Police Shamelessly cite Terrorism in Patrolling Private Lots

[Billschinatown]

so.... Just like you?

and you; but i think only one of us understands that.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Billschinatown

[mrags]

and you; but i think only one of us understands that.

no. You already said I'm above the law. So I'll just keep going with that.

[Billschinatown]

as a law enforcement officer I'm sure I'll just get labeled a racist or pos or something else but you weren't there and you have no idea of the severity of the situation. Just because the woman says he was calmly reaching for his ID doesn't mean it's true. Just because you didn't see a weapon doesn't mean one wasn't there. And just because the individual seemed like a good person doesn't make it so.

 

Until civilians walk in the shoes of law enforcement with people all around trying to break the law, etc... You don't have a clue. Anyone can Monday morning qb a situation and find wrong doing or another way out. But at the time the officer felt like his life or the lives of innocent people were on the line and he acted.

 

Does that mean there aren't pos cops out there? Sure, unfortunately we only hear about them. Not the good ones that truly are super heroes.

 

Say whatever you want. I'm done with this one.

 

Who is implying who isn't a civilian? God i hope i'm never in a situation where my life depends on explaining something complex to you.

 

There's also another comment where you call certain cops super heroes.

 

I have news for you friend. You're all just regular people. Just like burger flippers. Just like cubicle workers. This is the heart of a problem. You forgot you're one of us. That occasionally do great things. That occasionally do horrible things. Just like regular people.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Edited July 9, 2016 by Billschinatown

[atlbillsfan1975]

 

wait...you think terrorists are going to attack a private parking lot of a sporting event over the public lots or the event itself?

Maybe, maybe not. But I would rather have them confronted in the parking lot then already in the stadium. It could mean a huge difference in loss of life. Think about it this way, if the Terrorists who attacked the airports had made it onto planes, how many more would of died? I don't want anyone to die. When dealing with people like terrorists you have to think about how do we minimize the incident. Sorry if it means a few people get busted for drugs or disorderly conduct. Those people are usually a bunch of knuckleheads that I don't want to sit around in a game.

[jimmy10]

Given the proxmity to the longest unprotected border in the world, I think it's a good move.

[mrags]

 

Who is implying who isn't a civilian? God i hope i'm never in a situation where my life depends on explaining something complex to you.

 

There's also another comment where you call certain cops super heroes.

 

I have news for you friend. You're all just regular people. Just like burger flippers. Just like cubicle workers. This is the heart of a problem. You forgot you're one of us. That occasionally do great things. That occasionally do horrible things. Just like regular people.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

yeah. I watched the movie about the Stanford Experiment just like you did and I find it to be completely bull crap. But then again, I work in a prison and I see what goes on daily and you watch Lock Up and assume what your seeing is the daily way of life inside a prison.

 

Also, the "prisoners" in the Stanford Experiment weren't real criminals. Had they have been real criminals they most likely would have fought back. Instead they just went on assuming they were part of an experiment and were treated wrongly by some 19 year old power hungry idiots.

 

Trust me, try that stuff with actual murderers and gang members like in a real prison and you won't be getting away with it.

 

But what do I know, I don't work in one of the most notorious prisons in U.S. History.

[3rdand12]

yeah. I watched the movie about the Stanford Experiment just like you did and I find it to be completely bull crap. But then again, I work in a prison and I see what goes on daily and you watch Lock Up and assume what your seeing is the daily way of life inside a prison.

 

Also, the "prisoners" in the Stanford Experiment weren't real criminals. Had they have been real criminals they most likely would have fought back. Instead they just went on assuming they were part of an experiment and were treated wrongly by some 19 year old power hungry idiots.

 

Trust me, try that stuff with actual murderers and gang members like in a real prison and you won't be getting away with it.

 

But what do I know, I don't work in one of the most notorious prisons in U.S. History.

It has hardened you. As one might suspect it could.

But it is good to have your perspective added into the mix on these matters.

Edited July 9, 2016 by 3rdand12

[mrags]

It has hardened you. As one might suspect it could.

But it is good to have your perspective added into the mix on these matters.

that it has. I have a hard time being bothered by things that would probably make many others throw up. And I can do it while eating lunch. I won't speak of details here.

 

And thank you for understanding that 3rd

Edited July 9, 2016 by mrags

[3rdand12]

that it has. I have a hard time being bothered by things that would probably make many others throw up. And I can do it while eating lunch. I won't speak of details here.

 

And thank you for understanding that 3rd

You are quite welcome.

[yungmack]

The history of policing has always been about faithful service to whatever was the Establishment of the time, from the local Lord, the king, or the rich and powerful of today. Their job is always to preserve that power by keeping "the peasants" in line,to ensure those with the real power have peace of mind, and a safe and pleasant life. So long as you don't threaten that status quo, so long as you obey the rules of the powerful, their minions will generally leave you alone.

 

Unfortunately, if you do threaten the powerful, as did, for example, those who tried to organize into unions (a direct threat to the Establishment), you will be faced with the full force of the powerful, which, in the case of their "muscle," the local police, meant beatings and, not infrequently, death.

 

If you belong to a group that is regarded by the powerful as being Other, you will be treated as suspicious ,threatening and thus more heavily and harshly patrolled by the "authorities." At different times, these groups have included the Irish, the Italians, the Slavs, Catholics, Jews, Chinese. All these groups are still treated with suspcion and even hostility in different parts of the country, and in some circles of the powerful.You will be kept in a particular part of town "with your own kind" by laws, by banking "understandings," by CC&Rs, and by the police, until your group has enough power to take control of the levers of power (and of the banks, and courts, and the police, who then do your bidding).

 

But from the very first colonial days, there has been one group seen as irrevocably outsiders, as permanently inferior, and as an irredeemable "threat within," and that is black people. New World slavery differed from historical slavery in that it had become unthinkable to enslave fellow white people who were, after all, Christians and "civilized." Africans, however, were seen as savages and regarded as sub-humans, far behind in evolution, so it was okay to round them up like stray cattle. And from the beginning, there was fear among the powerful that they would rise up and murder their "masters." Being viewed as both innately violent sub-humans AND with justifiable grievances has meant being consistently policed harshly, forced into special zones, and punished severely at the slightest sign of of "uppitiness." And historically, the tip of the Establishment's spear has been the police. And just so, the anger, hatred and violence of blacks has been directed at the police.

 

Meanwhile, the authors of this situation, the rich and powerful, remain above the fray. They get to tsk tsk the behavior of the police (as if they weren't doing their bidding!), set up commissions, punish a cop here and there and, in the end, making sure that those who threaten their way of life remain constrained though under more acceptable disguises, such as "preventing terrorism." That's the current false front of The Establishment for the wholesale assault on the Constitution and our rights. That's the excuse given for recording all our phone calls, emails, purchases, google searches, plane flights, etc. And it is the excuse they use to crush, for example, the 4th Amendment, the excuse they use to enter private property during which - surprise! - they find signs of other sorts of "troubling behavior," the sorts of things "our betters" don't care for.

 

Those who fall back on the excuse of "So long as you're not breaking the law, who cares what the cops do?" are complicit in the destruction of the rights of everyone by their sniveling subservience. You are the ones good old Ben Franklin warned us about when he said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." And that is precisely what is off-putting about "patrolling" private property with the reprehensible excuse that it is about keeping us all safe from the "terrorists" when it is the police and the Establishment they represent who are the greatest threat to our freedoms, our way of life and, yes, to our very lives themselves.

Edited July 9, 2016 by yungmack

[klos63]

as a law enforcement officer I'm sure I'll just get labeled a racist or pos or something else but you weren't there and you have no idea of the severity of the situation. Just because the woman says he was calmly reaching for his ID doesn't mean it's true. Just because you didn't see a weapon doesn't mean one wasn't there. And just because the individual seemed like a good person doesn't make it so.

 

Until civilians walk in the shoes of law enforcement with people all around trying to break the law, etc... You don't have a clue. Anyone can Monday morning qb a situation and find wrong doing or another way out. But at the time the officer felt like his life or the lives of innocent people were on the line and he acted.

 

Does that mean there aren't pos cops out there? Sure, unfortunately we only hear about them. Not the good ones that truly are super heroes.

 

Say whatever you want. I'm done with this one.

And if the officer is wrong and kills an innocent person, what should be done? And would you openly support punishment?

 

BS- we have 'feel good' stories all the time.

[mead107]

The history of policing has always been about faithful service to whatever was the Establishment of the time, from the local Lord, the king, or the rich and powerful of today. Their job is always to preserve that power by keeping "the peasants" in line,to ensure those with the real power have peace of mind, and a safe and pleasant life. So long as you don't threaten that status quo, so long as you obey the rules of the powerful, their minions will generally leave you alone.

Unfortunately, if you do threaten the powerful, as did, for example, those who tried to organize into unions (a direct threat to the Establishment), you will be faced with the full force of the powerful, which, in the case of their "muscle," the local police, meant beatings and, not infrequently, death.

If you belong to a group that is regarded by the powerful as being Other, you will be treated as suspicious ,threatening and thus more heavily and harshly patrolled by the "authorities." At different times, these groups have included the Irish, the Italians, the Slavs, Catholics, Jews, Chinese. All these groups are still treated with suspcion and even hostility in different parts of the country, and in some circles of the powerful.You will be kept in a particular part of town "with your own kind" by laws, by banking "understandings," by CC&Rs, and by the police, until your group has enough power to take control of the levers of power (and of the banks, and courts, and the police, who then do your bidding).

But from the very first colonial days, there has been one group seen as irrevocably outsiders, as permanently inferior, and as an irredeemable "threat within," and that is black people. New World slavery differed from historical slavery in that it had become unthinkable to enslave fellow white people who were, after all, Christians and "civilized." Africans, however, were seen as savages and regarded as sub-humans, far behind in evolution, so it was okay to round them up like stray cattle. And from the beginning, there was fear among the powerful that they would rise up and murder their "masters." Being viewed as both innately violent sub-humans AND with justifiable grievances has meant being consistently policed harshly, forced into special zones, and punished severely at the slightest sign of of "uppitiness." And historically, the tip of the Establishment's spear has been the police. And just so, the anger, hatred and violence of blacks has been directed at the police.

Meanwhile, the authors of this situation, the rich and powerful, remain above the fray. They get to tsk tsk the behavior of the police (as if they weren't doing their bidding!), set up commissions, punish a cop here and there and, in the end, making sure that those who threaten their way of life remain constrained though under more acceptable disguises, such as "preventing terrorism." That's the current false front of The Establishment for the wholesale assault on the Constitution and our rights. That's the excuse given for recording all our phone calls, emails, purchases, google searches, plane flights, etc. And it is the excuse they use to crush, for example, the 4th Amendment, the excuse they use to enter private property during which - surprise! - they find signs of other sorts of "troubling behavior," the sorts of things "our betters" don't care for.

Those who fall back on the excuse of "So long as you're not breaking the law, who cares what the cops do?" are complicit in the destruction of the rights of everyone by their sniveling subservience. You are the ones good old Ben Franklin warned us about when he said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." And that is precisely what is off-putting about "patrolling" private property with the reprehensible excuse that it is about keeping us all safe from the "terrorists" when it is the police and the Establishment they represent who are the greatest threat to our freedoms, our way of life and, yes, to our very lives themselves.

i think you are reaching a bit. Union busting was a big problem. Gangs of to day nothing like unions. Patrolling private property when people sell parking spots I do not consider private.

And if the officer is wrong and kills an innocent person, what should be done? And would you openly support punishment?

 

BS- we have 'feel good' stories all the time.

You saying cops don't get punished? They have been punished in Schenectady and Albany including jail time

[mrags]

And if the officer is wrong and kills an innocent person, what should be done? And would you openly support punishment?

 

BS- we have 'feel good' stories all the time.

in these cases, the officer was justified as both men had weapons and were resisting to the officers orders.

 

But yes, I would support punishment. If the situation was right. I do all the time.

[Augie]

How have we stepped from patrolling private lots to cops killing people?

 

We travelled for a college football game with friends in a rental van (to hold the big crowd). The driver had a heavy foot and was often pulled over. When it happened on this trip I reached for the glove box for the rental agreement and he shut me down. "Don't give them any reasons!" I realized he was right and have lived by that ever since. Sure, almost all the people they encounter are reasonable, but you never know which one is the "crazy" one. Cops are regular people, in a REALLY difficult job. If you make a mistake at the bank, or the factory, it rarely results in death. It's like playing Jack-In-The Box, cops never know when it's going to pop. I don't condone abuse, but wish people realized the pressure they are under. (And I fully realize that some personalities do it entirely for the power.)

 

My uncle Leonard was a cop and shot and killed by a guy they were trying to get back to the hospital. The guy got the gun from the other cop and shot him. Full disclosure. Cops deal with regular people, but they never know who will be the crazy.

[klos63]

in these cases, the officer was justified as both men had weapons and were resisting to the officers orders.

 

tBut yes, I would support punishment. If the situation was right. I do all the time.

That's refreshing, and unusual for a fellow officer.

 

As far as justified, I'll say all the facts aren't in. And if they were justified, there is a problem. As far as I know the man in the car legally had his gun.

How have we stepped from patrolling private lots to cops killing people?

 

We travelled for a college football game with friends in a rental van (to hold the big crowd). The driver had a heavy foot and was often pulled over. When it happened on this trip I reached for the glove box for the rental agreement and he shut me down. "Don't give them any reasons!" I realized he was right and have lived by that ever since. Sure, almost all the people they encounter are reasonable, but you never know which one is the "crazy" one. Cops are regular people, in a REALLY difficult job. If you make a mistake at the bank, or the factory, it rarely results in death. It's like playing Jack-In-The Box, cops never know when it's going to pop. I don't condone abuse, but wish people realized the pressure they are under. (And I fully realize that some personalities do it entirely for the power.)

 

My uncle Leonard was a cop and shot and killed by a guy they were trying to get back to the hospital. The guy got the gun from the other cop and shot him. Full disclosure. Cops deal with regular people, but they never know who will be the crazy.

It seems, for the most part, this pressure comes about only when dealing with black people. The other day, a white guy shot at a cop and was not fired upon. Can't imagine that happening to a black guy.

[mead107]

261 people shot by cops out of 488 were white. Media forgets to mention that. It's not just black people getting shot.

[machine gun kelly]

Guys, this thread started about police going into private lots and using terrorism as an excuse, when even the dullest knife knows it was about the bad PR from some fans going bananas in the partying.

 

The discussion is getting elevated because of the horrible shootings in two cities,,and then the atrocity in Dallas. Most police officers are very decent people including many of my family members. I'm sorry about what happened to those citizens in MN and NO and even more horrified about what happened to all of those officers whose families lost their dad, husband, son, etc.

 

I really can't believe how many people hate the police. If you're a law abiding person, you usually hardly ever deal with them except to say hello at the gas station, etc.

 

I'm certainly thankful of the police to watch out for my kids, and family when it is needed, but I don't break the law and act with respect for these guys. They may be at my house someday because of a break in.

Oh, and I still don't like them going onto the lots. It's a BS argument motivated by politicians and probably the Bills organization. Police the streets and make sure people don't leave drunk hurting someone.

[klos63]

Guys, this thread started about police going into private lots and using terrorism as an excuse, when even the dullest knife knows it was about the bad PR from some fans going bananas in the partying.

 

The discussion is getting elevated because of the horrible shootings in two cities,,and then the atrocity in Dallas. Most police officers are very decent people including many of my family members. I'm sorry about what happened to those citizens in MN and NO and even more horrified about what happened to all of those officers whose families lost their dad, husband, son, etc.

 

I really can't believe how many people hate the police. If you're a law abiding person, you usually hardly ever deal with them except to say hello at the gas station, etc.

 

I'm certainly thankful of the police to watch out for my kids, and family when it is needed, but I don't break the law and act with respect for these guys. They may be at my house someday because of a break in.

Oh, and I still don't like them going onto the lots. It's a BS argument motivated by politicians and probably the Bills organization. Police the streets and make sure people don't leave drunk hurting someone.

you're sorry about the black guys getting killed, but horrified about the cops, and their families. What about the families of the dead black guys. They lost a dad, son, husband... too. I'm horrified about all those incidents.

261 people shot by cops out of 488 were white. Media forgets to mention that. It's not just black people getting shot.

Lot more white people in this country, and the issue is that many have the impression that the shootings of many of the blacks aren't justified. I don't see much outrage over justifiable police shootings, black or white.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, on a somewhat different subject. Shooting statistics are not accurate. A republican congress made it illegal for the gov't to spend any money on gun violence research. Independent groups try to maintain stats, but likely not totally accurate.

[mead107]

It still boils down to people being azzholes. Don't matter pink , purple, blue, or green azzholes are azzholes.

Let's just say that 90 percent are justified. Police hold back and you see a spike in cops being killed. Do you get upset? Or are you one of the people that want more cops shot? Almost 6000 people kill this year by being shot. Are you up set I've that?

[mrags]

That's refreshing, and unusual for a fellow officer.

 

As far as justified, I'll say all the facts aren't in. And if they were justified, there is a problem. As far as I know the man in the car legally had his gun.

 

It seems, for the most part, this pressure comes about only when dealing with black people. The other day, a white guy shot at a cop and was not fired upon. Can't imagine that happening to a black guy.

it was justified because even if the guy was legally permitted to own a gun he was not permitted to conceal carry and as someone that is registered to conceal carry, it would take the biggest of idiots to carry their weapon in their lap when being pulled over by the police. At the very least it was a terrible judgment call by Castillo. One that cost him his life.

 

We don't know the story as the only video leaked is the one from his girlfriend that is proven to be riddled with lies, or if you believe she didn't know, misinformation. But the officer in the video (after the actual shooting) is standing there stating that Castillo did not listen to his requests to show his hands. And that's all the officer knew at this point.