Saxum Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/26/networks-escape-sunday-ticket-class-action/ Are Jones and Kraft funding the lawsuit? It sounds like something they would do.
Hammered a Lot Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 The only issue, as has been pointed out, the longer they wait the more it costs. The price of construction materials have not increased in the past couple of years. Union labor cost I have no clue about.
Mr. WEO Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Yeah, that's the weird thing about NFL franchises. The small market teams don't actually make a lot of money. But you can turn a tidy profit when you sell the club - especially if you move it to a better market. 40 million sure seems like more than not a lot. And what team moved and then was quickly sold?
Saxum Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 The price of construction materials have not increased in the past couple of years. Union labor cost I have no clue about. Cost of bribes and political contributions is up.
hondo in seattle Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 40 million sure seems like more than not a lot. And what team moved and then was quickly sold? $40 million profit per year on a $1.4 billion investment is emphatically not a good return. You could make much more money with your billion dollars in a number of other businesses. The idea of moving a club to increase its value is purely hypothetical. The owners who make money on the NFL, make their big money when they sell the club, not through annual operating revenues. So far, the value of clubs has been appreciating nicely over the years. Some think the whole concussion problem - combined with increased competition from other sports - could slow the appreciation down.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) $40 million profit per year on a $1.4 billion investment is emphatically not a good return. You could make much more money with your billion dollars in a number of other businesses. The idea of moving a club to increase its value is purely hypothetical. The owners who make money on the NFL, make their big money when they sell the club, not through annual operating revenues. So far, the value of clubs has been appreciating nicely over the years. Some think the whole concussion problem - combined with increased competition from other sports - could slow the appreciation down. The appreciation is the difference. If you make $40M for 10 years (profit) and sell it for the same $1.4B that you bought it for you are +$400M. It's different from other business. Pro sports teams don't sell for a 1.5-3 time multiple that other businesses do. They sell for a 30x multiple. Edited June 28, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 $40 million profit per year on a $1.4 billion investment is emphatically not a good return. You could make much more money with your billion dollars in a number of other businesses. The idea of moving a club to increase its value is purely hypothetical. The owners who make money on the NFL, make their big money when they sell the club, not through annual operating revenues. So far, the value of clubs has been appreciating nicely over the years. Some think the whole concussion problem - combined with increased competition from other sports - could slow the appreciation down. It's free money, so....always a good return. It's a no risk proposition--the organization you join by buying a team provides all of your operating costs. You keep the rest. This is like a stock that never loses value and always pays a huge annual dividend. The ROI is in the sale of the team and there is no other investment Pegula could have made instead with his 1.4 billion and gotten a greater annual increase in value. I would bet the only reason that Pegula (way) overpaid was to blow up the bottom of the market so that when he sells, he will make a killing. Why else would he pay so much?--look what it did to the valuation of the low end teams--up 50% in one year!
GG Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 It's free money, so....always a good return. It's a no risk proposition--the organization you join by buying a team provides all of your operating costs. You keep the rest. Not necessarily - a team can be in a negative cash flow position in a year when it pays up big free agent contracts. That's why Ralph put in his cash to cap policy so that he would never be cash flow negative.
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Not necessarily - a team can be in a negative cash flow position in a year when it pays up big free agent contracts. That's why Ralph put in his cash to cap policy so that he would never be cash flow negative. Hard to imagine such a scenario. Last year the lowest revenue team brought in 281 million against a cap of 143 million. That team still cleared 35 million.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Pegula will only see profit if he sells the team. Basically whatever he spent on the team and will spend on the stadium is money he will never see again.
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Pegula will only see profit if he sells the team. Basically whatever he spent on the team and will spend on the stadium is money he will never see again. Well...until he sells the team
GG Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Hard to imagine such a scenario. Last year the lowest revenue team brought in 281 million against a cap of 143 million. That team still cleared 35 million. Doesn't happen often, but is definitely a possibility for the clubs at the lower end of the revenue pile.
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Doesn't happen often, but is definitely a possibility for the clubs at the lower end of the revenue pile. It would be so rare (the lowest end of the revenue scale is twice the cap) as to be a nonexistent concern. Its a free money league if you can buy in.
billsfan89 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The league salary cap was 143.28 million so payroll at most (If you factor in let's say 20 million over that in signing bonuses and the like just to be generous) is 163.28 million. So that's 59.32 after paying the players. Of course coaches salaries, training and support staff salaries, front office salaries, and team maintenance costs (Travel, equipment, facilities, Misc costs) are going to take up a huge chunk of that. But even if all those additional costs soak up that revenue you still have your ticket sales and local revenue. And most teams don't spend to the cap let alone go well over it. Each NFL teams in terms of real profit probably is making 50+ million in raw profit per year. Good time to be in that business.
Mike in Horseheads Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Crazy to consider what this NFL really is. I miss rainy games and muddy fields. I really and truly do. and high tops, I miss those as much as the flat tops Unitas and Morrall sported. The game kinda weirds me out these days. The game doesn't "weird me out " these days but one early memory I have is the Detroit Thanksgiving game on a black and white tv and it was either raining or snowing at Tiger Stadium...that was cool in the mud. I'd say the biggest expense and future expense besides personal services is going to be liability, comp and dbl insurance. With all the lawsuit happy lawyers and for the Bills NYS Comp costs that has to be huge. I just know for the agency I'm CFO at they have got ridiculous.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The game doesn't "weird me out " these days but one early memory I have is the Detroit Thanksgiving game on a black and white tv and it was either raining or snowing at Tiger Stadium...that was cool in the mud. I'd say the biggest expense and future expense besides personal services is going to be liability, comp and dbl insurance. With all the lawsuit happy lawyers and for the Bills NYS Comp costs that has to be huge. I just know for the agency I'm CFO at they have got ridiculous. We actually insure the Saints. I'll pull it up tomorrow and try to get you the numbers.
aristocrat Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Oil was at a pretty high price when he sold that land in pa right? Or was it just starting to come down? If he had hung onto that land the value of it could be half right now. So he sells a bunch of land at a nice high price and picks up a cash flowing business instead of losing hundreds of millions in the lands value. Sometimes it just all comes together!
Mike in Horseheads Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 We actually insure the Saints. I'll pull it up tomorrow and try to get you the numbers. That will be interesting. NYS is out of control on comp costs and for the Developmental Disability agency I'm CFO at its now like 3% of payroll. So for the Bills I can only imagine Kirby. Oil was at a pretty high price when he sold that land in pa right? Or was it just starting to come down? If he had hung onto that land the value of it could be half right now. So he sells a bunch of land at a nice high price and picks up a cash flowing business instead of losing hundreds of millions in the lands value. Sometimes it just all comes together! Price point is everything and if he sold at the right time good for him. I remember when Corning Inc sunk into 1$-2$ range and I thought about buying a shitload since I live 15 miles from there and didn't take the risk. As DCTOM would say I was a idiot... Pegs wasn't with the land sales.
3rdand12 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The game doesn't "weird me out " these days but one early memory I have is the Detroit Thanksgiving game on a black and white tv and it was either raining or snowing at Tiger Stadium...that was cool in the mud. I'd say the biggest expense and future expense besides personal services is going to be liability, comp and dbl insurance. With all the lawsuit happy lawyers and for the Bills NYS Comp costs that has to be huge. I just know for the agency I'm CFO at they have got ridiculous. It weirds me out because an individual is more of a product, than just an impressively athletic player of a very intense and cool game of physical chess. Is no longer about " Win one for the Gipper " it business. I only watch Bills as it is.
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