Augie Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 My favorite thing about Harbaugh is the story of him breaking his hand on Jimbo's head. That gives me a chuckle every time I think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) You must not keep up on recruiting. The OSU 2017 class has 14 commitments that are all 4 or 5 star except the kicker (from Buffalo). Only one team ever has done that. They also have as many 5 star commitments as the entire SEC for 2017. That has nothing to do with this year. OSU and MSU lost a lot, Michigan didn't. They are ranked 3rd here in the unofficial post spring practice rankings http://campusinsiders.com/news/post-spring-projected-ap-top-25-college-football-rankings-05-11-2016 & 5th here http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-power-rankings-a-post-spring-look-at-the-nations-top-teams/. Michigan was a 1.5 point favorite against OSU (with Harbaugh) last year and was beaten by 29. The Harbaugh is overrated crowd would say that his team was a 1.5 point favorite because people overrate the Harbaugh effect. They rolled out there and got pounded. UM will be a preseason top 5 team and the highest ranked Big 10 team in the country. They go to MSU and to OSU. There is a pretty good chance that their record since 2008 goes to 2-16 (0-4 under Harbaugh). If (big if) that happens where would you stand then? At what point do you have to beat your rivals? At what point do you have to play in the Rose Bowl and not the Citrus Bowl? Neither MSU nor OSU at this point would be happy with a Citrus Bowl win. A preseason top 5 team shouldn't consider that success either. The expectation is that Michigan will be in the thick of the playoff race this year. Haurbaugh has only been at UM for one season, right? Why do I feel like you're referring to him like he's been there for 5 years and hasn't sniffed a win against OSU? If Harbaugh beats OSU this year, will he still be overrated? Edited June 27, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Haurbaugh has only been at UM for one season, right? Why do I feel like you're referring to him like he's been there for 5 years and hasn't sniffed a win against OSU? If Harbaugh beats OSU this year, will he still be overrated? I'm counting Stanford as well. He had Andrew Luck and his best win was an Orange Bowl vs. Va Tech. It's a fact that he doesn't have a lot of great wins there. He lost to Oregon the year that his team was 11-1. That was the biggest game of the year. Last year his team was a 1.5 point favorite, at home, vs. their arch rival and got beat by 29. He had arguably the most talented team in the NFL for 2 or 3 years and went to 1 Super Bowl (and lost). If he is to be considered elite, as you contend, he needs eite wins. His "big game" record isn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Harbaugh may also be the Phillip Rivers of CFB. Expecting his 7th child. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Harbaugh may also be the Phillip Rivers of CFB. Expecting his 7th child. I guess she'll do anything to get him out of those pants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I don't have time to scroll through this whole thread but didn't somebody say that Fred Jackson, in his prime, was as good as Thurman Thomas in his prime? Or was that just like a dream I had? Thurman played behind a good line on a good offense. He had a HOF QB and a HOF WR (sometimes two) drawing attention away from him. And as you know, the TE was pretty good too. Fred played behind a crap line on a talent-poor offense. In both 2009, and 2010, PFF ranked him Freddy of the top 4 most elusive backs in the NFL because he broke tackles and got his yards on his own. In fact, 76% of the yards Fred got in 2009 running outside the tackles came after contact (#1 in the NFL - in comparison, Adrian Peterson earned 64% of his yards after contact). Fred's 2,516 combined yards in 2010 is 5th most in NFL history. Thurman averaged 4.2 yards per carry over his career, playing on good teams. In his best year, he averaged 4.9. Freddy average 4.4 yards per carry over his career, playing on bad teams. In his best year, he averaged 5.5. Both Fred and TT were good out of the backfield. Fred was probably better at blitz pickup. If Fred played in the early 90s instead of Thurman - and stayed healthy - he'd be in the HOF too. https://www.profootballfocus.com/the-elusive-rating/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/elusive-rating-2010/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/between-the-tackles-part-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 I guess she'll do anything to get him out of those pants!and keep him from creepy teenage sleepovers with recruits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Most "fans" wouldn't bother going to the stadium on Sundays if there wasn't any alcohol sold in the stadium or permitted outside it. Wow them's fighting words but, I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Unpopular Opinion: Bills fans are NOT the most knowledgeable in the NFL. Maybe once-upon-a-time we were, but the Internet has made everyone's brains soft. This based on the constant Hot Takes that are rooted solely in opinion stated as fact. But I still love you. Most of you... I don't know which team would have THE smartest fans, but we're up there. Once in a while, I'll go on the Jets, Dolphins, or Patriots* forums to get a bead on their opinions. Good God! Pats* fans especially seem to have only a basic knowledge of the game (with exceptions, of course) and will become utterly unhinged with any realistically negative opinion regarding their team. But, recently, as I am a resident of Los Angeles (born and raised in Rochester), I've been following the Rams a bit, with the intention of making them being my "second team" as it were. (And, my son is an LA native.) So, I've been going on some Rams' fan sites. And, wow... Seriously. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Thurman played behind a good line on a good offense. He had a HOF QB and a HOF WR (sometimes two) drawing attention away from him. And as you know, the TE was pretty good too. Fred played behind a crap line on a talent-poor offense. In both 2009, and 2010, PFF ranked him Freddy of the top 4 most elusive backs in the NFL because he broke tackles and got his yards on his own. In fact, 76% of the yards Fred got in 2009 running outside the tackles came after contact (#1 in the NFL - in comparison, Adrian Peterson earned 64% of his yards after contact). Fred's 2,516 combined yards in 2010 is 5th most in NFL history. Thurman averaged 4.2 yards per carry over his career, playing on good teams. In his best year, he averaged 4.9. Freddy average 4.4 yards per carry over his career, playing on bad teams. In his best year, he averaged 5.5. Both Fred and TT were good out of the backfield. Fred was probably better at blitz pickup. If Fred played in the early 90s instead of Thurman - and stayed healthy - he'd be in the HOF too. https://www.profootballfocus.com/the-elusive-rating/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/elusive-rating-2010/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/between-the-tackles-part-2/ First, let me say that I love Fred Jackson and think the world of the man. Freddy only really had three solid years of playing and only one, one thousand yard season. Fred never did play a full sixteen game season either as the starting RB. Fred played nine seasons in the NFL and he never was really healthy long enough to be that rock solid starter needed with only three years with over 200 carries. By comparison, Thurman had 9 seasons with over 200 carries with 5 of those close to 300 carries and 2 seasons of over 300 carries. In his 12 years in Buffalo, he had eight 1000 yard seasons. His sixteen thousand yards from scrimmage in 12 years is more than double Freddy's 8,643 in 8 years. What a lot of people don't know about Thurman Thomas is that he played injured every game of every year in his career. He had played on bad ankles in college and that stayed with him all throughout his NFL career. He would tape them up and take a shot, then go out and play. Let's not forget the kid who kept Barry Sanders on the bench at Oklahoma St, and his head coach with the State Cowboys was Jimmy Johnson. Thurman Thomas was in a class by himself and had other teams QB's like the Miami Dolphins Dan Marino and Denver's John Elway both stating that they wished that had a RB with Thurman's talent on their teams. I'm counting Stanford as well. He had Andrew Luck and his best win was an Orange Bowl vs. Va Tech. It's a fact that he doesn't have a lot of great wins there. He lost to Oregon the year that his team was 11-1. That was the biggest game of the year. Last year his team was a 1.5 point favorite, at home, vs. their arch rival and got beat by 29. He had arguably the most talented team in the NFL for 2 or 3 years and went to 1 Super Bowl (and lost). If he is to be considered elite, as you contend, he needs eite wins. His "big game" record isn't good. Jeez Kirby, Harbaugh took over a freaking 1-11 team in 2006 that was a complete trainwreck and got them to a 12-1 record with an Orange Bowl win over VT in four years! I'd say that's a pretty big win. Let's also not forget that he recruited Andrew Luck and developed him into the QB he is today. Now because he didn't win a super bowl with the 49ers he is not as good as some of those other coaches? Not a lot of college coaches have come into the NFL and had the success he had so quickly. I can only dream the Buffalo Bills find a head coach as good as Harbaugh to take the Bills to a 13-3 record his first year and go to a super bowl in only his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Pegs: "I want a major clearout, starting with a new GM. Russ, round up a list of GM candidates." Team is f#^**# unless Pegs wakes up. he will get us there one way or another I guess she'll do anything to get him out of those pants! First, let me say that I love Fred Jackson and think the world of the man. Freddy only really had three solid years of playing and only one, one thousand yard season. Fred never did play a full sixteen game season either as the starting RB. Fred played nine seasons in the NFL and he never was really healthy long enough to be that rock solid starter needed with only three years with over 200 carries. By comparison, Thurman had 9 seasons with over 200 carries with 5 of those close to 300 carries and 2 seasons of over 300 carries. In his 12 years in Buffalo, he had eight 1000 yard seasons. His sixteen thousand yards from scrimmage in 12 years is more than double Freddy's 8,643 in 8 years. What a lot of people don't know about Thurman Thomas is that he played injured every game of every year in his career. He had played on bad ankles in college and that stayed with him all throughout his NFL career. He would tape them up and take a shot, then go out and play. Let's not forget the kid who kept Barry Sanders on the bench at Oklahoma St, and his head coach with the State Cowboys was Jimmy Johnson. Thurman Thomas was in a class by himself and had other teams QB's like the Miami Dolphins Dan Marino and Denver's John Elway both stating that they wished that had a RB with Thurman's talent on their teams. Jeez Kirby, Harbaugh took over a freaking 1-11 team in 2006 that was a complete trainwreck and got them to a 12-1 record with an Orange Bowl win over VT in four years! I'd say that's a pretty big win. Let's also not forget that he recruited Andrew Luck and developed him into the QB he is today. Now because he didn't win a super bowl with the 49ers he is not as good as some of those other coaches? Not a lot of college coaches have come into the NFL and had the success he had so quickly. I can only dream the Buffalo Bills find a head coach as good as Harbaugh to take the Bills to a 13-3 record his first year and go to a super bowl in only his second season. Preach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Figured I'd leave this here. Seems appropriate. I mean, who does **** like this?! https://twitter.com/BillsFanaticsBF/status/747606902939389952 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Figured I'd leave this here. Seems appropriate. I mean, who does **** like this?! https://twitter.com/BillsFanaticsBF/status/747606902939389952 i will need to check my calendar for my availability but sounds legit IMO. RSVPd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Thurman played behind a good line on a good offense. He had a HOF QB and a HOF WR (sometimes two) drawing attention away from him. And as you know, the TE was pretty good too. Fred played behind a crap line on a talent-poor offense. In both 2009, and 2010, PFF ranked him Freddy of the top 4 most elusive backs in the NFL because he broke tackles and got his yards on his own. In fact, 76% of the yards Fred got in 2009 running outside the tackles came after contact (#1 in the NFL - in comparison, Adrian Peterson earned 64% of his yards after contact). Fred's 2,516 combined yards in 2010 is 5th most in NFL history. Thurman averaged 4.2 yards per carry over his career, playing on good teams. In his best year, he averaged 4.9. Freddy average 4.4 yards per carry over his career, playing on bad teams. In his best year, he averaged 5.5. Both Fred and TT were good out of the backfield. Fred was probably better at blitz pickup. If Fred played in the early 90s instead of Thurman - and stayed healthy - he'd be in the HOF too. https://www.profootballfocus.com/the-elusive-rating/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/elusive-rating-2010/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/between-the-tackles-part-2/ Anyone who wishes to insist a guy who couldn't even make an NFL roster until his late 20s was somehow better at the sport than a guy in canton is delusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If Fred played in the early 90s instead of Thurman - and stayed healthy - he'd be in the HOF too. There's big "IFs" ... and then there's this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I'm counting Stanford as well. He had Andrew Luck and his best win was an Orange Bowl vs. Va Tech. It's a fact that he doesn't have a lot of great wins there. He lost to Oregon the year that his team was 11-1. That was the biggest game of the year. Last year his team was a 1.5 point favorite, at home, vs. their arch rival and got beat by 29. He had arguably the most talented team in the NFL for 2 or 3 years and went to 1 Super Bowl (and lost). If he is to be considered elite, as you contend, he needs eite wins. His "big game" record isn't good. If the playoff system existed when he was at Stanford, his final team with Luck would have been in the playoffs. You keep saying that he had the most talented team in the NFL, yet his QBs were Smith and Kaep--and he still walked into SF and went to 3 straight NFCC years..... after they had not been to the playoffs in 9 years. Put another way, he took that "most talented team" from 6-10 to the NFCC game as soon as he got there. Marv Levy had a totally stacked team and lost every SB they led him to. And then they put him in the HOF. OSU is ranked #6 in the same preseason poll that has Michigan in the top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 There's big "IFs" ... and then there's this. This is the difference between great players and good ones. No one needs to make excuses for Thurman Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If the playoff system existed when he was at Stanford, his final team with Luck would have been in the playoffs. You keep saying that he had the most talented team in the NFL, yet his QBs were Smith and Kaep--and he still walked into SF and went to 3 straight NFCC years..... after they had not been to the playoffs in 9 years. Put another way, he took that "most talented team" from 6-10 to the NFCC game as soon as he got there. Marv Levy had a totally stacked team and lost every SB they led him to. And then they put him in the HOF. OSU is ranked #6 in the same preseason poll that has Michigan in the top 5. And 18 in the other. Also, a big MAYBE on the playoffs. We have yet to see a conference have 2 teams. I don't believe that they would have been given the same chance as a team that already beat them that year. I agree on Marv not being able to win with a stacked group. Harbaugh is good but not great. That's my whole point. When I get some time later today I will take his 3 biggest games every year as a HC and figure out his record. I'd bet that it isn't .500. He's also only played on the biggest stage 1 time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 You must not keep up on recruiting. The OSU 2017 class has 14 commitments that are all 4 or 5 star except the kicker (from Buffalo). Only one team ever has done that. They also have as many 5 star commitments as the entire SEC for 2017. That has nothing to do with this year. OSU and MSU lost a lot, Michigan didn't. They are ranked 3rd here in the unofficial post spring practice rankings http://campusinsiders.com/news/post-spring-projected-ap-top-25-college-football-rankings-05-11-2016 & 5th here http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-power-rankings-a-post-spring-look-at-the-nations-top-teams/. Michigan was a 1.5 point favorite against OSU (with Harbaugh) last year and was beaten by 29. The Harbaugh is overrated crowd would say that his team was a 1.5 point favorite because people overrate the Harbaugh effect. They rolled out there and got pounded. UM will be a preseason top 5 team and the highest ranked Big 10 team in the country. They go to MSU and to OSU. There is a pretty good chance that their record since 2008 goes to 2-16 (0-4 under Harbaugh). If (big if) that happens where would you stand then? At what point do you have to beat your rivals? At what point do you have to play in the Rose Bowl and not the Citrus Bowl? Neither MSU nor OSU at this point would be happy with a Citrus Bowl win. A preseason top 5 team shouldn't consider that success either. The expectation is that Michigan will be in the thick of the playoff race this year. U Buff at 102. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 And 18 in the other. Also, a big MAYBE on the playoffs. We have yet to see a conference have 2 teams. I don't believe that they would have been given the same chance as a team that already beat them that year. I agree on Marv not being able to win with a stacked group. Harbaugh is good but not great. That's my whole point. When I get some time later today I will take his 3 biggest games every year as a HC and figure out his record. I'd bet that it isn't .500. He's also only played on the biggest stage 1 time. Good, but not great yet is a far cry from "the Rex Ryan" of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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