FireChan Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Except their contracts aren't guaranteed so it really doesn't work that way. It's been set that the contract doesn't mean anything. If the teams don't have to honor them they players shouldn't have to either. The contract doesn't mean anything to the employer. Not the employee. Those are the terms agreed to, and they should honor them. Or, just shut up instead of acting like they're indentured servants. I'm not saying I agree with it. Just sayin'. You don't see baseball players, hockey players or basketball players do it. What's the main difference? Now, if you were referring to college football head coaches, you'd have a point. Guaranteed contracts would all but destroy the NFL, not to mention I'm not in the habit of rewarding bad behavior. Edited June 24, 2016 by FireChan
KD in CA Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 I'm not saying I agree with it. Just sayin'. You don't see baseball players, hockey players or basketball players do it. What's the main difference? Marvin Miller met Curt Flood and not Jim Brown. Now football owners are too smart a group to let it happen. But I agree, you can't expect one without the other. Players have to earn their money in the NFL and so when they have the leverage like Von Miller they will use it.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) The contract doesn't mean anything to the employer. Not the employee. Those are the terms agreed to, and they should honor them. Or, just shut up instead of acting like they're indentured servants.They are terms that BOTH sides agreed to. If they were guaranteed like in the other sports you wouldn't see it. You don't hear about holdouts there. They live with the terms that were negotiated. In the NFL the negotiated terms don't matter, just the guaranteed money matters. If teams are going to get out of contracts that they don't like, the players are too. EDIT: I don't think that guaranteed contracts would work in the NFL with the injuries. With that being said we can't be mad when the players exercise their leverage. It's the cost of doing business. Edited June 24, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
KD in CA Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 I'm talking about right now. Not 3 years from now. If he wins something meaningful other than media attention and offseason hype, then I won't compare him to Rex anymore. But if he doesn't win the big 10 this year vs in 3 years, isn't that a disappointment for Michigan fans? This is the big 10 you know. They need to beat 2 teams. I don't even think they have a tough out of conference game. This is the year they should have no problem doing that if he's any good. It could be this year, I'm saying one of the next 3. Michigan was losing to I-AA teams a few years ago so if you're already putting them in the mix with OSU and MSU as the only legit teams in the Big10, I'd say that shows Harbaugh's impact already.
FireChan Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 They are terms that BOTH sides agreed to. If they were guaranteed like in the other sports you wouldn't see it. You don't hear about holdouts there. They live with the terms that were negotiated. In the NFL the negotiated terms don't matter, just the guaranteed money matters. If teams are going to get out of contracts that they don't like, the players are too. Are they? Explain to me Kirby why when a team walks away, it's kaputs. But when a player tries to walk away, they get hammered with fines and all these other things? I'll tell you why. Because the NFLPA set terms that the teams are ALLOWED to walk away when ever. And the players are not. Period.
YoloinOhio Posted June 24, 2016 Author Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) It could be this year, I'm saying one of the next 3. Michigan was losing to I-AA teams a few years ago so if you're already putting them in the mix with OSU and MSU as the only legit teams in the Big10, I'd say that shows Harbaugh's impact already. He did have some impact. Just hasn't won anything and is a clown. My unpopular opinion isn't that he's not a good coach. It's that I see him as the Rex Ryan of CFB. A giant eye roll. If he wins something meaningful I won't see him that way anymore. Edited June 24, 2016 by YoloinOhio
snafu Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 Guaranteed contracts would all but destroy the NFL, not to mention I'm not in the habit of rewarding bad behavior. I doubt guaranteed contracts are anywhere in the NFL's future, so you can sleep easy. My only point was that the bad behavior you complain about wouldn't exist if the contracts were guaranteed.
FireChan Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 I doubt guaranteed contracts are anywhere in the NFL's future, so you can sleep easy. My only point was that the bad behavior you complain about wouldn't exist if the contracts were guaranteed. I'm sure there's a criminal we could pay to stop committing crimes, too.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Are they? Explain to me Kirby why when a team walks away, it's kaputs. But when a player tries to walk away, they get hammered with fines and all these other things? I'll tell you why. Because the NFLPA set terms that the teams are ALLOWED to walk away when ever. And the players are not. Period. You are arguing that contracts aren't agreed to by both sides?
snafu Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 I'm sure there's a criminal we could pay to stop committing crimes, too. You're going to make it into a crime metaphor? Okay then he probably wouldn't be a criminal if he had an income he could rely on and a boss who didn't just throw him away when he got injured doing his job. Again, I'm not saying that I agree with holdouts, etc. I do get that it may be the only leverage that football players have, other than free agency.
KD in CA Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 He did have some impact. Just hasn't won anything and is a clown. My unpopular opinion isn't that he's not a good coach. It's that I see him as the Rex Ryan of CFB. A giant eye roll. If he wins something meaningful I won't see him that way anymore. I think he's an excellent motivator and probably a very good recruiter, which is key in college ball even more than Xs and Os. And he did get within 5 yards of a SB title. Trust me, I won't be rooting for him!
FireChan Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 You are arguing that contracts aren't agreed to by both sides? I am arguing that the teams are allowed, through contract language and structure, to terminate them at any time. Is it a coincidence an NFL team has never been sued for wrongful firing? It's at-will employment, the same as millions of other jobs in America. It's what they AGREE to. This is a tangent however. I'm more arguing that players are whiny babies even, as you say, they just get on the same level as the team. "This business is cold" says the disgruntled vet abandoning his teammates and coaches to quibble over some money. Nah, screw that.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 You're going to make it into a crime metaphor? Okay then he probably wouldn't be a criminal if he had an income he could rely on and a boss who didn't just throw him away when he got injured doing his job. Again, I'm not saying that I agree with holdouts, etc. I do get that it may be the only leverage that football players have, other than free agency. I 100% agree with them and I 100% agree to cutting under performers with the system in place. The market is what it is and players exercise leverage just like teams do. You can find a player all that you want for holding out but it doesn't make your team any better if the guy isn't there. Holding a hard line hurts you in recruiting and retaining your own free agents. It is just a cost of doing business. If a player out performs his contract expect to re-do it or risk losing his services. If a player underperforms he will be cut and not getting that salary.
FireChan Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 You're going to make it into a crime metaphor? Okay then he probably wouldn't be a criminal if he had an income he could rely on and a boss who didn't just throw him away when he got injured doing his job. Again, I'm not saying that I agree with holdouts, etc. I do get that it may be the only leverage that football players have, other than free agency. My metaphor was better.
YoloinOhio Posted June 25, 2016 Author Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) I think he's an excellent motivator and probably a very good recruiter, which is key in college ball even more than Xs and Os. And he did get within 5 yards of a SB title. Trust me, I won't be rooting for him! I agree on recruiting over Xs and Os in college, but moreso on development of the recruits once they get there. Hoke could recruit but was terrible at development. Harbaugh is much better at development. I'm not taking his NFL background into my opinion but he didn't win anything there either. As painful as it is buckeye fans have to root for Michigan every week except the last. The better they are, the better it looks for us in the eyes of the committee. Osu wants to play an undefeated Michigan every year. In fact, as funny as that ending vs MSU was last year, if they had won that game like they were supposed to then Osu would have gone to the big 10 title game even after losing to MSU. All they had to do was punt! Edited June 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio
Nihilarian Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Andrew Luck is the most overrated player in the NFL. Not when he had Bruce Arians as his coach and now a world of difference in Indy for Andrew. He will be the richest tackling dummy in the NFL. Chuck Pagano the most overrated HC in the NFL today and his GM Ryan Grigson is right there with him. How they both still have jobs is a wonder in itself.
3rdand12 Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Bills win Super Bowl This year. Lol See? You are finally coming around.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Not when he had Bruce Arians as his coach and now a world of difference in Indy for Andrew. He will be the richest tackling dummy in the NFL. Chuck Pagano the most overrated HC in the NFL today and his GM Ryan Grigson is right there with him. How they both still have jobs is a wonder in itself. Hey, it's the unpopular opinion thread. I think that he turns the ball over too much and hasn't won as many big games in college and the NFL as I think someone of his talent should. Peyton was the same way in college.
3rdand12 Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Not when he had Bruce Arians as his coach and now a world of difference in Indy for Andrew. He will be the richest tackling dummy in the NFL. Chuck Pagano the most overrated HC in the NFL today and his GM Ryan Grigson is right there with him. How they both still have jobs is a wonder in itself. And Lucks new contract will still screw us. If we have to pay TT and i hope we do. Lucks Contract will likely be the new richest one. yay.. Stupid Colts
Recommended Posts