Kirby Jackson Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) This isn't the devils advocate speaking--I really don't understand how anyone can say this guy isn't an elite coach. Or maybe I don't know what you and others mean by elite. Is it only championships? Like Gene Chizik? Larry Coker? Mack Brown? Is Les Miles, who by all accounts staved off his own execution by his employer in November still an elite coach? Saban and Meyer are great college coaches who play from stacked decks. Saban failed in the NFL, Meyer was smart enough to know it would chew him up and spit him out. Harbaugh didn't blink at his last 3 high profile challenges. He jumped into all three and has succeeded in each. His I your face behavior is ONLY noticed because of his success. If he was riding a wave of 5 consecutive non winning seasons on 2 teams and STILL running his mouth with inanities, THEN a Rex Ryan comparison mig make a bit more sense. As it is, it's so far off as to invite ridicule. I am simply obliging. You can't be considered elite without elite wins. I have asked 3 times what his best accomplishments are? So far we have an NFC championship and an orange bowl. No one is defending his wins. He's taken some bad programs and improved them but hasn't even taken them to the top of their conference. He isn't even in the conversation with Meyer or Saban. His resume doesn't stack up to even a Miles, Fisher or Swinney. He's a good coach. He's not elite. He may get there at some point but as of right now he isn't. He gets a lot of attention because he's an interesting personality. If he produces results at Michigan (which he may) that will change. At some point in the near future though he's going to have to win some games that matter. Edited June 26, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRyanFan Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Rob Ryan is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 You can't be considered elite without elite wins. I have asked 3 times what his best accomplishments are? So far we have an NFC championship and an orange bowl. No one is defending his wins. He's taken some bad programs and improved them but hasn't even taken them to the top of their conference. He isn't even in the conversation with Meyer or Saban. His resume doesn't stack up to even a Miles, Fisher or Swinney. He's a good coach. He's not elite. He may get there at some point but as of right now he isn't. He gets a lot of attention because he's an interesting personality. If he produces results at Michigan (which he may) that will change. At some point in the near future though he's going to have to win some games that matter. He did win his conference....in the NFL, where they don't determine winners with a computer or by the votes of coaches and guys who write about football games. If you think he only gets attention because he's an interesting character, and that he's not actually as good of a coach as Miles (and now Swinney!!), I can't argue with you because I really don't understand your point of view or how you can hold it the way you have explained it to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Cardale Jones is more ready than you think... If Tyrod craps the bed, Mr. Jones will have a case for a week 5 start... I would say more like if Tyrod goes out on injury. He would have to crap the bed in a monumentally, wet, stinky, ate-too-much-spicy-Mexican-food kind of way to get benched for CJ. But, at that point-- injury, or toxic, steaming pile on the bed-- yes, there would certainly be an argument for the unknown commodity that is CJ, versus the below-average, known commodity that is EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 He did win his conference....in the NFL, where they don't determine winners with a computer or by the votes of coaches and guys who write about football games. If you think he only gets attention because he's an interesting character, and that he's not actually as good of a coach as Miles (and now Swinney!!), I can't argue with you because I really don't understand your point of view or how you can hold it the way you have explained it to this point. No offense to Kirby but he also said he thinks Andrew Luck is overrated. A 1st overall pick that went back to back to back 11-5 seasons on teams with a limited amount of supporting talent around him and sorta crappy coaching. In 2014 the guy threw for 4761 yards and 40TD's to 16 INT's and did this with no dominant RB, one good WR and behind a pretty crappy O-line. The Colts need to fire the HC & GM and replace them with people who know their stuff. Just for a reference, another former 1st round overall pick in QB Alex Smith on a team loaded with talent was looking like a total bust and a completely wasted pick before Harbaugh got to SF in 2011. Alex Smith went 3-7 in 2010 and that year the Niners won only 6 games with all that talent. Harbaugh gets there and they go 13-3 in his first season with that same broken QB. The thing is that Harbaugh didn't just fix the offense and QB he also got the defense into a top five defense for three years in a row. What gets me about that is the two previous head coaches were defensive minded and couldn't get even close to those numbers. What should have happened in San Francisco is that the owner should have fired the GM and put his total support behind his winning head coach by telling the players to "shut up and listen to your coach"! When you have a GM and other front office people bad mouthing, backstabbing the head coach, then not much is going to work after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Rob Ryan is hot. fat guys do sweat alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 fat guys do sweat alot They're the reason the AC thermostat control gets locked for the rest of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Marv Was a lousy coach and the beneficiary of a great GM. With that roster there was no good reason they couldn't win championships. He owns that legacy of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 He did win his conference....in the NFL, where they don't determine winners with a computer or by the votes of coaches and guys who write about football games. If you think he only gets attention because he's an interesting character, and that he's not actually as good of a coach as Miles (and now Swinney!!), I can't argue with you because I really don't understand your point of view or how you can hold it the way you have explained it to this point. I think Swinney is absolutely as good as Harbaugh!! He's as good a recruiter and has had more success on the field. I don't think that Miles is. I said that Harbaugh's resume isn't on par with those guys (and it isn't). He won a NFC Championship with a loaded roster. He has like 12 Pro Bowers. He had the best team in the league and finished 2nd. Congrats on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) I think Swinney is absolutely as good as Harbaugh!! He's as good a recruiter and has had more success on the field. I don't think that Miles is. I said that Harbaugh's resume isn't on par with those guys (and it isn't). He won a NFC Championship with a loaded roster. He has like 12 Pro Bowers. He had the best team in the league and finished 2nd. Congrats on that Swinney needs a title but is definitely approaching the elite tier. He nearly beat Saban in the title game and already beat Urban in a bowl. Les Miles, even with his title from 9 years ago, has done the least with most talent in the last 5 years or so. He can recruit with the best of them but he has seriously underachieved. Edit: Urban's recruiting classes this year and 2017 are so ridiculously good that I will say he also underachieved if he doesn't get another title in the next 2-3 years. He has 14 commits with 3 5-star kids already for 2017. This will be the building year and whether or not Barrett returns (he should? But the QBs lining up behind him are veeeeery intriguing) they will underachieve if they don't make the CFB playoff at least in 2017. IMO! Edited June 26, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 No offense to Kirby but he also said he thinks Andrew Luck is overrated. A 1st overall pick that went back to back to back 11-5 seasons on teams with a limited amount of supporting talent around him and sorta crappy coaching. In 2014 the guy threw for 4761 yards and 40TD's to 16 INT's and did this with no dominant RB, one good WR and behind a pretty crappy O-line. The Colts need to fire the HC & GM and replace them with people who know their stuff. This is the unpopular opinion thread. Luck drew comparisons to Manning and some all-time greats. I don't think that he is a top 5 QB right now. I think that he is good but overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Swinney needs a title but is definitely approaching the elite tier. He nearly beat Saban in the title game and already beat Urban in a bowl. Les Miles, even with his title from 9 years ago, has done the least with most talent in the last 5 years or so. He can recruit with the best of them but he has seriously underachieved. Edit: Urban's recruiting classes this year and 2017 are so ridiculously good that I will say he also underachieved if he doesn't get another title in the next 2-3 years. He has 14 commits with 3 5-star kids already for 2017. This will be the building year and whether or not Barrett returns (he should? But the QBs lining up behind him are veeeeery intriguing) they will underachieve if they don't make the CFB playoff at least in 2017. IMO! They have as many 2017 5 stars as the entire SEC right now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Marv Was a lousy coach and the beneficiary of a great GM. With that roster there was no good reason they couldn't win championships. He owns that legacy of failure. I don't know if I would say lousy but not very good. Incredibly overrated for sure and a major disadvantage to the organization when matched up with the likes of Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson......guys who knew how to build hard-nosed teams that peaked at playoff time. Marchibroda got the bickering Bills over the hump. Without TM Marv would have been fired during the 1990 season because the unravelling of 1989 was carrying over and would have lead to a continuation of the blowout in the opener at Miami. Turning to TM's no-huddle....as he had wanted Marv to do from the start of the 1990 season....... energized the team and gave them an identity and once they were there the players ran the asylum and they loved Marv because he was the substitute teacher that knew he couldn't control the class so he just gave them what they wanted. Soft camps and practices for example. They self policed to avoid being beset with a new "taskmaster" of a HC and Marv did his part acting like he had it under control/meant-to-do-that to the media. That soft treatment cost them in the SB's........and sometimes even earlier in the playoffs.......specifically the sorry excuse for a finish to the 1991 season that was the AFC Championship game vs Denver and the SB vs. Washington........a disorganized, undisciplined team totally NOT peaking at the right time or ready to battle lesser talented but more tenacious opponents. Their return to four straight SB's was definitely in part due to Club Marv.........because the teams that were actually winning those SB's were paying a much steeper price physically during the regular season and the postseason to reach the SB in the first place. Those return trips were in vain though because they were never anywhere near as prepared for a dogfight as the 4 opponents they lost to. People act like those other teams were just a little more talented and that wasn't the case at all. The Bills had weaknesses at NT and S but it wasn't a lack of talent as much as a lack of toughness compared to their counterparts. The AFC was weaker and paralyzed at the site of the Bills talent......teams regularly played beneath themselves against the Bills and the regular season cakewalks.....or the weeks off they took on road trips to KC or Pittsburgh or LA for instance........didn't help the Bills toughen up. In less contentious regular season conditions, where the NFC opponent also had less time to prepare.......the Bills essentially swept the NFC off the field. But when it got too tough for the Bills it was just right for those NFC opponents.........and it shouldn't have been that way. I will say this though.........knowing that his coaching staff wasn't capable of raising the intensity of the players he provided......Polian could have imported some tougher players to play those positions of weakness and they might have been able to have won some of those SB's in spite of their issues......he was good but also overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Why does he need to do these things? Michigan is supposed to be an elite program. Recruits from LA are going to go there because their coach wore a Kobe jersey to a satellite camp? I remain shaking my head at having to go to these levels. Sell your program, clown. That should be enough. Yet the media laps it up with a spoon. http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/6/25/12031792/jim-harbaugh-is-still-pandering-to-recruits-with-hometown-jerseys Yes I know this is unpopular that's why it's in this thread! Edited June 26, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Why does he need to do these things? Michigan is supposed to be an elite program. Recruits from LA are going to go there because their coach wore a Kobe jersey to a satellite camp? I remain shaking my head at having to go to these levels. Sell your program, clown. That should be enough. Yet the media laps it up with a spoon. http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/6/25/12031792/jim-harbaugh-is-still-pandering-to-recruits-with-hometown-jerseys Yes I know this is unpopular that's why it's in this thread! I heard Urban drive-by'd a mofo to get Aaron Hernandez on the dotted line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 After this years 7-9 season Pegula should eat Rex's contract and make Greg Roman HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Rex Ryan will go down as the Bills' worst coaching hire since Hank Bullough. When his tenure as a Bills ends, we will compare Charles Clay's stint here to Quinn Early's. Sammy Watkins will catch 100 passes this year. Jason Simpson was the real killer. After venturing over to the PPP Board...my fellow Bills fans are political nutbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 They have as many 2017 5 stars as the entire SEC right now!!@landgrant33Ohio States 2017 recruiting class could be one of the most selective and elite in history http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2016/6/26/12024468/ohio-state-recruiting-elite-best-class-ever-i-dunno-maybe?utm_campaign=landgrantholyland&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 @landgrant33 Ohio States 2017 recruiting class could be one of the most selective and elite in history http://www.landgrantholyland.com/2016/6/26/12024468/ohio-state-recruiting-elite-best-class-ever-i-dunno-maybe?utm_campaign=landgrantholyland&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter The kicker is the kid from Canisius High School. I think that the last OSU recruit from WNY was Doug Worthington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Tyrod Taylor's career will end up looking a lot like Bob Griffin's. yeah........both highly touted coming out of school. Both major disappointments thus far. they couldn't be more opposites to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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