure-killing-white-people-should-be-considered-a-hate-crime/ Seriously...
Recommended Posts